Apple vs. Samsung

[SuF]

off topic, this is about apple deliberately STEALING and using ideas of apple using patents (legal and approved). if apple was granted a patent for the shape of the phone, Samsung would be violating that patent and be forced to pay the fines, however that's not the claim.

Wut?

It's not stealing if Samsung did it first and someone did it before them and thus the patents are invalid. It also isn't stealing if the law is shit.

 

[Lilly]

Wut?

It's not stealing if Samsung did it first and someone did it before them and thus the patents are invalid. It also isn't stealing if the law is shit.

Sorry, i meant samsung stealing apple's ideas.

It doesn't matter who did it first, it's who perfected it and patented it, which apple did. The thread is about Samsung stealing Apple's ideas and publishing them claiming them as their own.

It doesn't matter if you believe the patents are "invalid". A patent is a patent, it meets the appropriate requirements to be depicted as a patent therefore binding its protection by law. You nor Samsung, apple or myself made the patent act. Nonetheless, if someone violates the law they're held at fault.

 

[Divine_God]

Sorry, i meant samsung stealing apple's ideas.

It doesn't matter who did it first, it's who perfected it and patented it, which apple did. The thread is about Samsung stealing Apple's ideas and publishing them claiming them as their own.

It doesn't matter if you believe the patents are "invalid". A patent is a patent, it meets the appropriate requirements to be depicted as a patent therefore binding its protection by law. You nor Samsung, apple or myself made the patent act. Nonetheless, if someone violates the law they're held at fault.

You're one of those robotic minded sheep who feel that Law supersedes logic and morality.

 

[0belisk]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technolog...g-injunction-fine?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038

^ Heres some more information on it.

Personally i do think Samsung are copying Apple with their tablets, so obviously a knockoff of the iPad.

But Apple are very very greedy, and i don't think they need to be compensated billions for this.

 

[SuF]

Sorry, i meant samsung stealing apple's ideas.

It doesn't matter who did it first, it's who perfected it and patented it, which apple did. The thread is about Samsung stealing Apple's ideas and publishing them claiming them as their own.

It doesn't matter if you believe the patents are "invalid". A patent is a patent, it meets the appropriate requirements to be depicted as a patent therefore binding its protection by law. You nor Samsung, apple or myself made the patent act. Nonetheless, if someone violates the law they're held at fault.

You are not violating the law if the patent is deemed invalid. It happens all the time. A company is not held liable for violating an invalid patent even if it was considered valid at the time of the violation.

 

[Lilly]

You are not violating the law if the patent is deemed invalid. It happens all the time. A company is not held liable for violating an invalid patent even if it was considered valid at the time of the violation.

Understandable and correct, however, the violations weren't depicted as invalid, they did violate some of the patents. The accusations Apple made towards Samsung were spot on, there was technology patented by Apple found in Samsung products, i.e violating the patent.

 

[SuF]

Understandable and correct, however, the violations weren't depicted as invalid, they did violate some of the patents. The accusations Apple made towards Samsung were spot on, there was technology patented by Apple found in Samsung products, i.e violating the patent.

The jury believes they violated some valid patents. None of them are patent lawyers so they could be ass backwards. In addition to this a South Korean court just ruled that Samsung did NOT violate any of Apple's design patents (only technical ones). They also found that Apple violated Samsung's patents.

You seem to have a very bad understanding of how our legal system works. Cases like these will always be appealed and judges will have the final say. In addition to this, saying that Apple can patent a rectangle with rounded corners simply goes against what the law was created to do and it should be changed so that the patent becomes invalid. Even if their appeals fail you can not say that should be valid because it is valid and it appears that is what you are trying to do.

 

[iAGZzzz]

Apple and Samsung file lawsuits against eachother regularly. They both win some and lose some, if you google you will probably find over 100 lawsuits have been filed, most of these are due to a breach in patents (A 20 year "ownership", where others can not copy the product/practise that is patented).

The most recent lawsuit is in favour of Apple, as Samsung have breached the patent put in the techniques of zooming in, and turning an image on a smartphone.

