Abortion

[Shredderbeam]

Yet u are removing the child's potential, hence still applies.

By that logic, birth control should be illegal. The potential for a child exists, but apparently, the adults are stopping it.

Shredder, hasn't this been debated before? Glad you finally stickied it

It has, and I'm glad too.

 

[TJ]

shredder is always to the rescue..

anyways,

Yeah if what eXact is saying is true then birth control would be illgeal, condoms would also be. Because you are destroying the babys chances.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

.

It doesn't start kicking for a while (it has to develop legs first), and kicking does not necessarily entail a conscious mind.


You have no idea of the cruelty a human is capable of. There is a limit to goodness, whereas there is no limit as to evil. Before you make a quick judgment like that, take it from people who have known such horrors: The human potential for evil is far greater than that for good.

Anyway, that is completely irrelevant. The future is in the future. A potential life is not a life yet. If you almost donate money to a charity, and don't, you are not stealing.


Forcing a woman to bear a child to term violates her right of privacy. That is the only point I have made on this thread. I have not made any references to any other acts that deprive privacy.

How about rolling over, doesn't that mean that the pontential life is uncomfortable so it is trying to recomfort itself. That would give it a thought process, but not a memory. People say that we can't remember the first year of our life, or being in the womb, but because you are not able to doesn't mean that you were not their, or that you had a thought process when doing so. It's that fact that you don't have a conscious memory process.


Good can match evil. Good must be able to match evil. Yes there is a limit to goodness. But there is a limit to evil, which would end in torture or killing this could be of a single person, or millions.



Potential life is nothing but life with no memory. If I almost fuck a chick, but use protection or something or I don't do it, She doesnt get pregnant ect. that is potential life. Considering something unborn, because it is not able to remember or communicate, doesnt give up the fact that it isn't living.


Forcing a life to die, is nothing more then the cold act of murder, just like killing someone in a coma, accept that the child that is killed, has a greater fact of being conscious then someone in a coma. If you were to kill someone in a coma, it could simply be justified in the same way. Someone is incapable of knowing whats going on, or control of it, so they must not be alive, but potential life. Their life could come back or they could not.

 

[Shredderbeam]

How about rolling over, doesn't that mean that the pontential life is uncomfortable so it is trying to recomfort itself. That would give it a thought process, but not a memory. People say that we can't remember the first year of our life, or being in the womb, but because you are not able to doesn't mean that you were not their, or that you had a thought process when doing so. It's that fact that you don't have a conscious memory process.

Rolling over is not necessarily a conscious act. It can be a reflex.

Good can match evil. Good must be able to match evil. Yes there is a limit to goodness. But there is a limit to evil, which would end in torture or killing this could be of a single person, or millions.

Good does not necessarily match evil.

Since you seem persistent in following this line of logic, I suggest that you check out a few of these links: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abortion+crime+rate&btnG=Google+Search

Potential life is nothing but life with no memory.

No, a potential human life is something that could become a human life, but hasn't yet.

Forcing a life to die, is nothing more then the cold act of murder, just like killing someone in a coma, accept that the child that is killed, has a greater fact of being conscious then someone in a coma. If you were to kill someone in a coma, it could simply be justified in the same way. Someone is incapable of knowing whats going on, or control of it, so they must not be alive, but potential life. Their life could come back or they could not.

The thing is, the person in a coma is already a life, albeit an unconscious one. A blob of cells is not a human life. It's a potential human life.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Rolling over is not necessarily a conscious act. It can be a reflex.



Good does not necessarily match evil.

Since you seem persistent in following this line of logic, I suggest that you check out a few of these links: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abortion+crime+rate&btnG=Google+Search



No, a potential human life is something that could become a human life, but hasn't yet.



The thing is, the person in a coma is already a life, albeit an unconscious one. A blob of cells is not a human life. It's a potential human life.

Or it could be a conscious act.


"the murder rate for 1993's crop of 14- to 17-year-olds (who were born in the high-abortion years of 1975 to 1979) was a horrifying 3.6 times that of the kids who were 14 to 17 years old in 1984 (who were born in the pre-legalization years of 1966 to 1970)." More mruders happened during the time when abortion was legalized, with gih abortion rates. Good think of the possibilities of good.

Simple worker, complex thinker, scientiests ect...

Under the context of evil, all points to death.

Like I said before, instead of killing millions of humans, send them all to someplace like mexico, and let the hop the boreder, and do our labor for cheap



Potential life is still alive is it not? it just has dependencys.


A human in a coma displays less tendencies of life, then a potential life by your standard

 

[Shredderbeam]

Or it could be a conscious act.

Unlikely. I doubt that their brains are developed enough to do that consciously.

"the murder rate for 1993's crop of 14- to 17-year-olds (who were born in the high-abortion years of 1975 to 1979) was a horrifying 3.6 times that of the kids who were 14 to 17 years old in 1984 (who were born in the pre-legalization years of 1966 to 1970)." More mruders happened during the time when abortion was legalized, with gih abortion rates. Good think of the possibilities of good.

Ah, bad point. Never mind.

Like I said before, instead of killing millions of humans, send them all to someplace like mexico, and let the hop the boreder, and do our labor for cheap

The thing is, that violates a woman's right to privacy.

Potential life is still alive is it not? it just has dependencys.

It's technically alive, but not a human yet.

A human in a coma displays less tendencies of life, then a potential life by your standard

Yet the fact remains that they are in a deep sleep from which they cannot awake.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Unlikely. I doubt that their brains are developed enough to do that consciously.



Ah, bad point. Never mind.



The thing is, that violates a woman's right to privacy.



It's technically alive, but not a human yet.



