Boy Scouts and Gays

[kill dank]

So recently there has been a lot of talk about the Boy Scouts of America changing their policy regarding the admission of gay boys and men into their organization. Currently they do not allow it but there is a vote scheduled to make the final decision regarding this matter. As a former Boy Scout, I'm curious as to what your opinions are on this issue...

 

[mage3158]

I honestly don't see the issue with gays being admitted into the boyscouts in the first place. Seems like an archaic and prejudice rule.

 

[The Riddler_]

So there's a Boy Scouts of America, Girl Scouts of America, is there going to be a Gay/Lesbian Scouts of America?

 

[Everdred]

Ver, very prejudice rule to begin with. They should have always aloud gays to join.

 

[kill dank]

I honestly don't see the issue with gays being admitted into the boyscouts in the first place. Seems like an archaic and prejudice rule.

Well, the thing is, our society has always advocated separation of the sexes. Men and women have different bathrooms, sleeping quarters, changing rooms, and the like. This is not because we as a society are discriminating against them, but because of their attraction to one another. The point is not whether or not the individual would act upon their natural urges, but rather, not giving them a chance to.

With that in mind, it only makes sense to separate gay and straight men/boys in this instance. Since sexual attraction is not only limited to members of the opposite sex as was thought to be the norm years ago, we cannot base these sort of rules on the traditional idea that sex is only between men and women and must consider all parties involved.

It's not about discrimination.

 

[JohnK]

not worried a whole lot about the policy change because i can't see it effecting many people anyway. being a former boy scout and young kid myself, there weren't exactly a lot of openly gay 11 year olds lol.

 

[xøx]

Is there any point in which it was necessary to specify whether you are homosexual? I'm guessing not, therefore although it is a totally prejudice rule, I can't imagine it's been that much of an issue, if you wanted to be in the scouts you could simply not specify your sexuality, I doubt anyone is going to pressure a Boy Scout aged boy to state what his sexuality is, hey at that age he may well still have no idea himself

 

[Belumoth]

all i know is that the uniforms are going to look FAB-U-LOUS.

Serious note, it could potentially raise a problem (not saying it will), but it will be dealt with if that time comes.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

With that in mind, it only makes sense to separate gay and straight men/boys in this instance. Since sexual attraction is not only limited to members of the opposite sex as was thought to be the norm years ago, we cannot base these sort of rules on the traditional idea that sex is only between men and women and must consider all parties involved.
It's not about discrimination.

I don't respect this line of argument. I'd have no more issue being naked in front of a gay male friend than in front of a straight male friend. Under your logic, gay boy scouts should be in the girl scouts and lesbian girl scouts should be in the boy scouts. However, there is clearly much more to a gender than who you are attracted to. Gay boys should be able to be in the boy scouts because they are boys, and to not let them into the boy scouts would be discrimination.

 

[Snow Patrol]

Eagle Scout myself.

Lose-Lose for the BSA, having been in the scouting movement for over a decade, it's a much more delicate subject than people realize. I have numerous homosexual friends/acquaintances, and have no problem with gay people, however I'm not entirely too open to the notion simply because I feel as if the controversy of allowing gays to join would only create more problems rather than solve them.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

Eagle Scout myself.

Lose-Lose for the BSA, having been in the scouting movement for over a decade, it's a much more delicate subject than people realize. I have numerous homosexual friends/acquaintances, and have no problem with gay people, however I'm not entirely too open to the notion simply because I feel as if the controversy of allowing gays to join would only create more problems rather than solve them.

Yo snow patrol! Long time no see...

What problems would letting (openly) gay boys join the boy scouts cause?

 

[Belumoth]

Yo snow patrol! Long time no see...

What problems would letting (openly) gay boys join the boy scouts cause?

A sense of security knowing that your child can be left with other boys/adults and there not be any problems.

 

[Divine_God]

A sense of security knowing that your child can be left with other boys/adults and there not be any problems.

What about having a male elementary teacher for a daughter? It's different? No, you have a double standard.

Society attributes homosexuality to sexual misconduct when it is simply not the case.

I agree that any private industry should have the right to associate with whoever they want. What we see here is an emergence of individuals thinking for themselves about homosexuality rather than taking what their religion(s) and society teaches them.

The further we move into the future the more idiotic, bigoted, and ignorant anyone who holds anti-homosexual beliefs will seem.

 

[kill dank]

Eagle Scout myself.

Lose-Lose for the BSA, having been in the scouting movement for over a decade, it's a much more delicate subject than people realize. I have numerous homosexual friends/acquaintances, and have no problem with gay people, however I'm not entirely too open to the notion simply because I feel as if the controversy of allowing gays to join would only create more problems rather than solve them.

I too am an Eagle Scout, which is why I'm interested in this particular issue. I agree with what you're saying and you pretty much summed up my argument in a simplified version.

What about having a male elementary teacher for a daughter? It's different? No, you have a double standard.

Society attributes homosexuality to sexual misconduct when it is simply not the case.

I agree that any private industry should have the right to associate with whoever they want. What we see here is an emergence of individuals thinking for themselves about homosexuality rather than taking what their religion(s) and society teaches them.

The further we move into the future the more idiotic, bigoted, and ignorant anyone who holds anti-homosexual beliefs will seem.

Well, classrooms have always been mixed gender. They're also not a private organization. Not to mention the teacher has to be qualified for the position as well as undergo a background check before employment. Children also do not sleep and bathe at school.

Sure, society may attribute homosexuality with sexual misconduct, but that's not what this discussion is about. I wouldn't doubt though that by allowing people who are attracted to each other to sleep and shower together that cases of sexual misconduct would increase, it's simple statistics.

