ObamaCare

[Tgump]

Since I've seen multiple threads crop up about this, please keep ObamaCare debate to this thread only.

Are you in support of this bill, aimed at providing health care to everyone too poor or lazy to earn it themselves (and providing a huge disincentive to providing health insurance; see here, in the Socialism portion)

Or are you not in favor of the bill, for whatever logical reason? Post here. Please note that all stickies do apply, and that posting unintellectual opinion (opinions not backed by valid facts or evidence) will earn you a forum ban from SFA and an infraction.

 

[sink fauchet]

I'm completely against it, it is going to put too much stress on an already strained economy. It IS true that the country needs health care reform but this bill is not the right one.

In this bill if you don't buy the insurance the first year (which is rather costly) because you don't want it/need it. Your fine is only going to be ... 95$. Yuppz, 95$. What is the incentive for all the younger healthy people to be covered? Which means of course almost no one is going to opt for the insurance immediately and is only going to buy it at the time that they get injured or something because they are forced to accept you no matter what. This is going to fuck over insurance companies. Not to mention all the other companies, big corporations and small business alike.

Think what you want, but I'm only 14 and I know this bill is bullshit.

By the way, Tgump. Your post is slightly biased. I agree with you but you should make the first post more neutral as to not discourage posting .

 

[DropKick Murphys]

Way to start an unbiased thread, should really encourage lots of different view points.

I suppose I'm against it though, because it doesn't really address the root cause of why health care is so expensive.

 

[chaosdestro0]

Health care is too big of a part of the economy for our government to control. America should be a capitalistic society and not socialist.

There is no way the government will stay within any budget they set. Look at NASA, SS, and other gov programs that go over budget.

 

[The Riddler_]

I don't get it. The majority, sets the rules for all?

 

[Canada Man]

I think it's wrong to deny anyone health care, so it's a step in the right direction.

 

[tofurocks]

I think it's good that they are moving towards a more socialized healthcare system like we have in Canada where everyone chips in a little bit and it ensures that nobody has to worry about being covered. I think it's good that healthcare is out of the hands of the insurance companies, who deny claims all the time leaving people to die so that they can save a little bit of money.

 

[sink fauchet]

I think it's wrong to deny anyone health care, so it's a step in the right direction.

You're Canadian, of course you would think that. I'm all for you having whatever the hell you hippie Canadians want but this is America. By the way, no one is denied healthcare unless they can't afford it. Damn hobo's need to get jobs and stop being god-damn moochers.

 

[The Disturbed]

The system was fine for the time it was created until now? This just hits me how one person thinks it's shit and we totally need to reform it. We're reforming the financial sector now. What the fuck is with all this reforming? We never had to reform any sectors until we got a socialist president who wanted the government to regulate the people's systems. The United States was created by the people, for the people. It was not created by the government for the people. Most people seem to forget this, and follow in the steps of the media. Ask yourself one question, "What government will America stand as in 8 years?"

 

We never had to reform any sectors until we got a socialist president who wanted the government to regulate the people's systems.

Firstly, that is untrue, secondly the distinction you are making does not make sense.

The United States was created by the people, for the people.

You mean like a people's republic?

It was not created by the government for the people. Most people seem to forget this, and follow in the steps of the media.

Last time I checked something cannot be its own creator.

Ask yourself one question, "What government will America stand as in 8 years?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Decade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto#10_point_program_of_Communism

I would argue that America has been practicing a form of communism for over a century. Why would you be outraged now about something as mundane as the criminals doing business as 'the government' mandating that you take their shitty health insurance?

Surely all the wars, the paper money, the arbitrary seizures of land, the restriction of the right to travel, the constancy of torture, theft, rape and murder, the constant grinding poverty of wage taxation, the insanity and vile abuses of public education, the tragedy of wasted lives waiting in traffic for a centrally planned road and an arbitrarily placed streetlight, or the censorship of media and speech in general... surely any of these things is more outrageous to you?

What is one more tax to you, when you're chattel. Everything you earn is theirs.

 

[Comprensión Mutua]

I do not support the bill, though I feel the assertion that those without health insurance are unquestionably lazy and/or incompetent is something of a generalisation. Many people go without healthcare because they may be underpaid, naturally lacking in mental vitality, or perhaps because of an illness, for example. Whilst this is the case, it is unacceptable for the state to requisition the hard-earned capital of its working people. This is stealing, and whether the stolen money is being used righteously or not is irrelevant.

 

[Sindrefyrn]

Although I'm not American, I think it's one step in the proper direction for USA. I think everyone shall be given equal rights and services whatever job they have.
A man that's too sick to work, should be given the same health care as someone who's healthy - that way the sick man could get back to work and that's good for everyone.

 

[Comprensión Mutua]

A man that's too sick to work, should be given the same health care as someone who's healthy - that way the sick man could get back to work and that's good for everyone.

Sure, if he can pay for it.

 

[Sindrefyrn]

Sure, if he can pay for it.

That's the point. A man too sick to work doesn't have an income to pay for the health care.

 

[stankinrange]

I think it's wrong to deny anyone health care, so it's a step in the right direction.

I support this fully, it's wrong to leave the needy in need.

You're Canadian, of course you would think that. I'm all for you having whatever the hell you hippie Canadians want but this is America. By the way, no one is denied healthcare unless they can't afford it. Damn hobo's need to get jobs and stop being god-damn moochers.

Have you no sympathy for anyone of lesser economic value than you? Not all hobos chose to be hobos, alot of them are drug addicts or skitzos, once you get in a rut that deep it's pretty hard to dig your way out of it. Next time you see someone begging for change, throw them a dollar or 2, make someones day.

