Abortion

[The Riddler_]

There isn't a link for it, it's something I've picked up on in biology classes through the years.

The biological ability to feel pain requires a nervous system of some sort, and an area of the brain to process the signals. For an individual to actually "feel" the pain, rather than a machine-like reaction to stimulus, some sort of consciousness is required. An ant, which is not conscious, will react to a flame, but there is no personality within it capable of feeling this. Its reaction is purely mechanical. Humans have a highly developed consciousness, thus we are very capable of feeling pain. A fetus, given its brain development, has little to no capability for feeling pain - on par with small mammals such as mice.

What about a person in a comma?

 

[Shredderbeam]

What about a person in a comma?

Some people in comas have reported being fully mentally functional - except, of course, for being unable to move:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-coma-but-i-could-hear-every-word-415327.html

 

[The Riddler_]

Some people in comas have reported being fully mentally functional - except, of course, for being unable to move:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-coma-but-i-could-hear-every-word-415327.html

Nah, I knew what I was talking about, I just wanted to find out if you still held by your first thought.

Because the person in a comma could still feel pain, just not be responsive for it, if the said person is still alive.

 

[hashslinger]

Now you are saying that a fetus Isnt considered human because it hasent been fully developed?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Now you are saying that a fetus Isnt considered human because it hasent been fully developed?

I did not say that, at all. A fetus is biologically human, but is not yet fully developed enough to properly feel pain.

 

[p0oned y0u1]

Shredder believes that an immoral act is one that afflicts unnecessary pain on another being. So it is not "immoral" by his definition if it doesn't fell pain. That is what I have come to the conclusion from talking to you/him.

It comes down to what your morals are and how you define moral and immoral acts.

 

[The Riddler_]

Shredder believes that an immoral act is one that afflicts unnecessary pain on another being. So it is not "immoral" by his definition if it doesn't fell pain. That is what I have come to the conclusion from talking to you/him.

It comes down to what your morals are and how you define moral and immoral acts.

Yes I've longed concluded that.

Now, i'm after when in the baby's life does the baby receive it's human rights, and classify it as murder. Is it during development or after birth.

 

[hashslinger]

Watch.

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Watch.

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Typical Youtube propaganda.

Oh and, in case you weren't aware, Obama supports abortion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_abortion_ban

 

[TJ]

Typical Youtube propaganda.

Oh and, in case you weren't aware, Obama supports abortion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_abortion_ban

Good, we can finally have somewhat of a american in there then.

 

[iown1234]

Woman's choice, imo if all that people that had an abortion, didnt have them, the world may be overpopulated.

 

[The Riddler_]

Woman's choice, imo if all that people that had an abortion, didnt have them, the world may be overpopulated.

That's the excuse for everything.

"If we didn't have STD's the world would be overpopulated"
"If 9/11 didn't happen, the world would be overpopulated"

Plus, we're trying to figure out when the baby is granted it's own rights, and once he/she has their rights and the mother tries to abort him/her, it is murder.

 

[hashslinger]

Typical Youtube propaganda.

Oh and, in case you weren't aware, Obama supports abortion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_abortion_ban

Yes I know this... that was the point of the video. If obama had been aborted, he would not be president. The video says "Life, Imagine the potential" He was potential life. He was born. He is the first african american president.

Good, we can finally have somewhat of a american in there then.

?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Watch.

[youtube]<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V2CaBR3z85c&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V2CaBR3z85c&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>[/youtube]

What about the other side, the negative potential? What of the future Hitlers, or Stalins?

Of course, my point is that future potential does not really matter, as the future has not happened yet.

 

[hashslinger]

What about the other side, the negative potential? What of the future Hitlers, or Stalins?

Of course, my point is that future potential does not really matter, as the future has not happened yet.

Many people in the future have the potential to kill you. Does that make it right?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Many people in the future have the potential to kill you. Does that make it right?

That's not what I mean. My point is that the future potential of a being does not matter when considering what rights it has right now.

 

[K-3-V-1-N]

So what? it is called adoption. You had unsafe sex... you paid the consequences.

Then what would happen if a girl was raped and became pregnant? Is it still alright to kill the fetus? If so, why? If not, how could you force a girl to keep it? It's a unwanted thing growing in her body. Shouldn't she have the right to dispose of it?


I'm just torn between the morality of it. It is technically a tumor while inside the woman, but I can't see how killing a potential human is moral.

Have any of you watched the episode of House where the woman has to choose between her life and her babies life? She feverishly chooses her babies life, and throughout the episode, House tries to persuade her that the fetus is simply a tumor. The mother didn't listen, and of course House found a way to save them both. There is a scene at the end where House is at the babies birth, and the babies hand touches him. House is visibly shocked at the site of the tumor.

That kind of imagery has a powerful effect on me.

 

[hashslinger]

That's not what I mean. My point is that the future potential of a being does not matter when considering what rights it has right now.

Here is what I think. Again..

1. A woman had unsafe sex.

2. She should have to deal with the consciquences.

3. 9 months holding time is nothing. It may be a small hinderence to everyday life... but a mother can deal with it.

4. A woman who aborts a baby is selfish and only cares about herself and could care less about anyone elses life.

5. Once a woman has a baby she becomes attached to it. If she still wants to be rid of it, there is always adoption.

6. Rape is less that .01% of abortions and should not be even taken into consederation when deciding if aborting is right or wrong.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Here is what I think. Again..

1. A woman had unsafe sex.

Not always.

2. She should have to deal with the consciquences.

I say she shouldn't. The fetus is equivalent to a rat. If she wants to kill a fetus (rat) to convenience herself, so be it.

3. 9 months holding time is nothing. It may be a small hinderence to everyday life... but a mother can deal with it.

It's nine months of pain, with an agonizing labor at the end.

4. A woman who aborts a baby is selfish and only cares about herself and could care less about anyone elses life.

I don't think you fully understand their perspective.

You have not answered my question:

Why does future potential matter?

 

[hashslinger]

Life has to start somewhere. Life does not start when a baby is born. Life starts from the point of conception.

All you are doing is growing. Just because you were starting your life as a fetus does not meen that you are not human and that you are not living. If something is growing it is living.

Just because a baby passes 8 inches out of a women does not make it any more human and being inside a woman for 9 months does not make it any less human.

Is a four year old girl any less human because her reproductive system isnt fully developed? Is a midget any less human because he is smaller? Does the fact that a fetus has to depend on a mothers body change the fact that it is human?

The answer is no.