Creation AND Evolution

[TJ]

all I can say is dumbass....

can you prove god to me?
can you prove heaven?
can you prove hell?

Where evolution has many facts.

thanks.


edit/

and my teacher is a catholic and believes in evolution.

you can have a happy medium

 

[x⁹]

can you prove god to me?
can you prove heaven?
can you prove hell?

Where evolution has many facts.

thanks.


edit/

and my teacher is a catholic and believes in evolution.

you can have a happy medium

EVOLUTION IS NOT FACT.

It is a theory. This means there is no solid proof but it is a guess at what might have happened based on certain evidence.

People fail to realise this. Partly (I believe) because the education systems in both Australia and America teach evolution as fact.

 

[TJ]

EVOLUTION IS NOT FACT.

It is a theory. This means there is no solid proof but it is a guess at what might have happened based on certain evidence.

People fail to realise this. Partly (I believe) because the education systems in both Australia and America teach evolution as fact.

this still does not answer my question :

can you prove me all that stuff i said?

until i do see it, evolution is the way to go


and what i was trying to say in evolution has facts, is that it is more of a "reasonable" explanation for stuff... we didnt just have something pop out of the ground to become humans as the religious states.

adam and eve

what not


edit/


will check this in the morning, bed timez

 

[imnotcrazy357]

this still does not answer my question :

can you prove me all that stuff i said?

until i do see it, evolution is the way to go


and what i was trying to say in evolution has facts, is that it is more of a "reasonable" explanation for stuff... we didnt just have something pop out of the ground to become humans as the religious states.

adam and eve

what not


edit/


will check this in the morning, bed timez

Let me ask you this

Prove that the big bang happened.
Prove to me we evolved from nothing.
Prove to me that there is no purpose in life.


Evolution has the same amount of possibilities of being correct as creationism, or as islam, or budhism. Evolution is an educated guess based of assumptions.


You cannot prove a way of life to follow is more correct then another, If you choose to be an evolutionist that is what you choose, there is no way change you accept for your lack of belief in what you believe.


It is more reasonable to say that everything arose from nothing? How did matter get here? You say it is reasonable that we came from a single celled organism over billions of years, and are now composed of millions of cells ourseleves, and are able to intelligently communicate. Rather then having an intelligent creator. You are corrupt by the views of what you are taught in school.


and thats soo sweet, you have a bed time!

 

[TJ]

Isnt the theory of god saying that we popped out of no where?

you are telling me that you believe in unicorns also?
fairys?
leprochauns?
big foot?

what about the fossil records that we have, that show different bone structures for the same animal over years, made by a process of natural selection? what about that are DNA is similar to that of an ear of corn? We have the studies, but we are missing some information so it is not a fact yet. once it is, you will see why it is. You need to open your mind, and explore the reasoning before something before you smack it.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Let me ask you this

Prove that the big bang happened.

You cannot "prove" anything with 100% certainty. However, it would be a bit silly to deny the evidence of:

1). The expansion of the universe.
2). Microwave background radiation.
3). A ratio of 3:1 of hydrogen and helium, which perfectly matches what the Big Bang model proposes.

Prove to me we evolved from nothing.

Nobody's saying we evolved from nothing. However:

1). Almost entirely stratified fossil record.
2). Basic genetic similarity of all organisms.
3). Anatomical similarities between organisms.

To clarify #3, take a look at this whale skeleton:

See the vestigial hind leg? Of course, several anti-evolution sites claim that it's nothing but a mutation. *sigh*

Prove to me that there is no purpose in life.

I think the issue here is that you're assuming that there is a purpose in life, and you're waiting to be disproved. However, why would you believe that there's a purpose when science has uncovered no evidence of one?

Evolution has the same amount of possibilities of being correct as creationism, or as islam, or budhism. Evolution is an educated guess based of assumptions.

Hold on, there. Evolution is a theory, a well substantiated amalgamation of facts, evidence, predictions, and explanations that is logically self-consistent.

