[APPROVED] Sythe vouch's correct counting

To add to my previous Support comment.

Mainly for the same issues as Charlotte identified.

There are so many tags in titles related to e-dick measuring contests between vendors with little documentation EASILY ACCESSIBLE should you want to check the validity of the claim.

If a merchant claims to have 5000 vouches, but has 1000 on their vouch topic, then should it really be the customers' responsiblity to check the validity of the "5000" claim? No I don't think so, based off the premise that most customers are looking for a smooth experience so are not going to waste time.

If a merchant is claiming he/she has 5000 vouches, then it should be right to assume that he/she has counted correctly and not ball-parked a figure. That being said, he/she should be obligated to record these vouches if they wish to make a claim.

 

[PureCaper]

I’m gonna start claiming I have 10k vouches.

Jk but it should be punishable to lie abour vouches/trust here. Most people who see these things probably assume it’s afainst the rules and it very well should be.

 

Support, why should anybody be allowed to lie and get away with it about vouches anyways. Ban them

 

[Program]

Support, this was brought up previously and people cried so hard that they'd actually have to count their vouches.

It ended with staff saying that they wouldn't punish it because that'd require them counting the vouches onsite and offsite to prove the individual a liar. That would take forever. And it's hard to win these little battles when we got people on every suggestion thread actively encouraging sneaky and sketchy business tactics.

So the liars will keep acting like they have as many vouches as they claim from various sources because it's too much of a pain to prove them wrong only to hand out a warning.

Still wish we could implement it.

 

support, takes one second to quote your vouches from other threads into your vouch thread. mods shouldn't have to do it once there's a report made based on the belief that one is fabricating their vouch count.

 

Bump

 

I can support. my chicks case was a headache lol

 

Support previously had @Time To Buy count my vouches, now I just quote them into my vouch thread.

 

See now - This is easy for people like @Charlotte to support because I've never publicly seen her have to suffer the pain that what your suggesting would cause(At least, in public, she may of privately).

Right now my vouch thread has between 1700-2250 on it, but my vouch thread doesn't count hundreds of threads that have been up for years or that are years old - In reality my vouch count numbers (likely, estimate) between 3000-5000 strong.

Back years ago I had an incident of saying 1500+ vouches but I only had 100 on my vouch thread, as it turns out, I actually got reported and let me just stress this;

3 staff and I had to spend 12 hours(3 DAYS) going through the archives and pulling over 120-150 threads at the time(NO EXAGGERIATION)

The staff involved literally said they would never handle/do such a case again, that's how long it took and how many tens of thousands of threads the four of us went through together.

Your suggestion is that for every gold site ever that claims vouches to only use whats on their vouch thread - Do you know the scale in which your suggesting?

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THREADS would have to be combed through by staff everytime a report came up, the sheer volume of work is so staggering to think about just for myself let alone everyone else, Staff could literally still be looking through threads until fucking Christmas, this is such a waste of staff time for something that is such a minor issue(I doubt even 10 reports a year are made on this subject).

I shudder to even think about the amount of resources and time that would have to be dedicated to go through some of the older gold sites threads, some gold sites have hundreds of threads they've remade over the years hundreds of pages deep.

This would be a fucking NIGHTMARE, Beyond a nightmare.

I mean I literally shudder at the thought of someone like arcus or food4rs or someone who claims 10k+ vouches but only has 1,000 on their actual vouch thread, they literally have 100+ threads with probably 100 pages each, that's 10,000 pages to go through for 1 report!

This is so unfeasibly large that its almost borderline insane. Unless @Charlotte is volunteering to commit hundreds of hours going through a borderline insane level of pages to count vouches and keep track of them, I NEVER see the amount of time/resources required as being worthwhile ever. There's a reason this has never been done, its a unbelievable amount of waste of staff resources and time for something that might be an issue once a month.

NO, NO, NO SUPPORT.

I agree with divine, if someone gets reported for having a different number of vouches in their title compared to the number of vouches in their actual vouch thread it's going to take a stupidly long time to figure out and fix up.

I believe in off-site vouches too, they may not be as valid as a sythe vouch (since this they're going to be advertising their business on sythe after all) but it's still relevant feedback.

When a customer is about to trade with someone, it's up to the customer to do their own research on the trader and not randomly trust them because it says "X ammount of Feedback" in the title of their thread.