It is a key part of a smartphone, and Samsung using this means Apple will lose sales of their own smartphones. The only reason this particular lawsuit has come to light is because it is a key concept of smartphones, worth USD $650M in profits.

Lawsuits are always an interesting read.

 

[Lilly]

The jury believes they violated some valid patents. None of them are patent lawyers so they could be ass backwards. In addition to this a South Korean court just ruled that Samsung did NOT violate any of Apple's design patents (only technical ones). They also found that Apple violated Samsung's patents.

You seem to have a very bad understanding of how our legal system works. Cases like these will always be appealed and judges will have the final say. In addition to this, saying that Apple can patent a rectangle with rounded corners simply goes against what the law was created to do and it should be changed so that the patent becomes invalid. Even if their appeals fail you can not say that should be valid because it is valid and it appears that is what you are trying to do.

Apparently i'm not the only one.

Apple's engineers found the violations and presented them to the court, as does any major manufacturer, not just Apple, buy products from other publishers to scrutinize and improve their own designs, while doing this these patent violations were discovered and presented. If they weren't violated and weren't Apple's ideas, they wouldn't have been discovered and brought up to the appropriate jury.

 

[mustard2]

Most of those patents are complete bullshit.

The jury on Friday rejected all of Samsung's claims against Apple, but also decided against some of Apple's claims involving the two dozen Samsung devices at issue.

The nine-strong group, which included people with experience at companies including Intel, found that several Samsung products illegally used such Apple creations as the "bounce-back" feature when a user scrolls to the end of a list, and the ability to zoom text with a tap of a finger.

Both of those features are in the android OS, how is that Samsungs fault? Is Apple going to sue every company that makes computers if windows decides to copy OS X in some way? There are only so many ways to make a smartphone. You don't see Omega suing Rolex because their watches are round and go from 1 to 12. (Just to point out how retarded most of those patents are.)

Fact is, Apple and Samsung are competitors, and they'll try to hurt eachother any way they can. If either one sells less products, the other will be able to sell more.

Apple's headquarters is just 10 miles from the San Jose courthouse, and jurors were picked from the heart of Silicon Valley, where Jobs is a revered technological pioneer.

Don't think I can add anything more to that quote.

 

[DMR]

I feel bad for Samsung haha. I read somewhere that Samsung now has to give in 1B to Apple.

 

[slysteeler]

Most of those patents are complete bullshit.



Both of those features are in the android OS, how is that Samsungs fault? Is Apple going to sue every company that makes computers if windows decides to copy OS X in some way? There are only so many ways to make a smartphone. You don't see Omega suing Rolex because their watches are round and go from 1 to 12. (Just to point out how retarded most of those patents are.)

Fact is, Apple and Samsung are competitors, and they'll try to hurt eachother any way they can. If either one sells less products, the other will be able to sell more.



Don't think I can add anything more to that quote.

I think it's inevitable that Apple will try and get other android phones taken off the market as well. The real case is Apple Vs. Google.

 

[Brendan]

There's a difference between indefinatley stealing and practically stealing, apple didn't steal and use patents, Samsung did.

As for your claim of apple using androids messaging system, this is a joke, theres complete differences.

I didn't say their messaging system. I said notification centre, where you swipe down from the top and whatnot. Also, I own an iPhone and really enjoy using it, I'm not an Android fanboy or anything at all. I personally just find that regardless of whether patents are involved or not, Apple take ideas from other companies but get upset when any other company does it. Morally, I find it frustrating.

Samsung had touch phones that looked like the iPhone before the iPhone can out. You can't patent a rectangle with rounded edges but Apple thinks it can.

This.

 

[0belisk]

I think it's inevitable that Apple will try and get other android phones taken off the market as well. The real case is Apple Vs. Google.

I agree!

This is Apple, who knows who their going to attack next, they'll find something else they think other companies are copying and soon go at it.

I understand they want to dominate the global smartphone market but this is so over the top, they already making an insanely high annual profit from smartphones but now need to take the extra step at suing other smartphone companies to trash their profits to further increase their own?

It really is survival of the fittest out there... doggy dog world.