You cannot prove a way of life to follow is more correct then another, If you choose to be an evolutionist that is what you choose, there is no way change you accept for your lack of belief in what you believe.

Technically, that is correct. Yet, if this is your position, then you have no place arguing in a scientifically-minded thread.

Also, note: To say that implies that you chose to be a Creationist. You chose to suppose that all evidence was faked, or inconsequential. You chose to deny what your senses are telling you.

It is more reasonable to say that everything arose from nothing?

The only real problem is that we don't know what caused the Big Bang. Yet, I also don't know how an intelligent, conscious being that lives outside the universe can create something from nothing.

You say it is reasonable that we came from a single celled organism over billions of years, and are now composed of millions of cells ourseleves, and are able to intelligently communicate. Rather then having an intelligent creator.

Indeed, natural selection looks to be a better alternative to believing a pieced together book of ancient mythology.

You are corrupt by the views of what you are taught in school.

One could just as easily claim that you are corrupted by the views of what you are taught in church.

 

[Dorito]

You cannot "prove" anything with 100% certainty. However, it would be a bit silly to deny the evidence of:

1). The expansion of the universe.
2). Microwave background radiation.
3). A ratio of 3:1 of hydrogen and helium, which perfectly matches what the Big Bang model proposes.

The expansion of the universe doesn't disprove Creationism nor prove the Big Bang happened.

Microwave background radiation, once again, it doesn't prove anything, that could be from many other things, but *sigh*, most pro-evolution sites will claim it had to of come from an event like the Big Bang.

A ratio of 3:1 of hydrogen and helium, very good, although I fail to see any more connections between that and the Big Bang and that and a waffle.

Let's say for the sake of it, I have an idea about the entire universe coming from a waffle. This waffle like thing had a 3:1 ratio as well. The Big Bang and the Waffle Theory both state they had 3:1 ratios of hydrogen and helium, now, just because one states a known fact already, does it make it any more probable? No.

Nobody's saying we evolved from nothing. However:

1). Almost entirely stratified fossil record.
2). Basic genetic similarity of all organisms.
3). Anatomical similarities between organisms.

Simply because organisms are alike in many ways does not make it any more probable that we actually did.

To clarify #3, take a look at this whale skeleton:

See the vestigial hind leg? Of course, several anti-evolution sites claim that it's nothing but a mutation. *sigh*

See the vestigial hind leg? Of course, several pro-evolution sites claim that it has to be evolution. *sigh*

I can use the same logic you just used, once again, it will seem logical to you if you agree with it, and illogical if you don't. Each group thinks the idea is very logical while each group thinks the other group's idea is totally illogical and will just claim that they're wrong.

I think the issue here is that you're assuming that there is a purpose in life, and you're waiting to be disproved. However, why would you believe that there's a purpose when science has uncovered no evidence of one?

I fail to see evidence to prove there isn't one.

Hold on, there. Evolution is a theory, a well substantiated amalgamation of facts, evidence, predictions, and explanations that is logically self-consistent.

Hold on there, Creationism is a theory, a well substantiated amalgamation of facts, evidence, predictions, and explanations that is logically self-consistent.

The Bible gives facts, gives evidence, gives predictions, and explanations and to me and billions of others that are logically self-consistent. Simply because it isn't to you and the scientific community doesn't make it any less logical.

Also, note: To say that implies that you chose to be a Creationist. You chose to suppose that all evidence was faked, or inconsequential. You chose to deny what your senses are telling you.

I could say the same thing about being an Evolutionist, once again, opinions...

The only real problem is that we don't know what caused the Big Bang. Yet, I also don't know how an intelligent, conscious being that lives outside the universe can create something from nothing.

He doesn't live outside the universe, he is omnipresent. He's not a being like you or I, nothing of the sort. I can't explain what he is, because even if I tried, our human minds would fail to comprehend the full idea of God.

One could just as easily claim that you are corrupted by the views of what you are taught in church.

One could more easily claim that you are corrupted by worldly views.