Pros and cons of supporting this:
pros: slightly less deceptive title
cons: like divine said, could cause a damn nightmare

To me the cons outweigh the pros.
For that reason I do NOT SUPPORT

 

Couldnt we just add this suggestion to only count their sythe vouches (which would force users to be active in the sythe community which is a bonus) but also allow them to link their vouch threads somewhere from other credible (approved site list?) sites?

 

or we can have a feedback system with positive neutral or negative and every1 strats from scratch but its easier for staff to keep track

 

A title of mine was edited for "misuse of advertisement"

Based on the vouches I mentioned I had. (200 was listed in title, currently have 170+).

I have 250+ more vouches from 3rd party sites, which were not considered, understandably, towards my "sythe vouches".

It was easy to look at my vouches and count them, as their are under 200 comments on my vouch page, and then altar my thread title to a more accurate standing of my vouches, I just don't see this being done to people with thousands of vouches, which are highly inaccurate and based from a lot of 3rd party "vouches"

I know it's not easy to look at them, it takes a considerable amount of time, where as my vouches would not take long to verify at all, but nothing seems to be done towards them.

I don't see this happening to other vouch pages which have thousands of vouches, but are not accurate at all.

Nothing seems to be done towards the vouch pages which are constantly being bumped for 3rd party vouches. Making it also HIGHLY unfair, for upcoming traders, who want to bump their thread legit, every 6 - 8 hours?

A vouch thread, should not be bumped consistently all day long, unless you are actually getting a train of sales, which come from Sythe, and is verified to be from Sythe

Sythe vouches, should be related to Sythe vouches only.

 

[gambling_babz]

Support. (for a slightly different reason).

Although my gold topics also have vouches on, It's annoying when bigger merchants can simply bribe their customers with rsgp to post vouches on their topics (aka bumping them constantly). (aka Arcus).

I don't really see the point in the vouch thread section if people only record up to a certain amount, and then just not bother. When this happens, "vouches" become nothing more than a loophole to the 8 hour bump rule.

I have 1000+ feedback on powerbot, a few hundred on smaller markets, and tens of thousands of feedback on my amazon and eBay profiles. If I really wanted I could lie in my titles and be like "20,000 vouches".

THIS.

It bothers me beyond belief that people abuse this loophole - that's a whole nother story. On topic, It also infuriates me that people count off-site vouches. In the past that was not a thing. Back in 2012 none of my powerbot feedback carried over. Why would we allow it to get to such a low point that we don't care anymore? Now I'm not saying that this is something that needs to be MONITORED, because that would be asking staff too much. However, if there's no MODERATION - and all the reports will be based on awaiting someone else to report - it will make it a gray area. And gray areas suck on Sythe. With that being said, I think that the only VALID VALID VALID vouches on Sythe are the ones that are counted on your OFFICIAL VOUCH THREAD. Not your bullshit loophole thread, not your fucking ebay account (not saying you Lime, I'm saying other people will probably stoop to this level), and NOT YOUR FUCKING POWERBOT ACCOUNT. Nobody cares about them, HELL.

Edit: This is what should happen.

Somebody claims 7,500 vouches, and there vouch thread only has 3,500? If there are FOUR THOUSAND MISSING VOUCHES THAT PERSON SHOULD BE TWC'ED UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE OTHERWISE BY QUOTING AND POSTING EVERY. SINGLE. VOUCH. NO? @Divine How will you defend this?

 

THIS.

It bothers me beyond belief that people abuse this loophole - that's a whole nother story. On topic, It also infuriates me that people count off-site vouches. In the past that was not a thing. Back in 2012 none of my powerbot feedback carried over. Why would we allow it to get to such a low point that we don't care anymore? Now I'm not saying that this is something that needs to be MONITORED, because that would be asking staff too much. However, if there's no MODERATION - and all the reports will be based on awaiting someone else to report - it will make it a gray area. And gray areas suck on Sythe. With that being said, I think that the only VALID VALID VALID vouches on Sythe are the ones that are counted on your OFFICIAL VOUCH THREAD. Not your bullshit loophole thread, not your fucking ebay account (not saying you Lime, I'm saying other people will probably stoop to this level), and NOT YOUR FUCKING POWERBOT ACCOUNT. Nobody cares about them, HELL.

Edit: This is what should happen.

