Illegal immigrants

[p0oned y0u1]

What is that reason?

I "steal" movies all the time. Does that mean I'm a danger to society?

lol

First i have know clue why they make the laws. I am not the one who made them....

Second if you decide to go and kill people because they caught you stealing, or in some way stealing leads to worse crimes then yes.

Third, it is the truth. Slave labor FTW.

 

[CH1C0]

As you said "some" and many people personally know people that sell drugs but are the friendliest people around, does that cover all of them? no, you can't take a small portion of examples and use it to generalize a stereotype of them all.

So are you suggesting most illegal immigrants just live of 'handouts' from the government?
Also, you ARE stereotyping them as people that live off the government.

 

[MatthewGor123]

So are you suggesting most illegal immigrants just live of 'handouts' from the government?
Also, you ARE stereotyping them as people that live off the government.

I think that's a safe stereotype, since by definition they do not pay taxes and do not help our Government, while getting handed paychecks that come from America's economic circle of wealth, even if they are not directly from American government. Not all, of course, live this way - but I don't see how they feel they have the right to move to this country and yet not help provide for this country, like all legal citizens.

 

[ultrakurby]

I think we should let them in. They are wanting to work and working the jobs that most people dont want to. If we dont do something soon, social security is going to be gone so let the illegal immigrants work and pay taxes

 

[Christmas Crackers]

No, because there's been no proven corrolation between stealing movies/breaking copyright laws and commiting violent/gruesome crimes. On the other hand, illegal immigrants have a high statistical record of gang violence. Also, stealing movies doesn't cost the GOVERNMENT money, it costs PEOPLE money - which is wrong, but at least it doesn't chip away from EVERYBODY's earnings.

corrolation = *correlation*
ehhh, I don't mean to be rude, but you don't really understand basic economics, do you? The government IS the people, and the government's money IS people's money. So by stealing movies, you are taking money away from the producers and artists who put time into them. The producers and artists therefore make less money, and because of our progressive tax system, they pay less money in taxes, which means the government earns less, which means the government has less money to spend.

I think that's a safe stereotype, since by definition they do not pay taxes and do not help our Government, while getting handed paychecks that come from America's economic circle of wealth, even if they are not directly from American government. Not all, of course, live this way - but I don't see how they feel they have the right to move to this country and yet not help provide for this country, like all legal citizens.

Again, economics comes into play. I just want to say that if it was this clear that illegal immigrants were ruining "America's circle of wealth"(and I have no idea what you mean by this) then we would have resolved the issue by now, trust me. Because illegal immigrants DO present an advantage, there is controversy.

First of all, money is very liquid, especially if the illegals are getting paid a very small amount. By liquid I mean it is transferred quickly, and it doesn't sit in one spot. When illegals get their paychecks, what do you think they do with them? Do you think they put them in banks where they will earn interest, and eventually have enough money to buy a Porsche? No, they spend it on food, water, transportation, housing, etc. So in fact, they provide labor(in some cases labor that others would not choose), which keeps business going, and they pump all the money they earn back into the economy, thereby adding to consumer wealth.

Your turn

 

[MatthewGor123]

First of all, money is very liquid, especially if the illegals are getting paid a very small amount. By liquid I mean it is transferred quickly, and it doesn't sit in one spot. When illegals get their paychecks, what do you think they do with them? Do you think they put them in banks where they will earn interest, and eventually have enough money to buy a Porsche? No, they spend it on food, water, transportation, housing, etc. So in fact, they provide labor(in some cases labor that others would not choose), which keeps business going, and they pump all the money they earn back into the economy, thereby adding to consumer wealth.

Your turn

They may not be earning interest, but they still don't pay taxes and other things. They cost the American government 340B dollars a year. End of. (You do bring up a few good points, though - but why can't all Americans just not pay taxes then?)

 

[Christmas Crackers]

I'd like to see your source on that figure (340b) because I looked up the cost of illegals in California alone and it is only $9 billion, and they have a huge illegal population.

