Artificial Intelligence - The Future of Botting

[Trent!]

Ok, so what is the difference between your powerminer, and mine?

The dropping patterns, which part of the rock is favors, mouse movement patterns, etc. I have teamviewed over 50 users to help set up their bots, and not a single one of their bots mines the same way as mine does.

 

[thr0wback]

The dropping patterns, which part of the rock is favors, mouse movement patterns, etc. I have teamviewed over 50 users to help set up their bots, and not a single one of their bots mines the same way as mine does.

I dont think there are 50 different ways off dropping your inventory (unless youre doing a random ore in your inv).

And yea, maybe your bot is a bit faster then mine, yet it takes longer breaks.
It might click a different spot on the rock then mine, but you can create this in a script too, in fact, you can set it up yourself with allot of scripts nowadays.

Oh and another thing I still don't get -
The major difference is that like a human it is making decisions in real-time.

It makes decisions in real time? Ok, well in the Agility & Mining bot it always (tries) to pre-hover the correct rock/obstacle, hows that making a real time decision?

In fact, every program uses procedures and functions, if you click a button on a application, it will execute 1 procedure or more. This is the same for the rid bots. As soon as you click start, it executes a list of procedures in a loop (like: 2000 ores, do it 2000 times).
Exactly the same as a script.


@First post

No, most do not click on the same pixel, but they do click within a certain pixel radius making them much more detectable.

In fact; RiD clicks colours, which is more detectable.

 

[Npapadopulos]

I have been using the powerminer from level 4-86 and it is working PERFECTLY. i love it and would recommend it to anybody. and its FREE

 

[legittcamper]

I dont think there are 50 different ways off dropping your inventory (unless youre doing a random ore in your inv).

Some bots drop vertically, some drop horizontally, some jump around. Some drop fast, some drop slow, some click in the middle of the drop button, some perfer one side. + many more. if you're good at math you can see how dropping sequences could differ by WAY more then 50 really fast.

And yea, maybe your bot is a bit faster then mine, yet it takes longer breaks.
It might click a different spot on the rock then mine, but you can create this in a script too, in fact, you can set it up yourself with allot of scripts nowadays.

why would you program hundreds, maybe thousands of different outcomes when you can make your program do it for you?

Oh and another thing I still don't get -
The major difference is that like a human it is making decisions in real-time.

It makes decisions in real time? Ok, well in the Agility & Mining bot it always (tries) to pre-hover the correct rock/obstacle, hows that making a real time decision?

The bot guesses the next best possible outcome. (just like a human) A script bot can't do this because it can't decide where the next rock will be on it's own without you telling it to do so. If you want to test this pause the bot, mine yourself and change the mining pattern. The bot will continue with that pattern and eventually it will adjust it's self to the best possible mining pattern

In fact, every program uses procedures and functions, if you click a button on a application, it will execute 1 procedure or more. This is the same for the rid bots. As soon as you click start, it executes a list of procedures in a loop (like: 2000 ores, do it 2000 times).
Exactly the same as a script.

Read the flowchart at the begging of the thread.

In fact; RiD clicks colours, which is more detectable.

No, It uses a mix of colors and 3d object recognition. I put two identical color items (and near identical shapes) into my inventory and my bot was able to tell which one was which without being told/programmed which item is which.

 

[thr0wback]

Some bots drop vertically, some drop horizontally, some jump around. Some drop fast, some drop slow, some click in the middle of the drop button, some perfer one side. + many more. if you're good at math you can see how dropping sequences could differ by WAY more then 50 really fast.

Who wants a bot that drops the ores randomly?

why would you program hundreds, maybe thousands of different outcomes when you can make your program do it for you?

RiD's bot doesn't create the outcome, it picks one of the possible outcomes the coder programmed into the bot. "Fuzzy logic" Which also can be used in scripts (used in some).


"we code many ways of performing each stage then piece them together to produce a unique training style." - RiD

The bot guesses the next best possible outcome. (just like a human) A script bot can't do this because it can't decide where the next rock will be on it's own without you telling it to do so. If you want to test this pause the bot, mine yourself and change the mining pattern. The bot will continue with that pattern and eventually it will adjust it's self to the best possible mining pattern

An script can adjust itself to?
When powermining, it will take the closest rock (logic), and if it is at a 3-rock-spot (or whatever you want to call it) it will pick a random rock, then another random one, and then the last one. Same as rid?

Nexus scripts like a woodcutter know when a tree stump becomes a yew again, therfore it can calc the best possible outcome even better then RiD.

Read the flowchart at the begging of the thread.

The flowchart is total bullshit.

No, It uses a mix of colors and 3d object recognition. I put two identical color items (and near identical shapes) into my inventory and my bot was able to tell which one was which without being told/programmed which item is which.

its 2d object recognition. You cant do 3d recognition without injection.
(If its 3D, why does it always use the same camera angle (rid agility)?).

 

[iLikePaper]

Only the PowerMiner is good now.

The premium bots just doesn't work well.

Fix not make more bots.

 

[JaminB]

As Botting Technology gets better, so will Detecting Technology.

I don't think it will ever be able to detect RiD bots. It looks just as human as you or me. The only give away would be if you were running it 24/7 no breaks.

Ok, so what is the difference between your powerminer, and mine?

The difference is that Nexus powerminers are scripted to make a decision based solely on the environment changes around it. All it knows is that if it is done with task (A) it moves to task (B)

RiD makes these decisions on the fly. Maybe it has finished task (A) and decides to wait a bit before it attempts task (B) or maybe it hasn't completely finished task (A) but moves onto task (B).

