Illuminati

[johnty15]

before I go on i do believe in "iluminated" individuals who control a large portion but i think you have this illuminati stuff all messed up... why would the "illuminati" bother killing a rapper... the Illuminati you speak of is the CEOs of the major international banks or the group of influential people who are bohemian club members or skull and cross bones, and they ARE out to get us, but so are thieves and my house hasnt been robbed

 

[rushjeff]

i wish snatchmasta would get off this thread hes rather annoying and borderline harassing/flaming his couple posts have been reported and hopefully gets infracted accordingly.

anywho.. I do beleive in some behind the scenes this its obvious.. ppl who beleive we are told everything..

IRAN CONTRA? CIA? RICKY ROSS? 911? bIN LADEN? SADAM?

all this can be linked to just miniscule events within our own country that got caught doing shady shit to get what they want and lie about it..

whose to say this dont happen on a global scale by a global force?
its a very likely scenario.. sadly 89% of these forums are 15 and younger so their minds have yet to mature to the darkness of this world..
im 22 now and i remember 15 i thought the world was so awesome nothing could go wrong 7 years later i know we are doomed very soon..

I beleive in a 2012 event happening be life changing it may not be an apocolypse but i think something is going to happen that is going to very well change the course of history..

 

[rushjeff]

by the way i agreewith someone about the big banks

they are the worst too.. reminds me of the movie 'the international'

about a russian bank i beleive that used its money n influence to create wars and control countries and would kill or do whatever to keep its power position..

thats about the harsh reality of the real big bank companies along with any power players in any of the major financial systems as unfortunatly its all bout money in this world..I hope we go back to the dark ages in a sense.. medieval times were the best imo or atleast the 17-1800s

 

[SomeFormOfHuman]

After seeing the videos, I'm gonna look a little more into this. There were some kids on WoW discussing this and it seemed a little off, but after seeing the videos, man, idk.

 

[Snatchmasta]

IRAN CONTRA? CIA? RICKY ROSS? 911? bIN LADEN? SADAM?

all this can be linked to just miniscule events within our own country that got caught doing shady shit to get what they want and lie about it..


I beleive in a 2012 event happening be life changing it may not be an apocolypse but i think something is going to happen that is going to very well change the course of history..

Alright. So I acknowledge that our country has had some shady international dealings (especially funding fascist paramilitary governments in an attempt to quell communism in south america). However that doesn't automatically link illuminati to the united states.

There are shady dealings in the US Gov't
There are shady dealings in the supposed Illuminati
therefore the illuminati and US Gov't must be related

False.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
Herp

whose to say this dont happen on a global scale by a global force?
its a very likely scenario.. sadly 89% of these forums are 15 and younger so their minds have yet to mature to the darkness of this world..
im 22 now and i remember 15 i thought the world was so awesome nothing could go wrong 7 years later i know we are doomed very soon..

I'm 18. Where do you get this 89% figure from? Why do I need to be 22 years old to believe in the illuminati?

anywho.. I do beleive in some behind the scenes this its obvious.. ppl who beleive we are told everything..

On one hand you blast non believers for being Sheeple/drones, participants in a flawed and corrupt system. However, in actuality, your are the mindless drone, being that your blindly follow logically flawed theories. You don't think for yourself, you just watch asinine youtube videos and instantly believe. Nobody here has given definitive proof that the illuminati exist.

The burden of proof is on you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
You make the claims, you assert that our almost universally accepted truths are lies, so in turn the burden is upon you.

i wish snatchmasta would get off this thread hes rather annoying and borderline harassing/flaming his couple posts have been reported and hopefully gets infracted accordingly.

Alright, I'll leave


Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference
-Mark Twain

Wouldn't want to risk that. (You being the fool. Thought I should clarify.)

Don't read this too fast, you might get a headache.

 

[JIGL0JAY]

You dope, this wasn't supposed to be a thread about whether the Illuminati exists or not anyways. You basically just dragged this thread off-topic.

This thread will be a discussion about the Illuminati. Basically I have very strong views on this subject, and wanted to know how others feel about it.
Warning: this is not a "friendly" topic. Anything is fair game, from the killing (or so called killing) of tupac, to 9/11. Do you think the Illuminati has control over this society?
And if you don't do you think a freemason/secret society group does? Please be in depth, for i am in a debating mood.

There ya go, lad.

i wish snatchmasta would get off this thread hes rather annoying and borderline harassing/flaming his couple posts have been reported and hopefully gets infracted accordingly.

I'm worse than Snatchmasta. He's merely pointing out that you're all being highly fallacious. This is a debate forum, fallacious arguments are not to be tolerated. We're not harassing/flaming by telling you you're moronic for propping up an Illuminati idea with no proof, speculative arguments, and fallacious videos/beliefs.

anywho.. I do beleive in some behind the scenes this its obvious.. ppl who beleive we are told everything..