 

[Shredderbeam]

The expansion of the universe doesn't disprove Creationism nor prove the Big Bang happened.

It's some evidence that would seem to indicate, at first glance, that the universe is expanding from a point.

Microwave background radiation, once again, it doesn't prove anything, that could be from many other things, but *sigh*, most pro-evolution sites will claim it had to of come from an event like the Big Bang.

Well, it technically could have come from any source, but it makes quite a bit of sense to think that it came from the Big Bang. It was also predicted by the Big Bang model before being discovered.

A ratio of 3:1 of hydrogen and helium, very good, although I fail to see any more connections between that and the Big Bang and that and a waffle.

It was predicted by the model.

Let's say for the sake of it, I have an idea about the entire universe coming from a waffle. This waffle like thing had a 3:1 ratio as well. The Big Bang and the Waffle Theory both state they had 3:1 ratios of hydrogen and helium, now, just because one states a known fact already, does it make it any more probable? No.

Waffles don't have a 3:1 ratio of hydrogen and helium (significant since they are the simplest elements).

Simply because organisms are alike in many ways does not make it any more probable that we actually did.

The similarities are such that would not be terribly easily explained by alternative models. It fits neatly into evolution.

See the vestigial hind leg? Of course, several pro-evolution sites claim that it has to be evolution. *sigh*

That seems logical to me. After all, the alleged "missing link" fossil between the land animal that the whale evolved from and the whale itself had hind legs.

Well, I sighed because it would be an odd mutation to have in every whale.

I can use the same logic you just used, once again, it will seem logical to you if you agree with it, and illogical if you don't. Each group thinks the idea is very logical while each group thinks the other group's idea is totally illogical and will just claim that they're wrong.

True, but a good philosopher will evaluate them both in an unbiased manner and come to a fair conclusion.

I fail to see evidence to prove there isn't one.

If something doesn't exist, it doesn't produce evidence of its non-existence. There is no evidence of there being cheese on my monitor, but I don't assume that it's unknown.

Hold on there, Creationism is a theory, a well substantiated amalgamation of facts, evidence, predictions, and explanations that is logically self-consistent.

The Bible gives facts, gives evidence, gives predictions, and explanations and to me and billions of others that are logically self-consistent. Simply because it isn't to you and the scientific community doesn't make it any less logical.

The Bible doesn't give evidence, and its predictions are a bit vague.

Science is basically looking at the world, and saying "Ok, let's take it at face value". The evidence makes it seem that the world is billions of years old. It might not be, but it would take a supernatural act to make that the case. I haven't seen any evidence of a supernatural force, and since things that don't exist do not produce evidence of their nonexistence, then, as a scientist, I am disregarding it until I see some evidence.

I could say the same thing about being an Evolutionist, once again, opinions...

Yes, of course. I was merely saying that in response to his statement of "you choose evolution". Just reminding him of the alternative side of that.

He doesn't live outside the universe, he is omnipresent. He's not a being like you or I, nothing of the sort. I can't explain what he is, because even if I tried, our human minds would fail to comprehend the full idea of God.

Then he is part of the universe, or at least not beyond it. If so, then he is constrained by its limits.

One could more easily claim that you are corrupted by worldly views.

>.>

That was what imnotcrazy357 accused me of in the first place. I was reminding him of the alternative side.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

It's some evidence that would seem to indicate, at first glance, that the universe is expanding from a point.

so we can tell that its expanding from a single point, but can you tell where that point is?

That seems logical to me. After all, the alleged "missing link" fossil between the land animal that the whale evolved from and the whale itself had hind legs.

If this was the case, we should have millions of fossils of a transitional form burried in the sand, when coming from sea to land.

If something doesn't exist, it doesn't produce evidence of its non-existence. There is no evidence of there being cheese on my monitor, but I don't assume that it's unknown.