 

[thr0wback]

I don't think it will ever be able to detect RiD bots. It looks just as human as you or me. The only give away would be if you were running it 24/7 no breaks.



The difference is that Nexus powerminers are scripted to make a decision based solely on the environment changes around it. All it knows is that if it is done with task (A) it moves to task (B)

RiD makes these decisions on the fly. Maybe it has finished task (A) and decides to wait a bit before it attempts task (B) or maybe it hasn't completely finished task (A) but moves onto task (B).

Not impossible for in a script.

 

[iLikePaper]

The bots is detectable because:

Sometimes it doesn't work properly, like in the forums people posted about bots acting up/stood there for hours.

 

[JaminB]

Th0wback, when 50,000 people are using the exact same script (no matter how random it is) it is pretty easy for Jagex to figure out they are botting. I am sure that Jagex has some algorithm for looking at the how similar botting patterns are to each other. For example they could they could test a pattern and if it is above a 60% match (this is just an example) they punish the account. As a matter of fact, it is very likely they could probably tell you the exact script that you are using.

This is not to say they these scripts will be detected very often. This is simply because Jagex detection system is server-side and not client side, meaning it is not very efficient.

I don't think there are 50 different ways off dropping your inventory (unless you're doing a random ore in your inv).

That simply doesn't make any sense. There are literally an infinite number of possibilities. There are 28 inventory spaces, theoretically if these were dropped randomly there are 304,888,344,611,713,860,501,504,000,000 (28!) ways they can be dropped. That doesn't take into account the factor of infinite time.

 

[thr0wback]

Th0wback, when 50,000 people are using the exact same script (no matter how random it is) it is pretty easy for Jagex to figure out they are botting. I am sure that Jagex has some algorithm for looking at the how similar botting patterns are to each other. For example they could they could test a pattern and if it is above a 60% match (this is just an example) they punish the account. As a matter of fact, it is very likely they could probably tell you the exact script that you are using.

This is not to say they these scripts will be detected very often. This is simply because Jagex detection system is server-side and not client side, meaning it is not very efficient.



That simply doesn't make any sense. There are literally an infinite number of possibilities. There are 28 inventory spaces, theoretically if these were dropped randomly there are 304,888,344,611,713,860,501,504,000,000 (28!) ways they can be dropped. That doesn't take into account the factor of infinite time.

If 50,000 people use RiD (then there rich LOL) they will also find a 60% match, or at least a little match. A script can get as 'random' or different as RiD can, the only limitation in a script is your mind.
About the dropping, there is no1 that ALWAYS drops their inv every time by beginning on slot 5; then slot 3; then slot 7;.... exactly the same. There arent 50 different ways how a human would do it.
I'd say
- Random
- From top left to right down horizontally
- From top left to right down vertically
And then from top right, down left
and the reverse (from down to up)

 

[JaminB]

If 50,000 people use RiD (then there rich LOL) they will also find a 60% match, or at least a little match.

I'm not talking about RiD bots...I was talking about every other scripted bot which is most of them.

 

[krrose27]

Also I find it funny how you are talking about droping patterns..

I did a lot of research and had a lot of feedback from users when developing the one for kMiner.

kMiner drops the columns in a straight row so that when it clicks drop it is already on another ore to drop. This is the fastest way to drop in the game..

Any RS "try hard" will drop their inventory in this way.

As such if you are no lifeing the game you are going to use the best droping method.. It would only look stupid if you spend hours doing cutesy patterns droping ore.

 

[JaminB]

@kkrose

No one is saying that it chooses the highly inefficient method of dropping in a random pattern...you're right that would make no sense.

I was trying to prove to Th0wback that more than 50 ways to drop ore.

 

[JaminB]

I updated the A.I model to so that it more accurately shows the use of machine learning and fuzzy logic. The previous model was very Boolean like and this has now been changed.

 

[thr0wback]

I'm not talking about RiD bots...I was talking about every other scripted bot which is most of them.

I know, and I'm talking about RiD.


Leaving this thread.
The new graph shows that you have no programming experience and you also believe everything that RiD says.

 

[JaminB]

Ok, Th0wback take care. The graph displays a concept not an actual flow chart. Since you yourself are obviously biased toward rough (if, else) scripts you wouldn't understand the basic concept of fuzzy logic.

A fuzzy logic model does not look at 1 being true or 0 being false. Instead 1 is absolute truth and 0 is absolute false. Anything in between somewhat true or somewhat false.

below is an example of a language called FCL which is written on top of java. Notice how it differs with standard Boolean.

// Define input variables
VAR_INPUT
service : REAL;
food : REAL;
END_VAR

// Define output variable
VAR_OUTPUT
tip : REAL;
END_VAR

// Fuzzify input variable 'service'
FUZZIFY service
TERM poor := (0, 1) (4, 0) ;
TERM good := (1, 0) (4,1) (6,1) (9,0);
TERM excellent := (6, 0) (9, 1);
END_FUZZIFY

 

[JaminB]

Does anyone know how the RiD mouse-movements even work. Obviously it's a pretty complicated algorithm, but specifically how was it created. They're very impressive.

 

[Lambda]

(If its 3D, why does it always use the same camera angle (rid agility)?).

Actually.. it doesn't. I got 99 agility using RiD and it would change it quite often.

 

[Shoobies]

i can never get the miner to work :/