Logical proof that God exists

[black friday]

my dad donest belive in god nor evelotion, he says theres no prove to anything, and he says he doesnt wanna get involved with myths.

 

[Xjaa]

literally speaking in order for something to not exist the idea must exist therefore ruining your argument.

 

[Shredderbeam]

literally speaking in order for something to not exist the idea must exist therefore ruining your argument.

First, I'm not arguing that God doesn't exist.

Second, the idea of a square circle exists. Does that change the fact that such a thing is logically impossible? No, it doesn't.

 

[jtwmsh1]

i don't think i understand what you mean....

also, doesnt the christian God want you to believe in him based on faith (aka some guys heard voices and wrote it down in a book they called the bible)

 

[doggy_dog108]

Shredder mind if I post my own opinion on how we were created here?

It's a little more scientific and is not related to god whatsoever...

Don't read if you don't want to,here it is...




In the beginning of time,there was a huge cluster of dark matter,dust,gases and everything in between held up by an unknown force...the force that held it all together gave up and the whole thing exploded...Don't think of it as a big explosion...

It might seem like a colosal amount of time untill we formed but don't think of it that way,think of it like a bomb in the ground,exploding,throwing up dirt.
On that "dirt" (planets) we formed due to the verry rapid climate change,atmospheric changes and so on... We all evolved our different ways and now we live on this planet we call earth.

We all look at the universe as "big" but HOW do we know that the universe is infact big? Maybe we are just verry small on this infinite scale of sizes,there is not limit to how big or small an object can be so we have no way to know wether we are the big or the tiny ones on this scale.
I think us humans are really small and the universe is small compared to something unknown outside of it too due to the fact that us humans have captured "the smallest thing" in the universe : dark matter. It's the thing that makes the night black,the outerspace black and probably even when you close your eyes,you see black because of it,due to the fact that it passes thru everything,every molecule,every solid or liquid object due to it's small size...

So in retrospective,we might be just the result of a small explosion of something that's part of something Much much much more larger... Our lifetimes are just infant compared to the universe let alone what is on the other side of it,that is why we probably never will find our origin,the universe would just "Expire" untill we find it...

I think about it as an explosion that lasts "under a minute" in "our time" (our time since us humans have a rather small timescale due to short lifespand) and the debree (planets) are bound to either hit something beyond the universe later on or just stop existing.
I also believe that the universe isn't expanding,but the galaxies themselves are constantly moving,thrown away by that explosion billions of years ago,but still kept together by gravity...

That's my opinion we are insignificant to this thing called universe let alone what's outside of it... that's why we must live life and enjoy it instead of praying 24/7 to something that we don't even know exists called God like some monks choose to do,starving themselvs and going thru intense pain for this God just to proove theyr worthy of his so called Heaven.

It can.



Incorrect statement. We use 100% of our brains.



Logic is based on truth. 2 + 2 = 4, a square circle is logically impossible, etc.



You won't find too many people arguing about whether or not existence exists. If you have read all my posts, you should know that that is what I'm proving the existence of.



Careful.



First, I don't believe in the God you're talking about. I believe that existence exists. What you call it is another matter.



Do I detect flaming?



Yes, I do.

You completely butchered my logic. Completely.



Good.



I hope you realize that you cannot know that for certain.



It's likely true, but this does not make my argument logically invalid.

Also, pay attention to the type of God I am proving the existence of, which is one stripped of all attributes except for existence. What would any other person call that? Existence. Good job at reading my previous posts.



I disagree.



That depends on how you define God.



I may not have come up with it, but that doesn't make my argument logically invalid.

1) We DO only use 5-10% of our brains for thinking,look it up
2) Logic is something US HUMANS have created,2+2=4 is a mesurment WE humans created and use on a daily basis,but does it have any relevance to this universe? do planets use math? lol.
3) I agree out of an infinity of posibilities,there might be 1 God just like out of an infinity of posibilities there is only 1 unique human beeing (there isn't one just like you for example,that looks like,acts like and does the same things you do) but if he/she does infact exist,he or she does not want us to know about him due to the fact that this can cause lies :
If you KNOW christmass is coming and "santa" is watching you,you act all nice and stuff to recieve various gifts,similar to how some act to get into heaven but in truth they are just bad inside.

 

[Shredderbeam]

i don't think i understand what you mean....

also, doesnt the christian God want you to believe in him based on faith (aka some guys heard voices and wrote it down in a book they called the bible)

The Christian God does, yes, but we're not talking about the Christian God.

us humans have captured "the smallest thing" in the universe : dark matter. It's the thing that makes the night black,the outerspace black and probably even when you close your eyes,you see black because of it,due to the fact that it passes thru everything,every molecule,every solid or liquid object due to it's small size...

