Clearer rules on releasing scammers info to public

I think we need a rework on the rules surrounding the release of information of scammers. There are multiple threads containing scammer's info but it's not warranted. Here's one in particular that people use still to this day: http://www.sythe.org/market-discussion/1500380-paypal-blacklist-making-trades-safer.html


Current rule on disclosure of personal information:
Users will be banned for 1 month for:

• posting information such as private emails / MSNs, private Skype accounts, Facebook accounts, addresses, phone numbers, private photos, etc. of someone other than yourself without explicit consent of that person will result in up to a 1 month ban regardless of whether or not the information is publicly available.

Obviously this rule is not enforced. There are multiple threads scattered throughout Sythe containing this type of info on scammers. One is listed above.

Some scammers may not be a threat to the community once they are banned, but some continue to scam using the same information they scammed with previously. One way we can put a stop to this is releasing the scammer's info in a public sticky or a thread that is monitored by staff. I understand this may require extra work, but it should help the part of the community that deserves this time spent. It will help prevent future scams, not only on Sythe but anyone that may google the payer's information.

The rules are too laxed. You need to have more strict rules in place so people aren't banned for reasons unknown. I suggest reworking the rules around scammers and actual Sythe members to help better the community. It will reduce confusion in the future and help put stop to serial scammers.

I think if a member has scammed, and the ban was warranted that person's payment information should be released to the public. Only until that person is unbanned/pardoned should he/she be able to request that information be taken down. The only information that shouldn't be publically available is the verification you may have received while doing a service for someone. Let's say if someone sent in ID photo, that shouldn't be released to the public as it is way too personal and could cause problems in the future for that scammer(may god save his soul). Information that can be included is the address, phone number, payment email, and first/last name.

I don't think the current rule needs reworked for active Sythe members everyone is entitled to their privacy, but once you scam you forfeit that right.

I'd like to hear what the community has to offer for possibly a new set of clearer rules regarding this.

 

I agree that releasing info of people banned for scamming is ok.

 

I believe scammers info should be released if they scam.

 

How much of a scammers information would be acceptable? There's a massive grey area to get lost in.

 

You do realize to fake any kind of email is possible? It doesn't matter if you share the information of a scammer, since everything could be fake. What if they use hacked emails, stolen names and/or numbers? Sythe would be naming and shaming someone who has got nothing to do with this. I mean its a really difficult area. Getting "not" scammed is very easy actually.

If the deal is too good to be true, it probably isn't.
If the guy acts shady, the deal is probably shady.
If the guy continues on saying he is in a rush, and tries to rush you, he's a scammer.

There are a lot of middlemen on the forums and what not to be prevented to getting scammed. If you get scammed in anno 2016 by a new comer, its really our own fault. A life experience everyone atleast had once.

 

Yup.

I understand that people that scam and don't feel any remorse or don't attempt to repay aren't the sort of people we want around here, however it gets to a point that posting all of there personal information leads can lead to literally anyone on the internet getting in contact with them and harassing them and potentially their family.

I agree that the rules need to be clearer, however it's a huge grey area. Ultimately, I think it should be decided that no-ones personal details can be released without the permission of the staff. Keep it on a case by case basis.

There's a current instance where a banned members personal ID was floating around, I think everyone understands that fake details could be used, but in some recent cases, real information is being released, and while scammers are breaking the law, is it really our right to be the police in this situation and release a load of information to the internet?

 

Actually, human rights: Article 12 says that everyone has the right to a clear name & right to privacy. More information: http://www.claiminghumanrights.org/udhr_article_12.html

 

Firstly to address this quote, that's from the UN which is a governing authority of literally nothing. This is the internet.

Secondly, staff have already come to a conclusion regarding this, though we may have to bring it back up.

I do apologise, it appears the change in the rule wasn't made. That shouldn't have happened, I'll make sure that's fixed (and whoever is at fault will be immediately and switly stabbed with a metaphorical branding iron. We all make mistakes.)

Will open up a new staff discussion after a game of lig, but this thread is going to stay open. Please keep opinions coming on the rule!

 

I agree and that's one of the issues that needs to be decided on. I gave some examples in OP on what can be included and what shouldn't be. Providing too much info could be a bonus, it would possibly deter people from scamming if they knew all their info would be brought to public.

I'd like to hear more from others about this potential issue of releasing too much info that could garnish a problem for a scammer.

I understand fake information could be a huge problem but it doesn't downsize the fact people still use real information too. Even if someone were to use fake info it could still help in the future. Whether or not the payment was from the account owner it should not matter, you can't prove it. Fraud was still committed therefore the "scammer's" info should be released.

These are great trading practices, but it doesn't mean this won't help. A simple Sythe or google search could save you from being scammed.

 

Sythe > UN

 

I am also fine with realeasing scammers information, but it should be written somewhere visible that if a person scams, his/her information can be posted publicly.

 

I don't see why the information should be hidden to be quite honest. I don't think we should defame their names by trolling in the Spam Forum, but I do believe their information should be available to prevent future scamming.

I also agree to letting people know that their information will be available in a "database", possibly in a ToS as you're creating your account, or an addition to the rules.

