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Communism..Good or bad?

Discussion in 'Something For All' started by TJ, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. Sythe

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Yes but you are still committing a crime and your action is immoral. Simply because you are too foolish to save money does not mean someone else must be forced to pay your way through life. The world owes you nothing. You are nobody. You have the right to screw your own life up, but not the lives of others.
     
  2. Shredderbeam

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    But why is it immoral, in terms of this specific situation?
     
  3. Sythe

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Morality is subjective. You might as well ask why is murder immoral. I can tell you why its illogical, impractical, and detrimental to society as a whole. But I can't tell you why its immoral because morality is subjective.

    I might add that you don't belong in civilized society if you believe stealing is justified by your immediate need for medical attention or food.
     
  4. Shawn_

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    To an extent you have a moral obligation to give someone immediate medical attention if they require it. Morality doesn't stem from our evolutionary roots in natural selection; but rather from what society believes is right or wrong. An ethical relativist, for example would say that morality is defined by the society's tolerance for that action depending on where you are in the world. However an ethical egoist would say that a person is acting moral if they are acting in their own long-term best interests. It is true that death is a necessary evil, but at the same time, as you have brought up eliminating bad genes from the gene pool, I'm assuming you are talking about natural selection. Natural selection does not have a set of rules that states an animal cannot steal from another animal to better themselves. In fact, immoral or moral that would be promoted within the confines of natural selection. Either we are forces as a species to define our morality based off of something, or to revert to our evolutionary instincts; fundamentally survival of the fittest.
     
  5. Gnomey

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Umm, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you have vision problems.

    The girl with cancer can't help the fact she has cancer. As such, she does deserve help from people who can give it (such as from the sound of things, yourself). In a communist society, that girl wouldn't be able to get as much help because some money would be wrapped up with that lazy janitor. Capitalism allows you to decide where your money goes.
     
  6. Blankothe3rd

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Well, because most of you got it wrong... Communism is when the Government owns all property and owns it. If you didn't know, you CAN make a country if the land is yours (Provided that its not mortgaged or owned by anyone). So I would say that Communism is a neutral thing.
     
  7. TJ

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    Communism..Good or bad?



    i didnt get anything wrong, i said that and also that there are no social classes.

    gf
     
  8. Shredderbeam

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Cool, you understand. Not many people do, and keep on trying to claim that morality is objective.

    And yes, I would agree with you to say that those who steal should not be part of society.

    However, being in that position, it would be hard to rationalize not stealing when the life of somebody I knew was at stake.
     
  9. TJ

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    i agree with shredder on this, if you know someone in your life is at stake, then i would try to do anything rational to get them the help they needed.
     
  10. Sythe

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    This would be an emotional knee-jerk reaction, something quite human.

    In the event that someone close to you was in mortal peril theft would still be a last resort. First you would attempt to attain a loan from whoever would listen to your plee. And even in the worst case scenario the theft would likely be made on the moral premise that you would return it at a later date; thus making it a forced loan rather than outright theft - marginally more moral.
     
  11. Sythe

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    I disagree with you. Species of high intelligence court different rules than those of the norm.

    To make a long argument short...

    Human selection extends far past simply that of the natural environment.

    Empathy is an example of an evolutionary trait which manifests within consciousness (as opposed to physical traits). It is likely that morality, although subjective, is derived primarily from empathy (the ability to share emotions).

    Empathy is an important group survival instinct.

    Families and extended families tended to form tribal units in our early hunter-gatherer evolutionary stages. Then, with the advent of agriculture, families formed townships and villages.

    So, while you may have a moral and empathetic obligation to provide a needy person with medical attention, you have a much stronger and more hardwired obligation/requirement to provide a member of your own family with medical attention.

    Natural selection and morality are not mutually exclusive if you recognize that humans form families (and groups of families) and these collective units tend to be subject to evolution in their own way. Thus theft, murder and slavery within a group, or set of groups, ends up being detrimental to the survival of the whole.

    On a side note; It is interesting how perverted our own society has become. We have moved a long way toward fascism, from freedom. The individual is largely cut off from his family, and the family from their larger township group. As government absorbs more of the responsibilities of parenthood the children cease to be those of the biological parents and increasingly become children of the state. Much of the common knowledge from just two generations ago has been lost due to the advent of public schools and full time employment.

    Multi-disciplined learning is becoming largely extinct. People are unaware of how the world around them operates, only focusing on the tasks and procedures they have been taught and that they need for their work.

    This puts us in a dangerous position. Cut off from our natural form and increasingly compartmentalized and dumbed down. Are we so different from the bovine in their field? Divorced from their natural environment, ear tagged, and divided into paddocks and farms (and ultimately industry) based on their traits.
     
  12. TJ

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    how do you assume i have a vision problem from my statement i made?
     
  13. Gnomey

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Uhh, no.Look underneath the area where I said you have vision problems. I quoted myself from the post you were trying to refute stating that if someone had a medical issue they deserved help from those who can afford it, and then encouraged you to spend time and money there rather than at the homeless shelter. In other words, you tried to refute my post with something I agreed with.

    Let's try it again.

    You asked me why I posted this when the reason was right underneath it. Will it work this time? ;)

    Fyi, I'm just kidding about the vision thing... if you're sensitive about your... uhh... eyes let me know. I only intend to offend people I dislike, and you're neutral.
     
  14. TJ

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    hmmmz

    im not sensitive about anything really,

    just didnt understand why you said it..

    now i do :p

    sorry.
     
  15. Gnomey

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Oh, it's not a problem. I was just kidding about giving you a hard time.

    Sythe and Shredders discussion is too... broad picture for me. If I can't talk for a page about the same bunch of random facts that I take out of context I don't stand a chance making a point. So, I just nitpick at your words instead.

    EDIT: Thanks to tips from Ibraham Al (sp?), I have now gotten my PPD average up to 1! If only people thought that posts meant trustworthiness, and there was a need for Middlemen...

    EDIT EDIT: Mods, please don't take that out of context and think I intend to scam... I was just kidding.
     
  16. EL17E

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Under most systems... No. People work like animals and get food stamps and over gradual periods of time some grants. If you speak out against or criticize the government then they'll prosecute you.
     
  17. DropKick Murphys

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    Is that supposed to be funny?
     
  18. mcnuggetman

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    communism would be perfect there is just one thing is wrong everyone is different
     
  19. GhostEntity

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    I did a huge paper on communism in my philosophy class. The bottom line is exactly as I am u ain't i stated the idea only seems to work on paper
     
  20. KenKBS

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    Communism..Good or bad?

    idea and concept good, but it would never work, humans cannot as a whole work toward a common equal good, someone always wants more GREED is the seed of all evil,
     
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