LeBron or Michael?

I agree partly, I think if the Heat win this year and Lebron continues to play like he is playing, it will be hard to pick Jordan over Lebron when the number say otherwise. Only thing about Jordan is that he never lost in the finals, where Lebron and Kobe both have.

Also Kobe is my favorite player but he isn't top 3 all time, people always forget the great centers that played, I have Kareem and Bill Russell above Kobe.

I do agree that MJ was more clutch...so far. LeBron will hopefully step up that facet of his game.

 

[Busta305]

I do agree that MJ was more clutch...so far. LeBron will hopefully step up that facet of his game.

Yea, Lebron needs to win this year, if the Heat lose then I think Lebron won't be in the same conversation as Jordan or even Kobe anymore. I also think the Spurs have a good chance at beating them this year, but we'll see.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

Do you realize you have contributed nothing to this thread? A diva? Overpaid?

He is the most underpaid athlete for the skills he has. He's on his way for a 3 peat...How is he over paid? And to your 'diva' comment, not too sure if any NBA star is a diva except for Kris Humphries.



He would get the same amount of calls that superstars get now a days.

I do agree that it's more ticky tacky but there is still very physical play. People are getting thrown to the ground and everything still with no calls.

Where do you get the opinions of high basketball IQ? Most high caliber players are the ones with the high IQ. LeBron, Kobe, KD, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc. Those guys are all crazy IQ levels. Also, why are you bringing the one and dones into this? Where did I ever state that one and dones were good for the league and were successful? The comments you made are invalid to this discussion.

The reason teams outside of those you named don't have a shot at the title is because the superstars of this league and their teams take advantage and shut them down. I would say every playoff team has a legitimate shot because they are all there for a reason. They may have a shitty record but that's because of different factors such as injuries, strength of schedule, etc.

All in all, the league has much more developed players now than they did back then. There were 3-4 teams that were good back then but now you've got a 10 high quality teams that can play with just about anyone. What teams you ask?

1. Heat
2. OKC
3. Spurs
4. Indiana
5. LA Clippers
6. Golden State Warriors
7. New York Knicks
8. Dallas Mavericks
9. Portland Trailblazers
10. Chicago Bulls
11. Washington Wizards
12. LA Lakers (they were trash this year but normally very good playoff team)
13. Houston Rockets
14. Phoenix Suns

Some of those teams you could argue but all those teams are legit playoff teams that have high quality players. Each of those teams have at least one guy that could stick up with past 'legends' and may not be worth too much at this day and age.

LOL! So anything I say that you don't know how to interpret is "invalid". Well, okay then.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that list of teams you made is laughable. The Knicks? REALLY? The Knicks? You literally lost all credibility right there by putting the freaking Knicks in a list of "good" teams.

The league DOES NOT have more developed players!! That's my whole goddamn point about the one and done. That means weaker competition, that means Lebron has it easier. That means it's relevant to the topic. Jesus. Reading comprehension 101 man. It's not that difficult to understand. Idk how many ways I can say it that make it any easier to understand. I get you disagree with it, that's fine. But don't say my arguments are "invalid" just because you're skewing them for your own argument.

And no, the reason these teams don't have a shot outside of those 4 of getting a title is simple..they aren't that good! The entire eastern conference aside from Miami and Indiana is GARBAGE! The Western Conference has more promise but even teams like the Trailblazers got whooped by the big boys. The Pacers themselves aren't even that good, I simply put them in there to give you the idea that it's a 4 team league.

You're severely over-appraising these other teams "superstars". Like I said, they have better stats cuz most nights you're playing a similarly garbage basketball team.

Jordan played in the Golden Age of Hoops. The collective talent of that league was greater. Isiah Thomas didn't even make the 92 dream team!! You're putting so much stock in physicality it's psychotic...you act as if Michael Jordan only ate ramen noodles and is easier to break than a twig.

LASTLY, everybody in 2014 NBA seems like they want to be friends with each other. Real rivalries are incredibly rare in today's NBA. This severely waters down the competition because you don't have the legitimate bad blood you had in the 90's. So there goes most of your physicality argument right there. You can't honestly convince me the NBA is more physical nowadays, because physicality is not allowed to be fully used....and players don't legitimately hate each other like they did in the 90's and early 2000's. It's all, mostly, a love fest nowadays.

So basically it seems like you're telling me not only Lebron is better than MJ..but basically any new age guy is better than an old guy cuz he's allegedly much stronger and physical. So you're telling me Blake Griffin wouldn't get owned by Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing? Plz....plz sir plz tell me that's not true.