You cannot just say that "it's obvious", if you believe that there are people being willingly blind to the facts. You are the one that puts your faith into the belief of Illuminati. You have no tangible evidence, but you believe it anyway. A sheeple will ignore facts and real ideas and promote their own fallacious argument by the "higher ups" of whatever school of thought they fall into. You fit this.

IRAN CONTRA? CIA? RICKY ROSS? 911? bIN LADEN? SADAM?

all this can be linked to just miniscule events within our own country that got caught doing shady shit to get what they want and lie about it..

That's a fallacious argument, and although you can get mad about it, you're the one creating these arguments that make your points weak and inept.

It doesn't make sense to say that because our government does shady dealings, and you feel that the Illuminati does shady dealings, that there is a secret force at work.

Let me show you another example:

• We feel that the pyramids of Ancient Egypt are so ridiculously complex and precise that there seems to be no way it could have happened with the tools at hand.
• Some believe that alien species have used their technology to help the humans at some point or another.
• Therefore aliens could have had some sort of influence on the Egyptians.

This is a fallicious argument because the second point is a speculation. Aliens and the Illuminati are both speculative.

whose to say this dont happen on a global scale by a global force?
its a very likely scenario.. sadly 89% of these forums are 15 and younger so their minds have yet to mature to the darkness of this world..
im 22 now and i remember 15 i thought the world was so awesome nothing could go wrong 7 years later i know we are doomed very soon..

Well whose to say it doesn't? Your argument, for starters. Your statistic of 89% of the forums being 15 and younger is laughable for sure. Not to mention you feel that age plays a factor in the amount of knowledge one has.

I beleive in a 2012 event happening be life changing it may not be an apocolypse but i think something is going to happen that is going to very well change the course of history..

Well next year, if you're not banned, I'll be sure to let you know about happenings in 2012 because I know you're either going to be in a bomb shelter, or cowering for your life due to fear of boogeymen.

Might I suggest getting a lot of tinfoil, and checking under your bed and in the closet for monsters? Because I hear the Illuminati plants monsters to slaughter all the dissenters. :laugh:

 

[JIGL0JAY]

lol you guys are the one who has made this thread personal.. personally attacking people over debates..

its funny as hell.. pm spamming me shit and talking personal shit in this thread im not even going to reply to your arguements on my statements because their pretty funny.. and iv been on this site 3 almost 4 years unbanned.. speak for yourself on the being banned by 2012 idiot..

I'm not talking personal shit? I'm saying you're stupid for making a fallicious argument. This is not an ad hominem. But if you are getting upset that you cannot provide proof of your claims, then I suggest you take some time off.

The Illuminati do not exist due to the lack of evidence not only in this thread, but in real life. Discussing them is a speculative idea, and speculation in this, the "Something For All", a >>DEBATE<< forum, is not tolerated.

 

[Snatchmasta]

The burden of proof is on you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
You make the claims, you assert that our almost universally accepted truths are lies, so in turn the burden is upon you.


Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference
-Mark Twain
.

Well for starters, "The Illuminatus! Trilogy". Oh wait, that's a satire based around the Illuminati. "Behold, A Pale Horse", "The Two Babylons", "Occult Theocracy", and "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail".

All of which seem to tie together, because a lot of the Illuminati based stories fall in line with the movies "The Da Vinci Code" (also a book) and "National Treasure".

Again, you really don't understand that there are people with arguments of all sorts of things. Belief that the heads of the government are actually reptiles (with proof), the belief that the U.S. government leaders sacrifice SOMETHING (possibly children) at Bohemian Grove according to the lunar cycle (with video proof), the belief that every event in the world is caused by the Illuminati (with proof), the belief that God is real and talks to people/performs miracles (with proof).

So you know what, I guess I can't dismiss your argument, because Reptile Humans, Bohemian Grove, the Illuminati, and God all exist due to statements from credible people who have seen/found the evidence of these things.




Well that's the great thing, we're not allowed in to test and carbon date the dinosaur bones, we just accept that they are real. So I give you this, that we could not prove it for ourselves. That is why there is a big debate by the theists who believe the earth is not millions of years old, which also goes into the theory of evolution.

The only problem with what you're saying is that they would have had to planted these bones hundreds of years ago in order to freak us out today. There are places where fossils are still turning up. Fossilization is a real thing and can be shown/proven.

Another thing you fail to mention is that the people you are trying to "discredit" using my logic are scientists. We can be scientists. If we go to school and get degrees, we can become scientists and study these things. The people in the "Illuminati" are either chosen to be, or are prominent government officials. Something that takes a lifetime to achieve. We cannot go up the ranks and prove it because none of us can suddenly become the leaders.


