Holding Staff Accountable

[Gun]

Why is staff not held accountable?

There are strict rules for regular members, up to a permanent ban.

Yet when a staff member's post is reported I NEVER get confirmation that the report was handled, I assume it just gets tossed by whoever dealt with it.


Now how about accountability with their job?

Some staff members time and time again fail the community. They make continual decisions that are incorrect and effect the other parties. ie; Handling reports incorrectly, rules violations, etc.

Staff services the community and the people within it, yet there never seems to be even a slap on the wrist when they fuck up. Can we integrate a formal feedback system monitored by Admins on their lower counterparts? (Beyond a feedback thread.....)

 

[Rob White]

I must say your DNT is cute.

OT: Staff members are voluntary positions and they all do a fine job. I think you're upset with something else and trying to make the staff look to blame.

 

[tMoon]

I seldom see staff members posts reported and there is no requirement on sending a resolution message. If you reported something and it has not been handled (or handled properly) then I suggest reporting it again, or directly PMing a staff member.

Would you mind providing some specific instances of staff not being held accountable? You seem to be making vague statements/speaking in generalities with nothing actually backing up your claims. Staff will make mistakes - we are human - but if a team member is continually making significant mistakes, their position will be reviewed (this is why when staff are first promoted they are on somewhat of a probationary period). Even so, I don't continually see staff member consistently mishandling reports and the likes.

As for a feedback system, I think threads are sufficient, but would not be again a more formal system. I would just suggest contacting staff members directly with grievances and if someone is uncomfortable doing that, then contact staff above them who can then approach the issue at hand.

 

That's true I reported a superfluous' post cos it was spam in suggestion section, Tyler handled it but idk if it was handled, like what did he receive an infraction cos that post is still there. I don't presume he'd give a global an infraction. For some reason rules don't seem to apply to staff the same way, maybe because they feel they're above it, maybe sectionals can't hold a higher staff member accountable even though you would expect a staff member to abide to the rules especially something like spam when lately people are getting infractions left right and centre and whole threads "cleaned" of community participation because apparently what everyone writes is spam.


*breaths*

Yeh that's the only sorta thing I've encountered. As far as I can remember.

 

[Gun]

I seldom see staff members posts reported and there is no requirement on sending a resolution message. If you reported something and it has not been handled (or handled properly) then I suggest reporting it again, or directly PMing a staff member.

Would you mind providing some specific instances of staff not being held accountable? You seem to be making vague statements/speaking in generalities with nothing actually backing up your claims. Staff will make mistakes - we are human - but if a team member is continually making significant mistakes, their position will be reviewed (this is why when staff are first promoted they are on somewhat of a probationary period). Even so, I don't continually see staff member consistently mishandling reports and the likes.

As for a feedback system, I think threads are sufficient, but would not be again a more formal system. I would just suggest contacting staff members directly with grievances and if someone is uncomfortable doing that, then contact staff above them who can then approach the issue at hand.

So what I'm gathering from that is the community members have to go even further out of their way just to have the issue brought to light, rather than a comprehensive manner of reporting on the issues to get in front of admin's eyes.

 

[Laptop65]

Reports on staff member's posts usually make their way to whatever the next rank is on the staff team, it doesn't go ignored.

Remember just because you don't see any action taken doesn't mean they weren't given an infraction or had a quiet word with behind the scenes.

 

[Tyler]

Reports on staff member's posts usually make their way to whatever the next rank is on the staff team, it doesn't go ignored.

Remember just because you don't see any action taken doesn't mean they weren't given an infraction or had a quiet word with behind the scenes.

In my specific case I have made superfluous aware of the fact that his post was reported. Two things influenced me to make that decision.

1. FireZ has previously told me it didnt matter when staff posted on suggestions with "yeah sure" kind of posts. While I certainly dont think moderators are above the rules, this is the information I have thats from somebody who is an adminstrator and as such, my superior.

2. Even if that wasnt the case I cant infract superfluous. The forums literally dont let me warn/infract him on his post.

 

[Gun]

Reports on staff member's posts usually make their way to whatever the next rank is on the staff team, it doesn't go ignored.

Remember just because you don't see any action taken doesn't mean they weren't given an infraction or had a quiet word with behind the scenes.

In my specific case I have made superfluous aware of the fact that his post was reported. Two things influenced me to make that decision.

1. FireZ has previously told me it didnt matter when staff posted on suggestions with "yeah sure" kind of posts. While I certainly dont think moderators are above the rules, this is the information I have thats from somebody who is an adminstrator and as such, my superior.

2. Even if that wasnt the case I cant infract superfluous. The forums literally dont let me warn/infract him on his post.

There should be a means of informing the reporter of the other party's verdict, regardless of the case. How would you expect the general public to accept "It happens behind the scenes you just don't see it" when the same people continue to fuck up time and time again without any consequences?