If something does not exist (purpose of life) then it doesn't produce evidence of its non-existence (it doesn't produce evidence of purpose)

Thats what I can understand from this. Then why is there evidence from the Bible, that gives us purpose of life. If so then there must of once existed a purpose of life, that has been lost forgotten, or maybe written in some book?

I haven't seen any evidence of a supernatural force, and since things that don't exist do not produce evidence of their nonexistence, then, as a scientist, I am disregarding it until I see some evidence.

Closing your mind to the possibility of evidence, isn't this similar the claim of that creationist often give to evolutionist.

Yes, of course. I was merely saying that in response to his statement of "you choose evolution". Just reminding him of the alternative side of that.

>.>

That was what imnotcrazy357 accused me of in the first place. I was reminding him of the alternative side.

I actually accused I am you aint I because he had very bias oppinions.

 

[Shredderbeam]

so we can tell that its expanding from a single point, but can you tell where that point is?

If the universe is finite, we could probably roughly find it.

If this was the case, we should have millions of fossils of a transitional form burried in the sand, when coming from sea to land.

Millions? No, we're lucky to get a few.

If you're curious, though, here's the image:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/images/shermer_whale.gif

If something does not exist (purpose of life) then it doesn't produce evidence of its non-existence (it doesn't produce evidence of purpose)

Thats what I can understand from this. Then why is there evidence from the Bible, that gives us purpose of life. If so then there must of once existed a purpose of life, that has been lost forgotten, or maybe written in some book?

The Bible is a book. Writing down "This is the purpose of life" isn't really evidence.

Closing your mind to the possibility of evidence, isn't this similar the claim of that creationist often give to evolutionist.

I'm hardly closing my mind. To accept God means I have to accept the IPU, the FSM, Xeno, etc. Once you find some evidence, I'll gladly take a look at it.

I actually accused I am you aint I because he had very bias oppinions.

Oh, ok. Well, just showing the opposite side.

 

[jebckr]

so we can tell that its expanding from a single point, but can you tell where that point is?

You do realize this would be like finding a needle in a haystack the size of the sun?

If something does not exist (purpose of life) then it doesn't produce evidence of its non-existence (it doesn't produce evidence of purpose).

Why must there be a purpose to life?

Thats what I can understand from this. Then why is there evidence from the Bible, that gives us purpose of life. If so then there must of once existed a purpose of life, that has been lost forgotten, or maybe written in some book?

See previous...

Closing your mind to the possibility of evidence, isn't this similar the claim of that creationist often give to evolutionist.

Umm, what evidence? Faith dosn't count.

 

[TJ]

and thats soo sweet, you have a bed time!

Um yes, im also 16 years of age and go to school

i go to bed sooner or later.

i bet you do to, unless you are imortal.

 

[DemonSkull]

I believe in the Evolution therory. The theroy that one single being created the entire universe just seems ill- logical to me.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

If the universe is finite, we could probably roughly find it.

Wouldn't finding the center of the universe greatly help us?

Millions? No, we're lucky to get a few.

If you're curious, though, here's the image:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/images/shermer_whale.gif

Try to think of this logically, alright? for millions of years much longer then man has intelligently existed, there where animals evolving from the ocean to the land. During this time I would say millions would have died in this evolutionary process, when transforming from sea creatures to land creatures. They probably died on the beach, washed ashore when trying to live on land.

Now if you go stand in the ocean, and just try to keep your feet there when they tide is pulling you out, what happens? you get burried in the sand. Perfect conditions for fossilisation. This would mean that there should be many fossils in the sand of these creatures?

The Bible is a book. Writing down "This is the purpose of life" isn't really evidence.

alrighty.

I'm hardly closing my mind. To accept God means I have to accept the IPU, the FSM, Xeno, etc. Once you find some evidence, I'll gladly take a look at it.

alright.

Oh, ok. Well, just showing the opposite side.

mk

You do realize this would be like finding a needle in a haystack the size of the sun?

