Abortion

[Shredderbeam]

OK first I dont get my data from christian sites. I got it from the 2nd link in google. the first and the second just said 1%. Do you think this because of the information I add?

If I look at evey link in google I can also find statistics I want.

Oh, ok, I guess I read it wrong.

Where is your proof that a pre-born baby cant feel pain?

Well, as I've said before, the ability to feel pain requires a developed nervous system, an area of the brain to process pain, and a conscious mind to experience it. Fetuses do not have all three for the majority of the gestation period.

 

[Shinobix]

its still a LIVING thing
fuck abortion

 

[Shredderbeam]

its still a LIVING thing
fuck abortion

Amoebas are also living.

 

[hashslinger]

Amoebas are also living.

uhhh... ok?

I have almost given up on arguing on this... you are very firm on your ideas. I gess you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

 

[Shredderbeam]

uhhh... ok?

I have almost given up on arguing on this... you are very firm on your ideas. I gess you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

Let me try and explain this.

Your position has two main premises and a conclusion, as follows:

First premise: It is wrong to kill an innocent human being.
Second premise: A human fetus is an innocent human being.
Conclusion: Therefore it is wrong to kill a human fetus.

Assuming that we both accept the first premise, the debate hinges on the second premise. When we say that a fetus is a "human being", what do we mean? There are two main definitions, which you can add to if you wish:

- A member of "homo sapiens".
- A person (a self-conscious entity).

If you believe that a fetus is a person, well then you are clearly mistaken, for the fetus is not rational or self-conscious in any way.

If you use "human being" to mean a member of "homo sapiens", then I must point out that the species an individual belongs to is not relevant when discussing rights. Rights are judged based on the characteristics an individual has, not what grouping they belong to.

You might respond to this with the potential argument, which is as follows:

First premise: It is wrong to kill a potential human being.
Second premise: A fetus is a potential human being.
Conclusion: Therefore it is wrong to kill a fetus.

The second premise is no doubt correct, with respect to both definitions of "human". As to the first, why would a potential person have the rights of an actual person? Why would it be wrong to destroy them?

 

[hashslinger]

Lets take out the factor of anything has has to do with a the after effects of a baby being born or the 9 month carrying peroid. Lets also take out the idea that a woman has a right to her own body.

The first premise you gave me was,

First premise: It is wrong to kill an innocent human being.
Second premise: A human fetus is an innocent human being.
Conclusion: Therefore it is wrong to kill a human fetus.

The fetus is a growing human. Not a growing human being.

"dictionary.com"
Being /ˈbiɪŋ/ [bee-ing]
–noun
conscious, mortal existence; life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

It may not have consciousness but it is a growing human.

Just because it dosent look like a human, does that make it not a human?

Lets look at a baby kangaroo.

sorry pic is so large.

this looks nothing like a full grown kangaroo, but it still is one.

 

[Irrational]

this looks nothing like a full grown kangaroo, but it still is one.

Looks like a kangaroo to me.

And my position is this:

Morally, it's wrong.
Legally, it should be allowed.

 

[Louis]

If a woman doesn't want something in her then she has every right to get rid of it.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Lets take out the factor of anything has has to do with a the after effects of a baby being born or the 9 month carrying peroid. Lets also take out the idea that a woman has a right to her own body.

The first premise you gave me was,

First premise: It is wrong to kill an innocent human being.
Second premise: A human fetus is an innocent human being.
Conclusion: Therefore it is wrong to kill a human fetus.

The fetus is a growing human. Not a growing human being.

"dictionary.com"
Being /ˈbiɪŋ/ [bee-ing]
–noun
conscious, mortal existence; life.

So the definition of "human" you are using is the biological one? To quote myself:

If you use "human being" to mean a member of "homo sapiens", then I must point out that the species an individual belongs to is not relevant when discussing rights. Rights are judged based on the characteristics an individual has, not what grouping they belong to.

By using the biological meaning of the word "human" you are still giving a fetus rights because it belongs to a particular species, and for no other reason. That is an arbitrary distinction.

Just because it dosent look like a human, does that make it not a human?

I didn't say that at all. >_>

 

[Frenzy]

If the the woman is pregnet only 1-2 weeks, and gets rid of the baby, I think its okay. Farther than that I dont think she should.

 

[Seven51]

If the person became a preggo accidentally than I think it is okay. Plus its their body, they can do what they wish.