Actually not really, because if I was able to access a microscope with the capability of seeing an atom, I would be able to see that they exist. Not just that someone tells me that it exists, but there is physical evidence that I can look at it, observe it, state that it is there.

You assert that the illuminati are real. The burden of proof is on you.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
herp there you go

2 books. You sourced >>2<< books.

If a Mormon came to you with the Book of Mormon and the Bible and said they were true because one of them was more recent and one was older, and they have a couple hundred thousand members, would you believe them? As Snatchmasta has said (for what, the 4th time?), you're using the same evidence over and over, and refuse to either prove it through your own words, or give outside evidence that doesn't include "LOL READ MY BOOKS".

I have posed this question over and over again, but still no response.



How do you discern between circumstantial ties and actual occurrences of illuminati activity. It seems that literally anything related to 9/11, devils, the number "666", Machiavelli, Free Masons, Tupac, or Eyes is instantly classified as "illuminati". The Illuminati obviously exist because shit happens. Illuminati can't be directly tied to the shit because they are secret.... Herp-a-derp.This is bullshit, and just generally bumfuck logic.

Conspiracy theories are so prevalent, not because they have any legitimacy, but just because they're so fucking easy to make up.

Did you guys know that if you look at the American flag you can see the Illuminati symbol in it?

Some of the "proof" that has been presented is just asinine.

It doesn't make sense to say that because our government does shady dealings, and you feel that the Illuminati does shady dealings, that there is a secret force at work.

To be honest, this thread is pointless. The premise and validity of your argument center around your circular thinking. For you, anything denying the existence of illuminati is an attempt to quell resistance. Anything related to the illuminati is a secret leak from the inside. You've already pre decided that any evidence supports the illuminati from one angle or another, so whats the point. Stop dodging our points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

 

[Herman Li]

I'm not saying that. I believe the Illuminati does. I don't 100% KNOW they exist, because it obviously cannot be proven either way. But the coincidences, occurrences, testimonies, etc etc are enough to convince me to think they're out there.

 

[Foxichu]

Illuminati are a joke, and have no real power. Stop trying to act smart and let it die. Thanks.

 

[Foxichu]

Well, the fact that only stoners and idiots believe the Illuminati have so mystical power, I stand by my belief. I haven't seen one well-educated person in this thread say anything that empowers the Illuminati.

 

[Noam]

I can't believe you're arguing against proven science and history just to illustrate that a massive global government is controlling us.

As Snatchmasta said, "you simply will refuse to believe they don't exist, even if we prove it logically."

It is, as Snatchmasta also said, begging the question. Circular reasoning.



So, to fit this with the Illuminati:

1. The Illuminati are a secret government, and cannot be proven wrong because officials have stated that they were a part of it.
2. If they are wrong, then modern scientists can be wrong because modern scientists could deceive you.
3. Therefore the Illuminati has to be real based on testimony from others.

Too much corruption and sense to let it go. No thanks

Corruption? Sense? I don't see any of either. Can you expand?

 

[xh1tman3]

i dont believe in an the Illuminati, but it did exist long ago. The real "Illuminati" are the CEOs, corporate giants, and extreme right-winged politicians that we see right in front of us

 

[Terrankiller]

Anyone who questions the Illuminati in an Illuminati thread is posting off topic messages. We are only allowed to talk about Tupac and stuff yo.

 

[Emperor Nero]

Anyone who questions the Illuminati in an Illuminati thread is posting off topic messages. We are only allowed to talk about Tupac and stuff yo.

Are you insinuating that the blackman will rise up to take the cloak of the Illuminati?

OT: The Illuminati is a bunch of BS that crazy people thought up to explain things, kind of like religion.

 

[Terrankiller]

Are you insinuating that the blackman will rise up to take the cloak of the Illuminati?

OT: The Illuminati is a bunch of BS that crazy people thought up to explain things, kind of like religion.

I am insinuating the Illuminati do not exist because it seems like they have nothing better to do than "assassinate" popular rappers who know to much.

 

[JIGL0JAY]

No. Make another thread if you want to discuss proof of existence. This isn't the thread for it.

No one stays on topic. 'Tis shame.

Herman, can I just point out that this entire post right here is off topic? You asserted the existance of the Illuminati, and do not back it with proof. I'm sorry, but 8 different videos - most of which were all talking about how the media creates all these symbolic gestures about the NWO and devil worship - don't constitute proof.

Your argument is non-existent.

I'm going to request this thread to be locked. It's going nowhere.

 

[iem god]

The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name given to several groups, both real (historical) and fictitious. Historically the name refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776.

Since the publication of Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson's postmodern science fiction work The Illuminatus! Trilogy (1975-7) the name has been used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization that masterminds events and controls world affairs through governments and corporations to establish a New World Order. In this context the Illuminati are usually represented as a modern version or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati.

The movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria) as the Order of the Illuminati, with an initial membership of five, by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt. It was made up of freethinkers as an offshoot of the Enlightenment and seems to have been modeled on the Freemasons. The Illuminati's members took a vow of secrecy and pledged obedience to their superiors. Members were divided into three main classes, each with several degrees, and many Illuminati chapters drew membership from existing Masonic lodges.

Originally Weishaupt had planned the order to be named the "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Bavarian Illuminati and its ideology has been called "Illuminism". Many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members, including Ferdinand of Brunswick and the diplomat Xavier von Zwack, the second-in-command of the order. The order had branches in most European countries: it reportedly had around 2,000 members over the span of ten years. It attracted literary men such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder and the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar.

In 1777 Karl Theodor became ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of Enlightened Despotism and his government banned all secret societies including the Illuminati. Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was affected by the Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government The March 2, 1785 edict "seems to have been deathblow to the Illuminati in Bavaria." Weishaupt had fled and documents and internal correspondences, seized in 1786 and 1787, were subsequently published by the government in 1787. Von Zwack's home was searched to disclose much of the group's literature.

--sorry for the length but please read, this should end the conversation--

 

[Reboman]

Herman, can I just point out that this entire post right here is off topic? You asserted the existance of the Illuminati, and do not back it with proof. I'm sorry, but 8 different videos - most of which were all talking about how the media creates all these symbolic gestures about the NWO and devil worship - don't constitute proof.

Your argument is non-existent.

I'm going to request this thread to be locked. It's going nowhere.

The term "Illuminati" is a broad one. There are several groups working to achieve the same goal, most notably the Bilderburg group and the Council of Foreign Relations.

Being able to prove the existence of the Illuminati is rather tough because most of it is based on pure speculation. But if you connect the dots they appear to make a rather compelling argument.

As a believer of this myself, I believe that their mission is to control the money supply in the world because money makes the world go round as the saying goes. Without money it is quite difficult to survive in the modern world.

What a lot of people don't understand about money is that money = debt. The more money there is in circulation, the more debt there is.

The Federal Reserve, which is the central bank of the United States, loans the US government money, and then charges them interest.

So in theory, it is impossible to pay back the debt because: 1 &#8800; 1 + interest.

The world depends on the stability of the dollar. Once it collapses, the world's economy will collapse (which I believe to be inevitable at this point) and we will see times much worse than the Great Depression. This will pave the way for a new global currency.

Money is the root of all evil.

 

[TheJCDaly]

I am insinuating the Illuminati do not exist because it seems like they have nothing better to do than "assassinate" popular rappers who know to much.

You sir, obviously 1. Cannot read a thread. or 2. are to lazy to read a thread and just post what you think it is about.
This thread contains more information than that, for that is a conspiracy. (The Tupac Murder) Obviously your mind could not wrap around the point of a debate so you picked a small part of an arguement, and made it seem like that was all this thread was talking about.

The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name given to several groups, both real (historical) and fictitious. Historically the name refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776.

Since the publication of Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson's postmodern science fiction work The Illuminatus! Trilogy (1975-7) the name has been used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization that masterminds events and controls world affairs through governments and corporations to establish a New World Order. In this context the Illuminati are usually represented as a modern version or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati.

The movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria) as the Order of the Illuminati, with an initial membership of five, by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt. It was made up of freethinkers as an offshoot of the Enlightenment and seems to have been modeled on the Freemasons. The Illuminati's members took a vow of secrecy and pledged obedience to their superiors. Members were divided into three main classes, each with several degrees, and many Illuminati chapters drew membership from existing Masonic lodges.

Originally Weishaupt had planned the order to be named the "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Bavarian Illuminati and its ideology has been called "Illuminism". Many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members, including Ferdinand of Brunswick and the diplomat Xavier von Zwack, the second-in-command of the order. The order had branches in most European countries: it reportedly had around 2,000 members over the span of ten years. It attracted literary men such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder and the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar.

In 1777 Karl Theodor became ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of Enlightened Despotism and his government banned all secret societies including the Illuminati. Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was affected by the Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government The March 2, 1785 edict "seems to have been deathblow to the Illuminati in Bavaria." Weishaupt had fled and documents and internal correspondences, seized in 1786 and 1787, were subsequently published by the government in 1787. Von Zwack's home was searched to disclose much of the group's literature.

--sorry for the length but please read, this should end the conversation--

This does not end the conversation, this merely brings a new light into the conversation. It states the leader had fled, this is where many people believe he had made the "illuminati" in a place of religious freedom, a young prospering country that had just been founded and already had their own arrangements of secret societies. (Freemasons, etc) Kinda funny how all these dates slowly but surely seem to line up.