I'm not very diverse in the topic, but above I believe posted was that radio waves were produced from the big bang. if the waves are shooting out in all directions it wouild be pritty simple to pinpoint where the waves are coming from. Picture your bathtub filled with water. Drop a coin in it, it is pritty simple to tell where the waves are comnig from.

Why must there be a purpose to life?


See previous...

Why must there be no purpose of life?

Umm, what evidence? Faith dosn't count.

I never claim for faith to be evidence.

Um yes, im also 16 years of age and go to school

i go to bed sooner or later.

i bet you do to, unless you are imortal.

thats nice, I am only 15. I go to school also. I don not have a bed time. I never said I didn't go to bed, but this is off topic.

 

[TJ]

Now if you go stand in the ocean, and just try to keep your feet there when they tide is pulling you out, what happens? you get burried in the sand. Perfect conditions for fossilisation. This would mean that there should be many fossils in the sand of these creatures?

Some fossils probably got destroyed by the inhabitants of said environment. Like how people bulldoze land, you never know, there could be fossils that they destroy

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Some fossils probably got destroyed by the inhabitants of said environment. Like how people bulldoze land, you never know, there could be fossils that they destroy

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Society wouldn't have destroyed these fossils, people do not live on sand silly.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Wouldn't finding the center of the universe greatly help us?

We don't know if the universe is infinite or not, so we really can't even try.

Try to think of this logically, alright? for millions of years much longer then man has intelligently existed, there where animals evolving from the ocean to the land. During this time I would say millions would have died in this evolutionary process, when transforming from sea creatures to land creatures. They probably died on the beach, washed ashore when trying to live on land.

Now if you go stand in the ocean, and just try to keep your feet there when they tide is pulling you out, what happens? you get burried in the sand. Perfect conditions for fossilisation. This would mean that there should be many fossils in the sand of these creatures?

Perfect conditions? Hardly. They need to be buried very quickly, remain undisturbed for an unimaginably long time, etc.

I'm not very diverse in the topic, but above I believe posted was that radio waves were produced from the big bang. if the waves are shooting out in all directions it wouild be pritty simple to pinpoint where the waves are coming from. Picture your bathtub filled with water. Drop a coin in it, it is pritty simple to tell where the waves are comnig from.

All we can detect is differing levels of microwave radiation. We have a reference point other than Earth, so we cannot tell where they're centered.

Why must there be no purpose of life?

I don't know why you'd believe something if there was no evidence of its existence.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

We don't know if the universe is infinite or not, so we really can't even try.

Im not very diverse on the subject, if the universe is infinite, is the Big Bang Theory still relevant?

Perfect conditions? Hardly. They need to be buried very quickly, remain undisturbed for an unimaginably long time, etc.

waves, bury objects in sand very quickly.

All we can detect is differing levels of microwave radiation. We have a reference point other than Earth, so we cannot tell where they're centered.

alrighty.

I don't know why you'd believe something if there was no evidence of its existence.

I don't understand how this relates

 

[Shredderbeam]

Im not very diverse on the subject, if the universe is infinite, is the Big Bang Theory still relevant?

Yes, it is. It's kind of hard to explain how an infinite thing can stretch, but think of it in terms of more than three dimensions.

waves, bury objects in sand very quickly.

They also erode them very quickly. Waves are an eroding force, not a creating force.

I don't understand how this relates

Well, apparently, you believe that there is a purpose to life. However, I don't understand why you would if there isn't any evidence to support it.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Yes, it is. It's kind of hard to explain how an infinite thing can stretch, but think of it in terms of more than three dimensions.

What is the portion that is streching? It seems that if it was to be expanding, that nothing would be coming out of the expanstion.

They also erode them very quickly. Waves are an eroding force, not a creating force.

The sand would act as a protection barrier for the bones, to me it seems logical, that there should be many fossils should be there, but I do not know much of the fossilization process.

Well, apparently, you believe that there is a purpose to life. However, I don't understand why you would if there isn't any evidence to support it.

I claim the Bible to be evidence for me, but no one in the athiest community accepts that as evidence, so there is no purpose to present the information.