You see, it doesn't matter if they are not paying taxes, why do you think that people in the top 1% of American wealth pay a miniscule amount in taxes? Because they are the ones who spend the most, if their money went to taxes, the economy would suffer. Illegals make a tiny fraction of what the top 1% make, therefore the revenue generated from taxing them essentially is smaller than what they would spend to keep the economy going.

 

[MatthewGor123]

I'd like to see your source on that figure (340b) because I looked up the cost of illegals in California alone and it is only $9 billion, and they have a huge illegal population.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://*******.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free
school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally
and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal
aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American
taxpayers.
Verify at:http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white
non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as
many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://*******.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and
$23 0 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
Verify at: http:// www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

So when you think about all the stuff people complain about our tax money being spent on, including the war and other things, think about what you have read above.

You see, it doesn't matter if they are not paying taxes, why do you think that people in the top 1% of American wealth pay a miniscule amount in taxes?

They don't? Rofl.

Because they are the ones who spend the most, if their money went to taxes, the economy would suffer.

In most states, the income taxes come from your total wealth, minus a few tax-deductible items. A house and a car are most definitely not.

Illegals make a tiny fraction of what the top 1% make, therefore the revenue generated from taxing them essentially is smaller than what they would spend to keep the economy going.

By your own logic, you said that if people don't spend money, the economy suffers. So, if they make such a tiny fraction, how come their tax input to the government is "trivial" but their impact on the economy is so large?

 

[Christmas Crackers]

They don't? Rofl.
If you're serious in that statement, you are either a die-hard Republican, or you are completely naive and incompetent.


In most states, the income taxes come from your total wealth, minus a few tax-deductible items. A house and a car are most definitely not.

I'm not talking about income tax buddy....

By your own logic, you said that if people don't spend money, the economy suffers. So, if they make such a tiny fraction, how come their tax input to the government is "trivial" but their impact on the economy is so large?

That's because your figures are taking into account economic cost, not just accounting cost, there is a huge difference. Economic costs take into account the opportunity costs of an action compared to doing nothing or taking a different action. I never said their tax input to the government is trivial, and I never said that if people don't spend money the economy will suffer, that is basic knowledge rofl. Compare it to the $700 billion bailout, it is DOUBLE what the illegals are costing us (according to your figures) yet it is not getting as much hype and discussion as illegals. WHY? Because the monetary issue doesn't matter, it's the fact that we don't want illegal people in our country.

 

[xestrox]

So are you suggesting most illegal immigrants just live of 'handouts' from the government?
Also, you ARE stereotyping them as people that live off the government.

Yes im suggesting that, because if you looked at my first post on this thread it provides details and the sources i used to obtain my information, and it states how many of them and the percentage of them that do live off of the government, and no im not stereotyping people that live off the government, because some people need it, im just mostly suggesting that they are coming over here not to work but solely for the purpose to live off of the free services, yes there are some that work, but the ones working, since there illegal, are working illegally "under the table", so that they are getting paid under minimum wage, and taking the jobs of the citizens of america, if they want to come over here legally, thats fine, but you people supporting them, id like to here you explain what's so hard about them doing it a legal way.

 

[xestrox]

That's because your figures are taking into account economic cost, not just accounting cost, there is a huge difference. Economic costs take into account the opportunity costs of an action compared to doing nothing or taking a different action. I never said their tax input to the government is trivial, and I never said that if people don't spend money the economy will suffer, that is basic knowledge rofl. Compare it to the $700 billion bailout, it is DOUBLE what the illegals are costing us (according to your figures) yet it is not getting as much hype and discussion as illegals. WHY? Because the monetary issue doesn't matter, it's the fact that we don't want illegal people in our country.

yes, a main reason is because we don't want illegal's in our country, but even though it may cost us alot getting them out, in the future if we can get them out and keep them out it will avoid all of these costs, causing it in the long run to save us money. aswell as allowwing some of us to re-obtain a percentage of our sense of security knowing that we don't have illegal immigrants in our city and town that may rob us or bring even more drug trafficking to our city.