You're thinking of neutrinos, probably. Dark matter is a type of matter detected in the center of galaxies. It's called dark because we cannot physically detect it.

The night sky is dark because light scatters. Also, the light from the other stars within range of us is not sufficient to illuminate the sky.

we must live life and enjoy it

We don't have to. If God does not exist, then there is no higher purpose to life. Once you're dead, that's it. It won't matter what sort of life you'll have lived.

instead of praying 24/7 to something that we don't even know exists called God like some monks choose to do,starving themselvs and going thru intense pain for this God just to proove theyr worthy of his so called Heaven.

If God exists, then that does not necessarily mean that we must pray to him. It also does not necessarily mean that there is an afterlife.

1) We DO only use 5-10% of our brains for thinking,look it up

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

Hey, look, first link from Google.

If you mean just for thinking, then fair enough, but he had said that we only use 10% of our brains, period.

2) Logic is something US HUMANS have created,2+2=4 is a mesurment WE humans created and use on a daily basis,but does it have any relevance to this universe? do planets use math? lol.

Things in this universe operate according to certain rules. Throw a rock in the air, watch it fall in a parabolic arc. If there are two trees over there, and two over here, then there are four total. Star nuclear fusion reactions happen in accordance with certain equations. Objects bounce off other objects at angles that are certain.

If you KNOW christmass is coming and "santa" is watching you,you act all nice and stuff to recieve various gifts,similar to how some act to get into heaven but in truth they are just bad inside. __________________

If people do that to get into heaven, they are idiotic. Unless, of course, they believe in that type of God.

 

[islapfatties]

a VERY important thing to read is that its not impossible for god to exist which makes it all come together.

 

[nucbot]

Sigh, logic can't prove that God exist or not. It is in your heart if you believe him or not. By the way, yes... God does exist.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Sigh, logic can't prove that God exist or not.

That certainly depends on how you define God.

 

[danielt0]

God gives us purpose To life.
without God why do we live
what is this temporary life worth?
why not suicide now to shift into mere existence.

When we wake up in the morning and see such an intelligently created world with DNA and nature + 1000's of arguements just like a well made painting we ponder at imaginging who made it.

We will never understand God because if we did he would not be God
his ways are far above our ways.

the scary thing is,
the very fact you woke up this morning is because God has purpose for you!

Lastly i leave you with this Bible Verse:
Romans 1:20 ''For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that MEN are without excuse.

God loves you and sent his son for you
are you reday to accept his love?

 

[Shredderbeam]

God gives us purpose To life.
without God why do we live
what is this temporary life worth?
why not suicide now to shift into mere existence.

Why shouldn't we kill ourselves? Well, life is ultimately pointless, but it's something. In 60 or 70 years, I'll be dead anyway, so why not stick around?

When we wake up in the morning and see such an intelligently created world with DNA and nature + 1000's of arguements just like a well made painting we ponder at imaginging who made it.

I sincerely hope that you're not trying to make an argument for Intelligent Design here.

We will never understand God because if we did he would not be God

If we understand God, does that strip him of power? I think not.

You can have knowledge without understanding, by the way.
his ways are far above our ways.

the scary thing is,
the very fact you woke up this morning is because God has purpose for you!

That IS quite scary. It implies that we don't have free will.

Lastly i leave you with this Bible Verse:
Romans 1:20 ''For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that MEN are without excuse.

We are without excuse? We still seem to be able to come with some.

 

[Gekkostate]

1) We DO only use 5-10% of our brains for thinking,look it up
2) Logic is something US HUMANS have created,2+2=4 is a mesurment WE humans created and use on a daily basis,but does it have any relevance to this universe? do planets use math? lol.

I personally am an Atheist. So do not hesitate to say that god doesn't exist. Before you counter, I will tell you a few things that I have noticed throughout my life. Humans tend to take comfort when they imagine a higher force that can protect them. They also take pleasure in creating figures of imagination that can do what humans cannot. Remind me how Superman came to being... Oh someone with a good imagination made him. X Ray vision and Super strength? Not exactly something your next door neighbor has.

Yay 2 People that have somewhat similar opinions to what i have posted, and yet again since shredder was disproven on it, he did not come up with another reply to it. Oh and shredder i'm 100% sure that i wasn't flaming, it was a hypothetical situation whereas if you could disrpove me, then you have disproven yourself. I in no way butchered your completely wrong logic, i used the same concept on a different idea using basicaly the same wording so that the main idea of the concept was still present.

THE SITUATION WAS HYPOTHETICAL, and with you all uptight on how you're able to create hypothetical ideas i was sure it would get through to you but apparently did not, and for you not to be able to notice it, i feel sorry for you, really i do.