 

[millzlevels]

I was over the moon when I heard the Jury's verdict on this case.
From looking at the evidence apple presented it was very clear that samsung had copied them, willfully. Perhaps the most obvious thing was when we saw the pictures of the phones pre and post iphone release, it was horrendous when samsung seemed to think they could get away with.
I now hope that we move towards a sales ban on all the infringing phones.

 

[slysteeler]

I was over the moon when I heard the Jury's verdict on this case.
From looking at the evidence apple presented it was very clear that samsung had copied them, willfully. Perhaps the most obvious thing was when we saw the pictures of the phones pre and post iphone release, it was horrendous when samsung seemed to think they could get away with.
I now hope that we move towards a sales ban on all the infringing phones.

You shouldn't believe everything that the media tells you, sheep. The real reason that Apple is attacking Samsung, is because they are their main competitors. Apple wants to dominate the market.

Samsung's designs are hardly copying Apple, it's just evolution, the rectangular form factor was already a proven and good design, for a mobile phone. Common sense would tell you to use it.

Those comparison pictures don't tell the whole story, Apple presented those pictures as part of their case. The mobile phone market was moving towards touchscreen even before the release of the iphone 1. LG already had rectangular phones with curved edges and a large touchscreen on them. They would probably have a better case than Apple, if they decided to sue them for infringement.

 

[millzlevels]

You shouldn't believe everything that the media tells you, sheep. The real reason that Apple is attacking Samsung, is because they are their main competitors. Apple wants to dominate the market.

Samsung's designs are hardly copying Apple, it's just evolution, the rectangular form factor was already a proven and good design, for a mobile phone. Common sense would tell you to use it.

Those comparison pictures don't tell the whole story, Apple presented those pictures as part of their case. The mobile phone market was moving towards touchscreen even before the release of the iphone 1. LG already had rectangular phones with curved edges and a large touchscreen on them. They would probably have a better case than Apple, if they decided to sue them for infringement.

I'm guessing you own a samsung.

Samsung were obviously copying everything about apple. I remember my own friend saying the very day he got his Galaxy 1, "I can't imagine using anything but this or an iPhone now". Aka, they are the same.

Also, it was not just about the shape of the phone, you can focus on that all you like but it was not the bulk of the case, as you should know. Look at the icons on an iPhone, then look at the icons on a pre-iphone samsung phone, then look at them on a post-iphone samsung phone. Notice anything different? You sure as hell should. As hey, guess what, they become the same. You may have also noticed during the court case, they became the same right after samsung execs sent emails round commenting on how much they liked the apple icons.
Just incase this is unclear for you, here it is:

Personally I think the icon case is even worse when looking at the two picture icons but hey-ho.

If Samsung wanted to avoid this all they had to do was protect themselves with a greater arsenal of patents. The argument that the ruling will stifle innovation is totally invalid. By being forced to now think out of the box we will see far more innovation from Samsung and they may actually be able to come out with a product of their own. On they other hand, they may just copy someone like RIM instead.

Do not call me a sheep, I can guarantee that I know far more about this case than you, from many sources, not just ones biased to either side.

 

[blitzduck]

Basically what Apple is trying to do is sue all the competition so they can have the smartphone market to themselves. It's a crazy idea, but it's partially working.

 

[slysteeler]

I actually own a HTC phone, so you guessed wrong.

Those icons are really generic, green has been associated with calling for ages. Mobile phones have had green call buttons since their birth.

I'm not denying that Samsung didn't violate any patents from Apple, because they did, they both violated patents from each other. I just dislike the manner that Apple go about patenting every tiny detail, this puts off manufacturers from innovating their phones. I mean you wouldn't want to spend ages designing a mobile phone, and then putting it out on the market, only to find that it infringed some tiny little detail from another phone.

 

[millzlevels]

Don't think I can add anything more to that quote.

Oh dear. You fail to realize that google, who this is really targetted at, is also a silicon valley company. Please research before making stupid points.

And just in case you argue it, yes, it is aimed at Google. Apple is very aware Samsung is the main distributor of the Android operating system which is its real target in all this. Through this trial Apple has been able to build an arsenal to use against Google when that time finally comes. That sir, is the real battle.