 

[iToke_Herb]

Have you no sympathy for anyone of lesser economic value than you? Not all hobos chose to be hobos, alot of them are drug addicts or skitzos, once you get in a rut that deep it's pretty hard to dig your way out of it. Next time you see someone begging for change, throw them a dollar or 2, make someones day.

But they chose to do drugs, and there are public mental institutions to house the insane. By throwing a dollar or two, you are encouraging them to go into the gas station that they are probably standing next to and buy another beer profiteering off your naivety.

What people do not understand is, they are not making a difference by taking higher taxes to "redistribute" the wealth in the form of health care, social security, or further bureaucracies. In modern society, people should push for their own self-sufficiency and the right to protect their assets. In the end, this health care bill does NOTHING but establish another bureaucracy under the federal government which will middle-man transactions between your health and you. There is no benefit to this, you are helping those who cannot help themselves, those who cannot help themselves should not be babied, social darwinism. Furthermore, this gives the government MORE power to infringe upon your life and your lifestyle.

While I wish that I could help every Tom, Dick, and Harry in this planet by giving them their prescriptions and finding a doctor for them such utopia isn't plausible. It is immoral to make someone pay 40% or more of their income for another persons sustenance and then be dragged from middle class to lower class because his 60K/yr salary only adds up to 24k.

 

[morttt]

social darwinism.

So you believe that some humans are inherently better than others and they deserve to live while others deserve to die?

I'd be interested to hear your views on the holocaust.

 

[iToke_Herb]

So you believe that some humans are inherently better than others and they deserve to live while others deserve to die?

I'd be interested to hear your views on the holocaust.

Wrong place at wrong time. I'd explain further but this isn't on topic.

 

[stankinrange]

But they chose to do drugs, and there are public mental institutions to house the insane. By throwing a dollar or two, you are encouraging them to go into the gas station that they are probably standing next to and buy another beer profiteering off your naivety.

Not all people chose to become addicts, it's not something you choose to do, it's something that just tends to happen. If you throw them 2 dollars then yeah, it's probably what they are going to do if not eat on it, it's the only comfort that person has, they obviously have no family that cares for them or friends besides other homeless people.. I don't want to support ones addiction to anything, but put yourself in a pair of their shoes, what would you have to live for anyhow?

What people do not understand is, they are not making a difference by taking higher taxes to "redistribute" the wealth in the form of health care, social security, or further bureaucracies. In modern society, people should push for their own self-sufficiency and the right to protect their assets. In the end, this health care bill does NOTHING but establish another bureaucracy under the federal government which will middle-man transactions between your health and you. There is no benefit to this, you are helping those who cannot help themselves, those who cannot help themselves should not be babied, social darwinism. Furthermore, this gives the government MORE power to infringe upon your life and your lifestyle.

I do believe people should fend for theirselves better than they do nowadays, but look at the American lifestyle. I think we should all lend a helping hand to those in need to though, and raising taxes on the wealthy is more logical for redistrubiting currency i believe, if you think otherwise then do you honestly believe we need to be paying billions of dollars to watch sunday night footbal to have the highest salleried player take a hit and be out for 2 weeks? I think not. . Everyone should be offered free healthcare to an extent.. i dunno.. im probably just rambling..

 

[iToke_Herb]

Not all people chose to become addicts, it's not something you choose to do, it's something that just tends to happen. If you throw them 2 dollars then yeah, it's probably what they are going to do if not eat on it, it's the only comfort that person has, they obviously have no family that cares for them or friends besides other homeless people.. I don't want to support ones addiction to anything, but put yourself in a pair of their shoes, what would you have to live for anyhow?

I do believe people should fend for theirselves better than they do nowadays, but look at the American lifestyle. I think we should all lend a helping hand to those in need to though, and raising taxes on the wealthy is more logical for redistrubiting currency i believe, if you think otherwise then do you honestly believe we need to be paying billions of dollars to watch sunday night footbal to have the highest salleried player take a hit and be out for 2 weeks? I think not. . Everyone should be offered free healthcare to an extent.. i dunno.. im probably just rambling..

Ya that heroin needle just flew into his pulmonary vein. If you are trying to make a point saying people turned to drugs during a downfall in their lives, please don't because they deserve an awful life if they could not make a more rational and productive decision to solve their problems. I don't even condone the use of marijuana during period of physical or emotional depression because it won't solve the problem. If I was in his position, I understand that I would have a crap life of being smelly, poor, and homeless. But there are programs such as the Job Corp (a social program I agree with) that re-educates individuals, offers them housing, and gives them mundane jobs to create a living off of. So yes, people are homeless by their own lethargy and stupidity.

First, you are not rambling, you are merely restating the opinion that basically every liberal makes and just like most liberals not giving a rational reason why besides "they're poor." Taxing the rich does not cure poverty and does not help others. The backbone of capitalism and corporatism is incentive, everyone needs a "perk" to work hard. If you take away high salaries you are killing industry and taking away incentives for progress and education along with the incentive to work hard.

The rich are rich because they worked hard and succeeded, they should not be punished by crippling fees and taxes. If you give a tax break to the rich and poor, you are destroying that dividing line of preferential treatment that has plagued America and causing social classes to spite eachother. Everyone wants an extra buck in their pocket, there are an infinite number of things to do with it.

Instead of offering free healthcare at the cost of the American public, why not offer tax breaks to EVERYONE therefore causing companies to offer greater incentive for productivity along with increasing jobs? The government does not run the economy and industries (health care included), the people do. So the answer is to give back to the people so that they can improve life on their own as they see fit.