Elite Dust Dispute

[MiraiSalam]

Flat out going to say that I will be addressing issues with the "Do Not Trade" rank and the big grey area it has. Without a doubt the DNT rank needs to be rewritten and cleared up. @Sythe I feel you did what you did to set precedent, but I don't appreciate using me as an example.

First things first, what is the DNT rank?

What DNT is:

• DNT is a more severe version of the TWC rank.
• DNT users cannot PM other users.
• DNT users cannot view or post in any market.
• DNT users cannot view or post in any dicing section.
• DNT users cannot display any ranks or miniranks except the DNT rank which they cannot hide.
• DNT users are encouraged to repay any outstanding debts they have and attempt to pardon through a streamlined process.
• DNT users will receive further temporary bans for attempting to trade with ban lengths proportional to how many warnings they have been given.

Just from the start, these guidelines are frail and vague. To be frank, the only thing that makes sense is the logic behind DNT.

Spoiler

• In most parts of the world punishment, restitution (repaying) and protection of others are separated.
• In our case:
  1. A temporary ban is a punishment.
  2. Repayment of others is necessary to rejoin the market (through a pardon).
  3. DNT is for the protection of others.
• Once punishment (ban period) for an offence has been served it is finalized and the punishment is complete.
• DNT is not a punishment, it is for the protection of others.
• After ban period is served the debt becomes a civil debt just like every other legal system.
• Restitution (repayment of the debt) is still required to rejoin the market.
• Serious indictable crimes are still permanently bannable.

To outline what Sythe's current view on DNT is let me show you a picture.

DNT question

This is ridiculously stupid, I just cannot fathom the logic behind this. By Sythe's logic you are not even allowed to trade offsite. Some people make a living from selling gold you understand that? What your trying to do is to dictate the life of others and control their flow of income/how they want to spend money. If the trade is offsite and your Sythe account is not directly involved a DNT member should not be punished for it.

My situation/dispute below

Spoiler

For the safety of other parties involved (they don't want to be named), I will have to blur out parts of the message.

I was informed by one of my friends Tanged has a name for sale. So I messaged him on Discord via PMS. Discord PMS are deemed as offsite. I could have messaged Tanged regardless of me being in the Sythe discord as I share a mutual server with him. Sythe, being the predictable man he is you will try to argue that me linking Tanged's thread on Sythe selling the name was a violation of the DNT, I disagree. I already knew about the names he was selling beforehand through a friend, me linking the thread was just a security measure of confirming it was him on Sythe as well (If a Osbot member has an offsite ban, for instance on Sythe. They get banned on Osbot aswell). It's really pathetic that as it stands PMing someone through discord is considered on site. It shouldn't be. Tanged's report (which I apologize for posting a inappropriate picture on) was out of pure vendetta towards me as a result of my reporting him for an attempted scam.

The rules behind DNT aren't clear, you can't hold anyone accountable until you compile bonafide rules & guidelines as well as address hypothetical scenarios (Similar to the issue we had with the blackhat rule)

Now let me list a bunch of unanswered hypothetical scenarios that fall in the grey area:

• Are Sythe staff allowed to willingly trade with a DNT user?
• Are Sythe staff allowed to sell goods of a DNT user if it's something that can't be recovered by the DNT user (Gold)?
• Are Sythe members allowed to willingly trade with a DNT user?
• What if a DNT user trades offsite with someone that is also a Sythe member? (Someone selling gold to Bogla via website)
• Are Sythe members allowed to sell goods of other DNT members user if it's something that can't be recovered by the DNT user (Gold)?
• What is considered onsite and what is considered offsite? If you are DNT are you allowed to trade offsite but confirm it's them onsite (Posting on profile "Yes it is me"

The current structure of DNT does NOT fully address this. It's a shame that these are going to be addressed only after I am making a thread as a result of a unwarranted ban.

Personal bias: I am a DNT user who isn't a threat to any other Sythe member, I have no outstanding debts with a total of $5000+ refunded to victims. I have spent more time as a banned member than a member. I am trusted offsite and a moderator on another forum. Multiple Sythe moderators (Who I shall not name but they know who they are) willingly trade with me through Skype (I still confirm it's them through Sythe somehow) knowing I am a DNT member. I buy/sell goods offsite. I am constructive to the Sythe community, I always look for the best interest of others and help on the forums wherever the opportunity arises.

 

I've already addressed this extensively in other disputes. It's pretty much just common sense.

Are Sythe staff allowed to willingly trade with a DNT user?

Staff shouldn't be trading with DNT users.

Are Sythe staff allowed to sell goods of a DNT user if it's something that can't be recovered by the DNT user (Gold)?

Staff shouldn't be trading with DNT users.

Are Sythe members allowed to willingly trade with a DNT user?

They (the non-DNT user) won't be punished for it however if the trade goes sour we won't entertain any disputes related to the trade.

What if a DNT user trades offsite with someone that is also a Sythe member? (Someone selling gold to Bogla via website)

It's against the rules however as explained before we act as courts not police. We're not going out of our way to detect this. If a Sythe user makes a report/dispute against a DNT member for attempted trading then we will act on that dispute. Which is what happened in your case. As already previously explained almost all trades are technically "offsite." By your logic we would be unable to enforce any trade rules.

Are Sythe members allowed to sell goods of other DNT members user if it's something that can't be recovered by the DNT user (Gold)?

See above.

What is considered onsite and what is considered offsite? If you are DNT are you allowed to trade offsite but confirm it's them onsite (Posting on profile "Yes it is me"

If you're DNT you are not allowed to trade with other Sythe members anywhere. However we do not actively police this. That said, if the other member reports you then you will probably be banned.

These rules are not unclear you just don't want to accept them.

 

[MiraiSalam]

Please relook over my ban. I showed proof of how the trade was completely offsite.Your answers are short and sweet but you completely overlooked the fact it was offsite. 6 months is much when other users first offense for evading was 1 week. I understand whatever bias you might have towards me (Idk even know u tho) but I believe you were a bit harsh.

My dispute was in the spoiler

Elite Dust Dispute

For the safety of other parties involved (they don't want to be named), I will have to blur out parts of the message.

I was informed by one of my friends Tanged has a name for sale. So I messaged him on Discord via PMS. Discord PMS are deemed as offsite. I could have messaged Tanged regardless of me being in the Sythe discord as I share a mutual server with him. Sythe, being the predictable man he is you will try to argue that me linking Tanged's thread on Sythe selling the name was a violation of the DNT, I disagree. I already knew about the names he was selling beforehand through a friend, me linking the thread was just a security measure of confirming it was him on Sythe as well (If a Osbot member has an offsite ban, for instance on Sythe. They get banned on Osbot aswell). It's really pathetic that as it stands PMing someone through discord is considered on site. It shouldn't be. Tanged's report (which I apologize for posting a inappropriate picture on) was out of pure vendetta towards me as a result of my reporting him for an attempted scam.