Yet the fact remains that they are in a deep sleep from which they cannot awake.

subcouncoius acts still prove that there is a conscoius which it could be from, the fact of being uncomfortable.

all right

Let me go find someplace that states the right of privacy, so I can fully understand what it is about.

It is alive, so your are taking a life, isnt that the act of murder? destroying a life

in this deep sleep they still show less atributes of life, then a pontential life

 

[Shredderbeam]

subcouncoius acts still prove that there is a conscoius which it could be from, the fact of being uncomfortable.

I'm not saying it's subconscious. I'm saying it's a purely mechanical action.

It is alive, so your are taking a life, isnt that the act of murder? destroying a life

If you define murder as ending a life, then yes, abortion is murder, just as stepping on an insect, washing your hands with soap, and taking antibiotics are murder.

in this deep sleep they still show less atributes of life, then a pontential life

They show actually around the same, with the added bonus that many people, coming out of a coma, claim to remember people talking to them.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

I'm not saying it's subconscious. I'm saying it's a purely mechanical action.



If you define murder as ending a life, then yes, abortion is murder, just as stepping on an insect, washing your hands with soap, and taking antibiotics are murder.



They show actually around the same, with the added bonus that many people, coming out of a coma, claim to remember people talking to them.

What would the point be of a baby mechanically turning? it could easily kill itself if it did.

Murder to a form of a human.


Coma:
The person lays in a vegetable state.

Potnetial life:
It, moves around. Grows trimensly in size. Grows neccessary organs for life.
Again it moves around. This is important. as a person in a coma, does not have any action.

 

[Shredderbeam]

What would the point be of a baby mechanically turning? it could easily kill itself if it did.

Reflexes exist, you know.

Murder to a form of a human.

I don't consider it a human.

Potnetial life:
It, moves around. Grows trimensly in size. Grows neccessary organs for life.
Again it moves around. This is important. as a person in a coma, does not have any action.

No, a fetus is a potential human life. A potential life is just something that has the potential to turn in to life.

 

[excell]

i consider a baby to have a choice if it wants to die or not it had 1 life u really wanna stuff up its 1 and only chance to live and then die bcoz of a abortion thats fucked up it's a human life potential or not its still human


it has a heart its a "human being" meaning it should be illegal to have an abortion who the hell cares about the womens decision it's still known as an act of murder and wrong

"you must know everything and nothing to be wise"

 

[Shredderbeam]

i consider a baby to have a choice if it wants to die or not it had 1 life u really wanna stuff up its 1 and only chance to live and then die bcoz of a abortion thats fucked up it's a human life potential or not its still human

Yes, a baby should have the right to live. However, it isn't a baby.

So, where the potential for human life exists, it must be protected? Is birth control then fundamentally wrong?

it has a heart its a "human being" meaning it should be illegal to have an abortion who the hell cares about the womens decision it's still known as an act of murder and wrong

Having a heart doesn't make you a complete human being.

It's not so much about the woman's choice, but her right to privacy. Who is the government to come in and tell her what to do with her body?

 

[bubbagump]

This is stricly my opinion.

If you get a girl knocked-up, and she wants to have the child, but you suggest a abortion, and she doesn't get it...then I wouldn't raise the kid...I mean, how hard is it to get a fucking needle shot. I can understand if you're 4 months pregnant and a acutaly baby is growing. But for something that isn't necessarily living, it shouldn't matter.

All in all. You wanna ruin my life, gtfo or get a abortion...in lame mans terms. =p

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Reflexes exist, you know.

Yes I do, but is it a reflex for you to roll over ever time you are uncomfrtrable, or do you do it upon choice?

I don't consider it a human.

You don't even consider it a form of human life?

No, a fetus is a potential human life. A potential life is just something that has the potential to turn in to life.

An ape has potential life, to turn into a human from an evoltuionist view, so should killing apes be legalized? they are only potential life.



Potential life still has life in it? having the ability to form a human life, sounds as if the potential life, has a choice. Even if it is nothing more then potential, it should still have a choice shouldn't it?


It's not that it can become a human life, its the fact that it is becoming a human life, and the only way to stop it, is killing it. Does this mean that at the age, that you would consider the potential life, has become a life, even if it has been aborted, would it then be considered a murder, as it would have became a life at that point.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Yes I do, but is it a reflex for you to roll over ever time you are uncomfrtrable, or do you do it upon choice?

It could be either one. However, I doubt that their brains are developed enough for choice.

You don't even consider it a form of human life?

It's a form of human life, sure. I just don't think that it has any rights.

An ape has potential life, to turn into a human from an evoltuionist view, so should killing apes be legalized? they are only potential life.

False logic. We're talking about in terms of an organism's lifespan, not oever millions of years.

Potential life still has life in it? having the ability to form a human life, sounds as if the potential life, has a choice. Even if it is nothing more then potential, it should still have a choice shouldn't it?

It doesn't have a choice. It gains the ability to make choices once its brain is developed.

It's not that it can become a human life, its the fact that it is becoming a human life, and the only way to stop it, is killing it. Does this mean that at the age, that you would consider the potential life, has become a life, even if it has been aborted, would it then be considered a murder, as it would have became a life at that point.

No, I wouldn't consider it full-fledged murder until it was out of the womb through natural birth. There is no invisible line of "human" versus "nonhuman". It's a slowly changing gradient.

 

[jebckr]

I don't care if you think it is moral or not. It should NOT be the governments place to say a women MUST have a child. As stated, it is a private matter not to be disrupted by the government.

 

[bubbagump]

I don't care if you think it is moral or not. It should NOT be the governments place to say a women MUST have a child. As stated, it is a private matter not to be disrupted by the government.

The goverment does not want deaths, it wants SOLDIERS.