 

[Aeroplane]

Absolutely. The carrier of the fetus has the right to do what they want with it.

 

[Swan]

If the the woman is pregnet only 1-2 weeks, and gets rid of the baby, I think its okay. Farther than that I dont think she should.

Why not?

 

[hashslinger]

Why not?

^^ not responding to you anymore. Cant argue with someone who thinks killing a baby after its been born is ok...

I have come to a concusion.

Because aithiests see the world from an evolutionary standpoint, You think that all beings came from one creature. If you take away the fact that we are a society that has rules, we are all animals from one being. This makes us all equal.

If I was to believe that (which I dont) I would say that killing anything would be just as bad. Killing an ant would be considered murder.

I, however, am religious. I beleve that every human has a soul and that there is an afterlife. This makes all the difference in the world.

 

[DropKick Murphys]

Because aithiests see the world from an evolutionary standpoint, You think that all beings came from one creature. If you take away the fact that we are a society that has rules, we are all animals from one being. This makes us all equal.

No, humans are intelligent, rational creatures.

If I was to believe that (which I dont) I would say that killing anything would be just as bad. Killing an ant would be considered murder.

I think Swan believes that ants don't have any rights because they are irrational.

I, however, am religious. I beleve that every human has a soul and that there is an afterlife. This makes all the difference in the world.

What do you believe a soul is? (And I mean that as a serious question, I'm curious)
Is it like our mind or consciousness?

 

[hashslinger]

No, humans are intelligent, rational creatures.

Yes they are. But according to evolution we are all just animals.

I think Swan believes that ants don't have any rights because they are irrational.

A fettus will be rational. If a man goes unconsicous and he is bleeding substantually, Are you going to let him die from blood loss? He currently in an "irrational" state and he cant make decisions for himself. No one in their right mind would let him die just because he cant make his own decisions.

What do you believe a soul is? (And I mean that as a serious question, I'm curious)
Is it like our mind or consciousness?

I believe our soul is what makes us... us. Science cant tap into our ability to be a rational being that is able to problem solve.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Yes they are. But according to evolution we are all just animals.

And according to neuroscience our emotions are based on a complex set of chemicals. It doesn't diminish them, does it?

A fettus will be rational. If a man goes unconsicous and he is bleeding substantually, Are you going to let him die from blood loss? He currently in an "irrational" state and he cant make decisions for himself. No one in their right mind would let him die just because he cant make his own decisions.

An unconscious man is capable of feeling pain and conscious thought. At this moment, he is not able to, but he possesses the capability. One only has to wake him up for him to regain conscious thought. A fetus does not possess these characteristics - it has never been rational, it has never been self-aware, there is no conscious mind there.

You have not explained why it is wrong to kill a potential being.

I believe our soul is what makes us... us. Science cant tap into our ability to be a rational being that is able to problem solve.

What? Science explains our ability to be rational extremely well. >_>

 

[hashslinger]

What? Science explains our ability to be rational extremely well. >_>

I got 2 hours of sleep last night so i am not thinking clearly atm so I will give a better answer later.

It may be able to explain it but it is impossible to replicate it.

 

[rsl3gendz]

yes i think it should be banned unless if the woman got raped. babies are people to and dont deserve to be killed

 

[Swan]

^^ not responding to you anymore. Cant argue with someone who thinks killing a baby after its been born is ok...

I see that as a cop-out; You don't want to debate with me because my thoughts directly contradict your thoughts. The entire point of a debate is to change someone's mind.

I have come to a concusion.

Concussion eh? xD

Because aithiests see the world from an evolutionary standpoint, You think that all beings came from one creature. If you take away the fact that we are a society that has rules, we are all animals from one being. This makes us all equal.

What has atheism and evolutionary theory got to do with abortion?

If I was to believe that (which I dont) I would say that killing anything would be just as bad. Killing an ant would be considered murder.

Ants are irrational. Human beings ARE rational.

I, however, am religious. I beleve that every human has a soul and that there is an afterlife. This makes all the difference in the world.

Are you able to back up your belief that every human being has a soul, and that there is an afterlife? If not, you are being irrational yourself.

yes i think it should be banned unless if the woman got raped. babies are people to and dont deserve to be killed

So it's okay to kill a "potential lifeform" under one circumstance, but not under another? Make up your mind: You either support abortion, or you don't.