 

What about this being added to a scam report:

Skype:
Paypal email:
Paypal name:
Registered email:
SVU information (excluding addresses):

Its not giving a way any information a person didn't provide. If a report is found false someone can report it and have the info removed/ report deleted. When pardoning a person should already link scam reports they were involved in and once accepted the info could be removed?

I personally don't see the point of SVU if nothing can be done with it.

 

Honestly I think all a scammers information should be allowed to be released if guilty and doesn't pay his victims within x amount of time, x being whatever staff decide, that should keep some scammers away from this website.

 

Why not the address? That would easily make a ton of people stop scamming.

 

What would happen if somebody is hacked, and he or she cannot afford to payback what the hacker scammed? Does his or her name get publicly shamed online? Also, how would you know if the information of a scammer is legitimate? What if he or she is using the alias of another person, and that person gets publicly shamed for nothing? I'm not liking this idea.

 

Because an address affects more than the scammer. Most scammers don't own a household on here and you're publishing the parent's house hold not the scammer's in most cases. If someone's parents decide to sell their house or look for a job and the person interested googles the property the parent shouldn't be punished for owning the house someone scammed in.

 

I think it should be

Name:
Email(s):
Paypal Email:
Location: for example, north/south in a specific state/country/town.
Any accounts they may have sold/pictures of evidence:\
Any aliases they go by:
Skype account(s):

(all of this with evidence to back it up that they're all linked together)

I don't think most people will have phone #'s/Facebook/address unless ID is provided, and even then I wouldn't have Phone#/FB/Address/PHOTO ID publicly accessible as now you're giving anyone and everyone a direct line of communication to that person, and young/immature kids get bored, and that's unsafe to have someones ID floating around on the internet.

I'd say the only people who would need the exact address are victims who have a legal obligation, and anyone else already can check the basic log of information, and if it's a Paypal transaction your address is already visible.


Who's to stop someone from posting someones phone # online and then 10 minutes later creating a craigslist ad with that # for something, or maybe someone changes their number and it's handed out 6 months from now and someone decides to mess with the phone # and spam/harass someone else.

I think the address thing isn't warranted as most people who are on these black market forums don't own a home let alone own their own car.

Facebook/social media's people can contact family members/mom/dad act inappropriate/stalk a family member. (with someones full name people can already do this, but it makes it a little more difficult if direct links aren't provided right to someones family).

Phone #: who's to say in 3 months that'll even be their phone number, now someone is stuck with harassment calls/texts/spamming.

Things that stick to someone are, their name, their email, their Paypal.

Possibly for anyone who is joining Sythe, add it into the user agreement.

"if you provide such information, and later down the road something occurs and you are held responsible we will upload everything we have, such as; Name/Email/PayPal Email/ Whereabouts"


How would you go about a great user joining, gets SVU is legitimate for years to come and one day he's hacked, do you post all of his information everywhere, or do you treat him different? "because it wasn't actually him"?

Now I'm not saying, don't make it known who these people are.

If someone scams you and now you're mad, and you go blowing up their phone/sending things to their house/ possibly illegal things in the mail, now that's not a simple "screw you", that's now you doing black hat/harassment and now a ban is warranted for you right?

I also think this information should be submitted to a moderator(s) who run a specific thread, and not just a straight up dox in spam forum/another part of the site. I also believe falsely accusing someone on any part of the site without sufficient evidence is warranted for a ban/slandering of someone's reputation. If you make a valid report and it's missing something and or you're banned and later that person is found to be guilty during your ban/infraction (however it works) point system or whatever is reversed.

Edit: but now someone can make the argument, "don't scam".

It goes both ways.

 

I do not support this suggestion for the following reasons.

1. Staff has to decide on a case-by-case basis whether or not the scammers information should be published. In case of an hacked account this could be an issue. Staff doesn't always know if a Sythe account is hacked or not. You don't want to publicly post personal information of a legit Sythe member.
2. It will take a lot of staff time while not making Sythe a better place. Scammers will keep scamming with new accounts and fake information.
3. I don't think it's legal to publish or even save this kind of personal information
4. You won't scan the whole report a scammer section before each trade to get to know if you're trading a scammer. That means there's no use for the information posted publicly.
5. People with legit information will just pretend to be hacked to prevent the release of it.

 

1. 2FA; require an account to be 2FA'd in order to donate.
2. You can only scam so many times with a verified PayPal before you run out of names; having a list of scammer IDs would help a ton. I'm pretty sure you aren't in the market enough to understand how big of an issue this is.
3. They gave you the picture; you have their consent to keep it as long as you don't misuse their information.
4. This information can be saved in a single thread and updated by people currently being chargebacked.
5. This doesn't even make sense. If they chargeback, obviously it was them?

That's for PayPal, if you scam as SVU your PayPal should be released on this list as well. In fact, an ID should be sent in for SVU purchases and you should be forced to 2FA when purchasing SVU. If they can't provide ID, it isn't their PayPal, obviously. If you're going to say "this is a waste of time for staff", I'll fucking do it if it means stopping a mass of potential scammers.