 

[Superfluous]

That's true I reported a superfluous' post cos it was spam in suggestion section, Tyler handled it but idk if it was handled, like what did he receive an infraction cos that post is still there. I don't presume he'd give a global an infraction. For some reason rules don't seem to apply to staff the same way, maybe because they feel they're above it, maybe sectionals can't hold a higher staff member accountable even though you would expect a staff member to abide to the rules especially something like spam when lately people are getting infractions left right and centre and whole threads "cleaned" of community participation because apparently what everyone writes is spam.
*breaths*
Yeh that's the only sorta thing I've encountered. As far as I can remember.

and @Gun since it was your thread
if this whole thread is seriously about moes and me posting "yeah i support"-type posts on this thread Fix/Revert the user search threads? then this is a really petty way of getting your point across. i removed those posts so that this doesn't disgruntle people going forwards. for the record, i did see the post report and ignored it because the thread doesn't really merit discussion. it's literally "resort this list" and moes and i thought it would be helpful. there's no reasoning for why it would be helpful other than it makes our lives easier because we do this as staff pretty often.

if this is thread is about other situations, it would help if you post examples for us to follow. "mods break rules and dont get punished!" is inflammatory and not helpful. so if there are examples that come to mind can you please post them so we can review? thanks!

also, and potentially-related, i really don't like the fact that staff can hide posts on their own feedback threads. i feel like they should have to report those posts and have other staff review, because this can lead to censoring of feedback

 

[Superfluous]

There should be a means of informing the reporter of the other party's verdict, regardless of the case. How would you expect the general public to accept "It happens behind the scenes you just don't see it" when the same people continue to fuck up time and time again without any consequences?

a few weeks ago, i asked matthew to add a "your report was handled by [MOD NAME HERE]" as a default when handling reports and he said he can't do that. i don't see why it's difficult but it got shot down. agree with you that this should be the default though

 

[Gun]

and @Gun since it was your thread
if this whole thread is seriously about moes and me posting "yeah i support"-type posts on this thread Fix/Revert the user search threads? then this is a really petty way of getting your point across. i removed those posts so that this doesn't disgruntle people going forwards. for the record, i did see the post report and ignored it because the thread doesn't really merit discussion. it's literally "resort this list" and moes and i thought it would be helpful. there's no reasoning for why it would be helpful other than it makes our lives easier because we do this as staff pretty often.

if this is thread is about other situations, it would help if you post examples for us to follow. "mods break rules and dont get punished!" is inflammatory and not helpful. so if there are examples that come to mind can you please post them so we can review? thanks!

also, and potentially-related, i really don't like the fact that staff can hide posts on their own feedback threads. i feel like they should have to report those posts and have other staff review, because this can lead to censoring of feedback

This has nothing to do with you posting support on my thread lmao?

 

[Gun]

and @Gun since it was your thread
if this whole thread is seriously about moes and me posting "yeah i support"-type posts on this thread Fix/Revert the user search threads? then this is a really petty way of getting your point across. i removed those posts so that this doesn't disgruntle people going forwards. for the record, i did see the post report and ignored it because the thread doesn't really merit discussion. it's literally "resort this list" and moes and i thought it would be helpful. there's no reasoning for why it would be helpful other than it makes our lives easier because we do this as staff pretty often.

if this is thread is about other situations, it would help if you post examples for us to follow. "mods break rules and dont get punished!" is inflammatory and not helpful. so if there are examples that come to mind can you please post them so we can review? thanks!

also, and potentially-related, i really don't like the fact that staff can hide posts on their own feedback threads. i feel like they should have to report those posts and have other staff review, because this can lead to censoring of feedback

I am talking about mishandling reports in general. Staff does not take the same comprehensive approach to all situations which augments the perception the community has on the rules/staff opinion.

I can pull 10s of reports but i am on my phone, one instance occurred yesterday with myself here:
Gun dice scam

1) The report isn't even filled out correctly.
2) The decision was made to instantly ban me based on 1 line of text in Discord. (Discord = Spam forum and cannot be used as proof in a report).
3) Instead of stating they made the wrong decision, staff repetitively has the party that was wronged fix the issue on their own rather than correcting the situation from the root cause.

There are instances where there is information lacking, etc. And staff just bans or DNT's the user without attempting to contact them to fix the situation.

Yet there are reports from the past week where people have scammed hundreds with valid proof and have taken any action towards the individual beyond tagging them asking for their side of the story.

How can ANYONE, let alone staff, expect people to be on the same page in regards to following the rules or having even the smallest respect for staff when staff continually blow decisions because of personal opinion, grief with people, or lack of time?

You guys want input towards how to do a better job managing things? Let me know. Outside of my normal troll-like mood I'm fine with helping, but instead 90% of staff just take face value.

 

[Superfluous]

1) @ your scam report, let video deal with it. it sounds like he knows information we don't about that situation

2) if there are active reports where users are scamming as the reporting process continues, @ some mods and ask them to DNT or ban while the report is being reviewed.