Thanks for power-abusing and sending me a warning or something, i dunno it said it was from Shredderbeam and said something about a warning or infraction so i didn't bother reading it. So is this how it always goes? someone owns your ideas so you power-abuse to try and scare them off.

THAT'S A BRILLIANT WAY TO WIN YOU 'INTELLIGENT DISCUSSIONS'

 

[Shredderbeam]

Yay 2 People that have somewhat similar opinions to what i have posted, and yet again since shredder was disproven on it, he did not come up with another reply to it.

I did make a response. Here it is:

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

Hey, look, first link from Google.

If you mean just for thinking, then fair enough, but he had said that we only use 10% of our brains, period.

Oh and shredder i'm 100% sure that i wasn't flaming, it was a hypothetical situation whereas if you could disrpove me, then you have disproven yourself.

No, it was flaming.

I in no way butchered your completely wrong logic, i used the same concept on a different idea using basicaly the same wording so that the main idea of the concept was still present.

The logic only works on "necessary" things. It in no way applied to me, as I think you know.

THE SITUATION WAS HYPOTHETICAL, and with you all uptight on how you're able to create hypothetical ideas i was sure it would get through to you but apparently did not, and for you not to be able to notice it, i feel sorry for you, really i do.

What got through to me was that you don't seem to understand the logic.

Thanks for power-abusing and sending me a warning or something, i dunno it said it was from Shredderbeam and said something about a warning or infraction so i didn't bother reading it. So is this how it always goes? someone owns your ideas so you power-abuse to try and scare them off.

No, I just warn/infract people who flame.

Now, about this "owning of my ideas"? Good sir, please elaborate. I don't remember you ever proving me wrong. All you did was some rant about how logic isn't perfect, or something.

Now, stay on topic.

 

[jebckr]

How is it a paradox?

"a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth."

Right, it's not evidence. It's proof.

You can't prove God's existance one way or the other. PERIOD

Not really. I have yet to lose when bringing up this argument.

In your mind

Actually, no. It only applies to existence, for existence is the only thing that is "necessary". How could anything else be necessary.

God's existence does not necessarily relate to the general idea of existence.

That's not my argument at all. There are two situations. A., God exists. B., he doesn't.

If B applies, and he does not exist, then his existence is impossible. By impossible, I mean logically impossible. Yet, the concept of God has no logical contradictions, so this cannot be the case!

The concept of God might not have logical contradictions in your mind, but in my mind it can. And by God, you mean what?

"Some definitions of God's existence are so non-specific that it is certain that something exists that meets the definition; in stark contrast, there are suggestions that other definitions are self-contradictory."

 

[Shredderbeam]

"a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth."

Yet that does not fit my logic. It does not seem self-contradictory/absurd to the logical mind, and doesn't express a possible truth. It expresses the truth.

You can't prove God's existance one way or the other. PERIOD

I refer you to the first post on page 1.

In your mind

Well, you've hardly been there. In each and every one, my opponents, at the end, were unable to come up with a successful counter-argument. In each and every one, my opponents admitted that I was right. I think I won in more than just my mind.

God's existence does not necessarily relate to the general idea of existence.

If God exists, then existence exists. Why? Because for anything to exist, existence must exist.

The concept of God might not have logical contradictions in your mind, but in my mind it can. And by God, you mean what?

By God, I mean literally anything, stripped of all attributes except for existence.

 

[Walk On Home]

Your mind and your logic are not necessary, so neither is god.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Your mind and your logic are not necessary, so neither is god.

I never claimed that they were necessary. The only thing that is truly necessary is God as I have defined him.

 

[Walk On Home]

...Which is why your mind and your logic are not necessary.
God is the primary necessary being in existence, by your definition, which is contradicted by the fact that you are not necessary, so neither is your logic.

 

[jtwmsh1]

4). If God does not exist, he necessarily does not exist.

If God does not exist, he cannot exist.

your a flaming idiot.

a good example to desecrate your logic are the elements that did not exist naturally, but were created in a lab. they did not exist. now they do. how can something exist if it cant exist?

PWNED

 

[Shredderbeam]

...Which is why your mind and your logic are not necessary.
God is the primary necessary being in existence, by your definition, which is contradicted by the fact that you are not necessary, so neither is your logic.

My mind is not a "necessary" thing. My logic, however, is strictly based on rules that exist. 2 + 2 = 4, a square circle is impossible, etc.

Logic is based on tautologies, you know. It's something that always exists, no matter what.

a good example to desecrate your logic are the elements that did not exist naturally, but were created in a lab. they did not exist. now they do. how can something exist if it cant exist?

Good job. You came up with the same reasoning as person after person did before you. Have a cookie.

The only truly necessary thing is God, stripped of all attributes but existence. So, take your "pwned", and go elsewhere.