 

[Lorenzo]

@ Bartons

He ruined his own legacy when he left Cleveland and had to go team up with two superstars to even win a championship. He doesn't have the numbers or the rings yet to even come close to Michael. The game was so much more physical when Michael was playing you could actually foul. Also I would take Kobe to hit a game winner or Michael over Lebron. He just isn't a leader and doesn't have that will to win. How about in a close out game in Indiana he was pathetic he shouldn't have even come to the game. Look at his stats in closing out games or elimination games he is no where worthy being called better then Michael

 

LOL! So anything I say that you don't know how to interpret is "invalid". Well, okay then.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that list of teams you made is laughable. The Knicks? REALLY? The Knicks? You literally lost all credibility right there by putting the freaking Knicks in a list of "good" teams.

The league DOES NOT have more developed players!! That's my whole goddamn point about the one and done. That means weaker competition, that means Lebron has it easier. That means it's relevant to the topic. Jesus. Reading comprehension 101 man. It's not that difficult to understand. Idk how many ways I can say it that make it any easier to understand. I get you disagree with it, that's fine. But don't say my arguments are "invalid" just because you're skewing them for your own argument.

And no, the reason these teams don't have a shot outside of those 4 of getting a title is simple..they aren't that good! The entire eastern conference aside from Miami and Indiana is GARBAGE! The Western Conference has more promise but even teams like the Trailblazers got whooped by the big boys. The Pacers themselves aren't even that good, I simply put them in there to give you the idea that it's a 4 team league.

You're severely over-appraising these other teams "superstars". Like I said, they have better stats cuz most nights you're playing a similarly garbage basketball team.

Jordan played in the Golden Age of Hoops. The collective talent of that league was greater. Isiah Thomas didn't even make the 92 dream team!! You're putting so much stock in physicality it's psychotic...you act as if Michael Jordan only ate ramen noodles and is easier to break than a twig.

LASTLY, everybody in 2014 NBA seems like they want to be friends with each other. Real rivalries are incredibly rare in today's NBA. This severely waters down the competition because you don't have the legitimate bad blood you had in the 90's. So there goes most of your physicality argument right there. You can't honestly convince me the NBA is more physical nowadays, because physicality is not allowed to be fully used....and players don't legitimately hate each other like they did in the 90's and early 2000's. It's all, mostly, a love fest nowadays.

So basically it seems like you're telling me not only Lebron is better than MJ..but basically any new age guy is better than an old guy cuz he's allegedly much stronger and physical. So you're telling me Blake Griffin wouldn't get owned by Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing? Plz....plz sir plz tell me that's not true.

I won't argue every point you had right there cause I already adressed it but what I'm saying is that the guys now are so imposing physically and athletically I'm not sure if guys back then could've gotten off the shots they did. Not everyone can jump over 35 inches in the air. Almost every player now a days, besides a center can jump that high to alter shots.

I would take the past Olympic teams over the 92' team. LeBron, Kobe, KD, Chris Paul, James Harden, etc.

 

@ Bartons

He ruined his own legacy when he left Cleveland and had to go team up with two superstars to even win a championship. He doesn't have the numbers or the rings yet to even come close to Michael. The game was so much more physical when Michael was playing you could actually foul. Also I would take Kobe to hit a game winner or Michael over Lebron. He just isn't a leader and doesn't have that will to win. How about in a close out game in Indiana he was pathetic he shouldn't have even come to the game. Look at his stats in closing out games or elimination games he is no where worthy being called better then Michael

I said above that MJ is more clutch than LBJ at this point.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

@ Bartons

He ruined his own legacy when he left Cleveland and had to go team up with two superstars to even win a championship. He doesn't have the numbers or the rings yet to even come close to Michael. The game was so much more physical when Michael was playing you could actually foul. Also I would take Kobe to hit a game winner or Michael over Lebron. He just isn't a leader and doesn't have that will to win. How about in a close out game in Indiana he was pathetic he shouldn't have even come to the game. Look at his stats in closing out games or elimination games he is no where worthy being called better then Michael

He won't listen lol.

Honestly, my whole point was that it's actually impossible to compare MJ to Lebron, because the league is

1: Officiated differently
2: Distribution of talent non-existent (something he seems to vehemently disagree with, but it's pretty obvious when you have the same recycled teams over and over again in the playoffs, or teams that are 38-44 making the playoffs who have no business being there).
3: Stats will be different because competition is inherently different.

You put a gun to my head and make me choose I'm choosing Jordan.

 

[Lorenzo]

He shouldn't even be in the same conversation as Michael right now. I can name at least 5 people I would take over Lebron right now. Magic, Michael, Kobe, Kareem, Russell, Chamberlin. That's 6. Lebron isn't even a top 5 conversation at this point he has a lot more proving to do.

 

He won't listen lol.

Honestly, my whole point was that it's actually impossible to compare MJ to Lebron, because the league is

1: Officiated differently
2: Distribution of talent non-existent (something he seems to vehemently disagree with, but it's pretty obvious when you have the same recycled teams over and over again in the playoffs, or teams that are 38-44 making the playoffs who have no business being there).
3: Stats will be different because competition is inherently different.