3) 99% of the time, staff's moderation decisions are accurate. my guess is the number is higher but i don't have stats to back it up. yeah, sometimes TWCs or DNTs are applied prematurely, but we would rather DNT someone wrongfully than not DNT someone who then goes on to scam someone. we judge everything on a case by case basis, to the best of our ability, and we sometimes make mistakes. that's part of the process and will never be entirely avoidable. we should be held responsible for these situations (i try to be, at least), and you guys should give us feedback as is necessary as to whether or not we're doing an appropriate job. and then we should make changes as needed. keep in mind we're volunteers just trying to do the best for the site as a whole.

How can ANYONE, let alone staff, expect people to be on the same page in regards to following the rules or having even the smallest respect for staff when staff continually blow decisions because of personal opinion, grief with people, or lack of time?

the first step towards respecting other people is being willing and able to see things from their point of view. you clearly need to work on this

 

[Gun]

1) @ your scam report, let video deal with it. it sounds like he knows information we don't about that situation

2) if there are active reports where users are scamming as the reporting process continues, @ some mods and ask them to DNT or ban while the report is being reviewed.

3) 99% of the time, staff's moderation decisions are accurate. my guess is the number is higher but i don't have stats to back it up. yeah, sometimes TWCs or DNTs are applied prematurely, but we would rather DNT someone wrongfully than not DNT someone who then goes on to scam someone. we judge everything on a case by case basis, to the best of our ability, and we sometimes make mistakes. that's part of the process and will never be entirely avoidable. we should be held responsible for these situations (i try to be, at least), and you guys should give us feedback as is necessary as to whether or not we're doing an appropriate job. and then we should make changes as needed. keep in mind we're volunteers just trying to do the best for the site as a whole.


the first step towards respecting other people is being willing and able to see things from their point of view. you clearly need to work on this

There's a difference between:

Jumping to a conclusion and prematurely doing something, Following up with corrective action and stating what occurred and how it was fixed.
Jumping to a conclusion and prematurely doing something, refusal to override the incorrect decision and continued attempt to justify a decision being made incorrectly.

And playing the "volunteers" card really doesn't help the case or give a rhyme/reason for making decisions haphazardly (staff as a whole). ie; The hospital, or shelter, or whatever volunteer activity you want to say didn't feel like running at capacity on Monday, so 25% of the patients went without treatment.

 

[Gun]

1) @ your scam report, let video deal with it. it sounds like he knows information we don't about that situation

2) if there are active reports where users are scamming as the reporting process continues, @ some mods and ask them to DNT or ban while the report is being reviewed.

3) 99% of the time, staff's moderation decisions are accurate. my guess is the number is higher but i don't have stats to back it up. yeah, sometimes TWCs or DNTs are applied prematurely, but we would rather DNT someone wrongfully than not DNT someone who then goes on to scam someone. we judge everything on a case by case basis, to the best of our ability, and we sometimes make mistakes. that's part of the process and will never be entirely avoidable. we should be held responsible for these situations (i try to be, at least), and you guys should give us feedback as is necessary as to whether or not we're doing an appropriate job. and then we should make changes as needed. keep in mind we're volunteers just trying to do the best for the site as a whole.


the first step towards respecting other people is being willing and able to see things from their point of view. you clearly need to work on this

I'm sure I am not the only one on board when it's said that accountability needs to be had. Whether it is from a superior or from within. Holding yourself accountable is where it starts at a localized level. Not just admitting mistakes but building off them to make sure it doesn't occur again, and stating how you corrected the issue.

I don't understand why it is not compelling, are you all narcissists?

 

Another situation coming to mind is that Moes scenario, with the whole removing an entire thread of comments and community participation, (I'll assume most people are aware of the thread and situation) labelling it spam and moving it to support section etc, and handing out infractions, some of which have been reversed, some of which saw member' 3 day temp banned for extra infraction build up, that's a clear misuse of applying the rules. At global level I'd not expect those mistakes, and then further the whole removing of feedback just limits community participation. Idk if I'm going off topic slightly, although I feel there's some lack of accountability there. (Not entirely sure how ordeal ended, apart from feedback thread put back? Or comments restored? And people's infractions reversed by admins) Moes will learn from the lesson? But a ban and days went to waste 'cos of it. So not much accountability in that sense.

@Superfluous the reason why I reported was instead of gaining post count etc, if any of us posted 'I support' it would be removed and infraction could be given out, because it would be breaking the section rules so any staff would be well within boundaries to hand out an infraction. Anyways if you support something there is a like button specifically made for that reason, right?

 

Remember just because you don't see any action taken doesn't mean they weren't given an infraction or had a quiet word with behind the scenes.

Where does the transparency tie into this? When you report government officials, are we suppose to just assume things were taken care of? I prefer visual confirmation.

 

[SuF]

You guys are cute. Staff members are treated differently and they should be. Sorry that's just how it needs to work and it should just be acknowledged and explained and people will not be as pissed off. Not that hard

 

[Shin]

If you need to report a staff member, message an Admin directly. There may be feedback improvements in the future.

 

[Gun]

You guys are cute. Staff members are treated differently and they should be. Sorry that's just how it needs to work and it should just be acknowledged and explained and people will not be as pissed off. Not that hard

Accountability isn't about disciplining an individual. It's about bringing it to light and actually building and learning off of it. That doesn't occur here.