 

[Christmas Crackers]

yes, a main reason is because we don't want illegal's in our country, but even though it may cost us alot getting them out, in the future if we can get them out and keep them out it will avoid all of these costs, causing it in the long run to save us money. aswell as allowwing some of us to re-obtain a percentage of our sense of security knowing that we don't have illegal immigrants in our city and town that may rob us or bring even more drug trafficking to our city.

It's truly refreshing to hear a REAL argument. Good point, well written, and it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE (stares at Matthew)

 

[Shredderbeam]

Tossing out the illegal immigrants will cost you in the long-run. Their cheap labor keeps U.S.-grown food prices down.

Also, not all illegal immigrants are stealing, killing, etc.

 

[MatthewGor123]

It's truly refreshing to hear a REAL argument. Good point, well written, and it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE (stares at Matthew)

. It's kinda what I was trying to say, I just didn't really phrase it properly. Anyways, I'm not saying kick them all out - I'm saying make the legalization process more efficient and easy, so the economy should not be harmed...

Tossing out the illegal immigrants will cost you in the long-run. Their cheap labor keeps U.S.-grown food prices down.

Also, not all illegal immigrants are stealing, killing, etc.

You don't think there will be other people wanting to take these jobs other than illegal immigrants? Why can't the illegal immigrants become legal, thus pay taxes and whatnot, rather than rely on America to provide for them?

 

[Shredderbeam]

You don't think there will be other people wanting to take these jobs other than illegal immigrants? Why can't the illegal immigrants become legal, thus pay taxes and whatnot, rather than rely on America to provide for them?

The illegal immigrants work for wages that U.S. citizens will not.

 

[MatthewGor123]

The illegal immigrants work for wages that U.S. citizens will not.

Fair point - but I'd like some research proving that illegal immigrants do, in fact, average a salary that's below minimum wage in these food-related industries (while the American workers who do these jobs get paid more). Because there are *plenty* of legal citizens working for minimum wage, or just above it.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Fair point - but I'd like some research proving that illegal immigrants do, in fact, average a salary that's below minimum wage in these food-related industries (while the American workers who do these jobs get paid more). Because there are *plenty* of legal citizens working for minimum wage, or just above it.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/briggstestimony040408.html

It's pretty well-documented, a few Google searches will get you what you want.

They're paid less than American workers (though still more than what they earned in Mexico) because they're easy to manipulate (no wage competition).

 

[noob king]

whites will be a minority in usa in like 2012 :|

 

[MatthewGor123]

http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/briggstestimony040408.html

It's pretty well-documented, a few Google searches will get you what you want.

They're paid less than American workers (though still more than what they earned in Mexico) because they're easy to manipulate (no wage competition).

They may be paid less, but does that mean that Americans would NOT accept to be paid this amount but rather choose unemployment? IDK - there are tons of Americans living in just as shitty conditions as it is was back home for the illegal immigrants?

Why can they not get legalized? What rationale do you have behind not supporting a more efficient legalization process, allowing more opportunity for the immigrants to become legal? Keep in mind - illegal immigrants also have a higher crime rate, because legal immigrants are afraid of losing their Green Cards and being deported.

 

[Shredderbeam]

They may be paid less, but does that mean that Americans would NOT accept to be paid this amount but rather choose unemployment? IDK - there are tons of Americans living in just as shitty conditions as it is was back home for the illegal immigrants?

I didn't say that they would rather go jobless. The corporations save money by paying them a lower wage. If they employed Americans instead, they would be forced to pay at least minimum wage, so the resulting increased costs would be passed along to the customers, driving prices up.

Why can they not get legalized? What rationale do you have behind not supporting a more efficient legalization process, allowing more opportunity for the immigrants to become legal? Keep in mind - illegal immigrants also have a higher crime rate, because legal immigrants are afraid of losing their Green Cards and being deported.

Who said I didn't support a more efficient legalization process?

I don't see how the fear that legal immigrants experience regarding their green card makes illegal immigrants more prone to criminal activity.