If it's so impossible to compare the 2, why are you stating facts and such...? Obviously the 2 can be compared because you have been doing it.

1. Athleticism is greater now, can't deny that.
2. Reason teams are 38-44 is because they are playing Heat, Pacers, etc. You can't have 10 teams with 72-19, impossible to conquer right there.
3. Stats are much different since most teams have 2-3 high quality players that are allstar caliber.

No need to get all upset and irritated, I'm enjoying seeing other insight and you have some very good insight.

 

[Lorenzo]

Athleticism maybe greater now but you can't even play basketball anymore everything is a foul you can't hardly touch anyone so players maybe more athletic but they're not better.

 

He shouldn't even be in the same conversation as Michael right now. I can name at least 5 people I would take over Lebron right now. Magic, Michael, Kobe, Kareem, Russell, Chamberlin. That's 6. Lebron isn't even a top 5 conversation at this point he has a lot more proving to do.

And as you stated, 4 of those are retired, Kobe is close to being retired as well.

LeBron is like 27-29 area, not even close to his end or his prime. He's got another 8-9 years in him.

You're outrageous to think LeBron isn't a top 2-3 player of all time and he's not even done. Just appreciate what's in front of you. He's going to go down as a legend and HOF.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

If it's so impossible to compare the 2, why are you stating facts and such...? Obviously the 2 can be compared because you have been doing it.

1. Athleticism is greater now, can't deny that.
2. Reason teams are 38-44 is because they are playing Heat, Pacers, etc. You can't have 10 teams with 72-19, impossible to conquer right there.
3. Stats are much different since most teams have 2-3 high quality players that are allstar caliber.

No need to get all upset and irritated, I'm enjoying seeing other insight and you have some very good insight.

I'm not irritated. I am frustrated. Because honestly...it's like I said before dude. It's all supposition. You can't honestly figure this out. We both offer facts that while put together sound logical, are still just supposition. We will never truly be able to know how they compare. Just like we will never truly be able to know something like how good Johnny Unitas would have been in today's NFL.

I do think it's impossible. I'm saying if you made me choose, I choose MJ, and it's mainly through external faults that Lebron CANNOT control.

 

[Lorenzo]

Just incase anyone cares

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/...=Tim+Duncan+%281997-present%29&photo=30219331

Lebron doesn't even make the top 10 top players of all time.

 

I'm not irritated. I am frustrated. Because honestly...it's like I said before dude. It's all supposition. You can't honestly figure this out. We both offer facts that while put together sound logical, are still just supposition. We will never truly be able to know how they compare. Just like we will never truly be able to know something like how good Johnny Unitas would have been in today's NFL.

I do think it's impossible. I'm saying if you made me choose, I choose MJ, and it's mainly through external faults that Lebron CANNOT control.

Don't get me started with NFL

Just incase anyone cares

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/...=Tim+Duncan+%281997-present%29&photo=30219331

Lebron doesn't even make the top 10 top players of all time.

Doesn't mean much, was 2 years ago, and is more likely one person's view.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

I hope I didn't insult you with my childish ranting at times. This is just a topic that drives me freakin nuts because as much as I wish we could really see who is the best, we will never truly know. That's just the nature of the beast.

I do tend to think those NFL guys would get shredded in today's NFL. But I still think the NBA has gotten a bit soft. If maximum contact were allowed, or contact of the 90s, yes, I'd definitely say your argument is correct over mine...they are definitely stronger, faster, and more athletic. However, I still think the new rules constrains that athleticism a bit.

 

[Busta305]

Just incase anyone cares

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/...=Tim+Duncan+%281997-present%29&photo=30219331

Lebron doesn't even make the top 10 top players of all time.

That's players who have finished their careers, Lebron's career is not even close to finished. If you compare players with what they have accomplished within their first 10 years in the league, Lebron is easily 2nd only topped by Jordan.

 

[Lorenzo]

So you think Lebron is better then Kobe?

:Tim Duncan is still playing.

 

[Busta305]

So you think Lebron is better then Kobe?

:Tim Duncan is still playing.

Both Tim Duncan and Kobe's careers are almost done. And yes Lebron was better in his first 10 years compared to Kobe's first 10 but I think Lebron needs to do more to be considered above Kobe as an all time player.

 

[FireZ]

That's players who have finished their careers, Lebron's career is not even close to finished. If you compare players with what they have accomplished within their first 10 years in the league, Lebron is easily 2nd only topped by Jordan.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. Lbj accomplished more in less time then almost anyone in history

 

[FireZ]

So you think Lebron is better then Kobe?

:Tim Duncan is still playing.

Duncan is great but he is nowhere near lebron