What problems would letting (openly) gay boys join the boy scouts cause?

Well, I can see the boy getting harassed simply because guys generally pick on each other. The organization would have to change their policies about sleeping arrangements, shared showers, and the like. Let's also cut out that last part of the Scout Oath about being morally straight, even though that's been around since the founding of the organization. There would be a decline in membership most likely since a lot of straight people would be uncomfortable. Parents may not think it's a good idea for curious little Timmy to have his first sexual experience at Boy Scout camp with another male.

 

[RuneScapeJJ]

I honestly don't see the issue with gays being admitted into the boyscouts in the first place. Seems like an archaic and prejudice rule.

Pretty much this I don't really see why it's a big deal but it must be different in the US.

Here in The Netherlands you are actually seen as gay if you are a boy scout lol.

 

[megaman19]

In my opinion, I don't see an issue with gays joining the Boy Scouts.

If anything, the rule should apply towards child molesters or pedophiles.

They're acting as if just because someone is gay, that means they are after little boys now too?

Being Gay/Lesbian doesn't make you a pedophile. Many Gay/Lesbian couples love kids and have some of their own, Just like any straight couple.

So.. Say there's a straight male teacher at school and he's class has straight females in it. Then that means because he's straight, he's after all the little girls? Because, if that's the road their trying to go down, then I guess we should all be separated based on gender and sexual preference.

Come on now... Anyway society can bring down anyone for being different.. They sure in heck will..

 

[SuF]

Pretty much this I don't really see why it's a big deal but it must be different in the US.

Here in The Netherlands you are actually seen as gay if you are a boy scout lol.

The US boy scouts organization is Christian, like conservative Christian. Many conservatives still see homosexuallity as a disease to be treated.

I think that allowing them in is a great step in the right direction. Breaking down barriers and allowing everyone in is a good thing to do (unless you are talking child rapists or something to that effect).

 

[Snow Patrol]

A sense of security knowing that your child can be left with other boys/adults and there not be any problems.

This pretty much sums up the problems I see arising from accepting homosexuals into the group.

Camping (which is much more prominent in boy scouts than cub scouts, a monthly ordeal in my troop where the adult:child ratio is around 1:3-5, as opposed to once a year in cub scouts where pretty much every cub scout has at least one parent) is in a fairly intimate setting, middle of nowhere woods for an entire weekend.

All that needs to happen once homosexuals are openly admitted is a SINGLE pedophilia case to go down or a sexual harassment claim between scouts and then shit will undoubtedly hit the fan; parents screaming "This would've never happened if we never accepted gays in the first place", and the LGBT community + supporters saying that this is an n=1 case yadda yadda yadda. The end result being back and forth with no progress.

Not to mention the fact that it'll be VERY hard to come to a concrete conclusion as to what ACTUALLY happened. Example being a rowdy scout who doesn't like X adult for whatever reason; starts telling people that X adult touched him inappropriately at 3 in the morning when everyone else was sleeping while they were camping. It's pretty much one person's words versus another, which holds little to no credibility in court. There's no CCTV's in the fucking woods, and even if X adult isn't convicted, their reputation will be forever tarnished (Think Ray Lewis/OJ Simpson/Kobe).

Not to mention any openly gay scouts in the program will no doubt be bullied and harassed once adults have their back turned (Like I said before, roughly 3-5 scouts per adult, and scouts are usually on their own).

As I was saying before; pretty lose-lose for the Boy Scouts which is a shame for such a fine organization.

 

[The Riddler_]

Sure, society may attribute homosexuality with sexual misconduct, but that's not what this discussion is about. I wouldn't doubt though that by allowing people who are attracted to each other to sleep and shower together that cases of sexual misconduct would increase, it's simple statistics.

After any middle school gym class/sports practice the kids can take a shower. It goes on everywhere.

Well, I can see the boy getting harassed simply because guys generally pick on each other.

Who's fault is this? The asshole kids that like to make fun of other people or the gays?
The organization would have to change their policies about sleeping arrangements, shared showers, and the like.

There would be a decline in membership most likely since a lot of straight people would be uncomfortable. Parents may not think it's a good idea for curious little Timmy to have his first sexual experience at Boy Scout camp with another male.

It happens at school also, what's your point? Watch the kids with a more keen eye.

Decline in membership is just subjective people going crazy.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

Well, I can see the boy getting harassed simply because guys generally pick on each other.

That's going to happen no matter where they are, and if they're (openly) gay having them present will probably stop the other kids from using the words "gay" and "faggot" in a derogatory fashion. It will also cause the leaders to be more focused on punishing those who pick on gay kids for being gay.

Let's also cut out that last part of the Scout Oath about being morally straight, even though that's been around since the founding of the organization.

Wow...that is not what "morally straight" means at all. In the scout oath, "morally straight" means being an "ethical agent of the world". It has nothing to do with the other, sexual definition of the word "straight".

There would be a decline in membership most likely since a lot of straight people would be uncomfortable. Parents may not think it's a good idea for curious little Timmy to have his first sexual experience at Boy Scout camp with another male.

Well this would only remove intolerant people's children from the boy scouts...as I said before, male solidarity is a much more important aspect of the gender versus who you are attracted to/want to fuck. As a heterosexual male, I have no problem being "bros" with gay people, and the boy scouts shouldnt take issue with this either.

Also, while researching the boyscouts, I saw they ban atheists and agnostics as well. I wonder why that hasn't been contested yet.... (you'd be hard-pressed to find a church, mosque, or synagogue that banned atheists...)