Somebody claims 7,500 vouches, and there vouch thread only has 3,500? If there are FOUR THOUSAND MISSING VOUCHES THAT PERSON SHOULD BE TWC'ED UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE OTHERWISE BY QUOTING AND POSTING EVERY. SINGLE. VOUCH. NO? @Divine How will you defend this?

I've seen people complain about have huge amounts of vouches, can't a button beside the reply added, "vouch" it quotes the post that the voucher wrote to your vouch thread?

you'll press 1 button after doing a transaction, is that doable?

 

[gambling_babz]

I've seen people complain about have huge amounts of vouches, can't a button beside the reply added, "vouch" it quotes the post that the voucher wrote to your vouch thread?

you'll press 1 button after doing a transaction, is that doable?

I'm sorry but I don't understand what this says.

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand what this says.

^^^^

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand what this says.

^^^^

Didn't explain myself well, sythe adds a button that when you click it quotes vouches, whenever someone vouches you in your gold selling/service thread, It quotes that vouch,numbers it and puts it there ( your original vouch thread). like mine here: bmba Vouches .

 

[gambling_babz]

Didn't explain myself well, sythe adds a button that when you click it quotes vouches, whenever someone vouches you in your gold selling/service thread, It quotes that vouch,numbers it and puts it there ( your original vouch thread). like mine here: bmba Vouches .

If you can flawlessly code that then sure, but that'd be pretty stupid to spend time coding. How would it know the difference between somebody asking a question (THE REASON THAT THEY CAN POST ON THREADS IN THE FIRST PLACE) and a vouch? No, no, no, just no.

 

[S]

Somebody claims 7,500 vouches, and there vouch thread only has 3,500? If there are FOUR THOUSAND MISSING VOUCHES THAT PERSON SHOULD BE TWC'ED UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE OTHERWISE BY QUOTING AND POSTING EVERY. SINGLE. VOUCH. NO? @Divine How will you defend this? [/SIZE]

Right so, what happens to users who've been on this forum for 13 years, and have vouches amassed over 1000's of threads, half which are deleted, half archived, and half god knows where.

So you think it's worthwhile having large business who are already known and established manually count their vouches, and then what? Staff spend another 24 hours manually counting 4000 vouches (as per your example).

What if someone claims 7050 vouches, but in reality have 7000? Are you going to have staff count all said vouches? I personally doubt anyone would care if the parameter of said vouched was <100-500, dependant on total vouches. I.e if you claim 7000 vouches, but have 6800. However, claiming 7000 vouches but having 3000 wouldn't be ignored.

This is a totally impractical solution, and extremely time-inefficient.

There shouldn't be a blanket rule, more so cases assessed on a case-by-case basis. Naturally, if someone claims 1000's vouches, but it's evident they only have 200 or something, then staff can investigate. However, having users who've been on this forum actively trading for over a decade to count all their vouches is absolutely a waste of time.

 

[gambling_babz]

Right so, what happens to users who've been on this forum for 13 years, and have vouches amassed over 1000's of threads, half which are deleted, half archived, and half god knows where.

So you think it's worthwhile having large business who are already known and established manually count their vouches, and then what? Staff spend another 24 hours manually counting 4000 vouches (as per your example).

What if someone claims 7050 vouches, but in reality have 7000? Are you going to have staff count all said vouches? I personally doubt anyone would care if the parameter of said vouched was <100-500, dependant on total vouches. I.e if you claim 7000 vouches, but have 6800. However, claiming 7000 vouches but having 3000 wouldn't be ignored.

This is a totally impractical solution, and extremely time-inefficient.

There shouldn't be a blanket rule, more so cases assessed on a case-by-case basis. Naturally, if someone claims 1000's vouches, but it's evident they only have 200 or something, then staff can investigate. However, having users who've been on this forum actively trading for over a decade to count all their vouches is absolutely a waste of time.

Why's this entire post based around the staff dealing with the issue? If it bothers people enough that they are saturating the amount of vouches users claim to have, they will report it. Clearly, you also did not read my entire post:

Now I'm not saying that this is something that needs to be MONITORED, because that would be asking staff too much. However, if there's no MODERATION - and all the reports will be based on awaiting someone else to report -

Edit: When did I ask for people that have been trading for a decade to count their vouches anyway?
If someone reports them, as stated in like 3 of my posts by now, they should be able to provide those vouches. Without them, why should they claim those vouches to their name?