Abortion

[Shredderbeam]

But the person who aborts the baby should be punished by having their leg cut off. That would stop all those slutty teenagers breeding more slutty teenagers and spreading STDs around.

What the hell? Ever hear of "cruel and unusual punishment"? You may be surprised to hear this, but people are actually free to have as much sex as they want (within certain reasonable limits), and to have as many children as they want. You may want to rethink your brutal policies.

 

[jaamal]

But the person who aborts the baby should be punished by having their leg cut off. That would stop all those slutty teenagers breeding more slutty teenagers and spreading STDs around.

LMAO, it just might work...

LMAO, I didn't know you could breed slutty teens. Is there some type of procedure to follow? Or do I just get a Sluty teen girl and then make her have sex wth a pornstar then I will get a Slutty Teen for sure?

 

[cave_ranger]

True, but is there a consciousness to feel the pain, or is it mechanical?

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, pain is pain. This may be a different topic, but what about people who have lost mental functions, such as people in comas? They don't truly have a consciousness (at least we don't think so), but it's considered wrong by some of the same people who support abortions.

What rights? And why do they have questionable integrity?

By questionable, I mean debated. If something is truly wrong, it is almost always banned under a democracy. But something under such heated debate is, by definition, questionable... it is being questioned in this very thread.

And by rights, i mean the right for people to be as "as irresponsible as they please."

It probably would be, but people are still free to be as irresponsible as they please.

In short, I just think we have to sacrifice the 'right' to be irresponsible in order to have a civilized society.

 

[crashcourse]

I believe abortion should only been used in the cases of Rape; wheras if its just someone who was dumb enough to get pregnant then its their own fault, and an unborn child shouldn't have to suffer for their mistake.

BTW that t-shirt you mentioned in the first post makes a VERY good point.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, pain is pain. This may be a different topic, but what about people who have lost mental functions, such as people in comas? They don't truly have a consciousness (at least we don't think so), but it's considered wrong by some of the same people who support abortions.

Pain is pain? I hope you're a vegetarian/vegan, then, because apparently, any sort of pain is abhorrent.

If there is a person who truly is incapable of having a consciousness, then killing them is not immoral. They're basically a meat suit, being kept alive on machinery. What others think of this issue is immaterial to me.

By questionable, I mean debated. If something is truly wrong, it is almost always banned under a democracy. But something under such heated debate is, by definition, questionable... it is being questioned in this very thread.

There are people who question everything. There are even people who doubt that the Earth is round! Does that mean that the debate is neutral and balanced, and no clear winner has been found? No, it means that, despite being clearly wrong, one side struggles on.

In short, I just think we have to sacrifice the 'right' to be irresponsible in order to have a civilized society.

We have the right to be irresponsible, but look! Society is reasonably civilized! Anyway, with this huge violation of personal freedom that you support, who would provide oversight? If a teenager watches TV instead of finishing his homework, is he summoned before a council? How about the man who blows off the meeting with his boss? Does the boss have a right to have him arrested on a count of irresponsibility?

 

[imnotcrazy357]

I believe abortion should only been used in the cases of Rape; wheras if its just someone who was dumb enough to get pregnant then its their own fault, and an unborn child shouldn't have to suffer for their mistake.

Agreed, but what is going to happen to the child after this is over? adoption agenceys, have many children to deal with already, and seeing as a 14 or 15 year old girl, or couple would be completely unable to support a child, the child will be suffering along with the young girl who had the child, giving the child an unfair advantage in this world, and probably feeling to make the same mistakes as his/her parents, resulting in more cases ect.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Agreed, but what is going to happen to the child after this is over? adoption agenceys, have many children to deal with already, and seeing as a 14 or 15 year old girl, or couple would be completely unable to support a child, the child will be suffering along with the young girl who had the child, giving the child an unfair advantage in this world, and probably feeling to make the same mistakes as his/her parents, resulting in more cases ect.

How do you get around the right of privacy when you try to prevent a woman from having an abortion?

 

[imnotcrazy357]

How do you get around the right of privacy when you try to prevent a woman from having an abortion?

How do you get around the guilt of murdering a child, or the act of killing a child.

Which do you think is more important The right of privacy, or the act of murder?

 

[Shredderbeam]

How do you get around the guilt of murdering a child, or the act of killing a child.

Which do you think is more important The right of privacy, or the act of murder?

Murder applies only to human beings. I do not consider an unborn child a human being.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Murder applies only to human beings. I do not consider an unborn child a human being.

When does a child become a human being? when it is able to think and act on its own? when it begins to move or think upon its own? When it is able to devolup words?



"If you kill a butterfly in the past, It can drastically alter the future"

If believing this quote, what do you think happens when you kill millions on unborn children?

 

[Shredderbeam]

When does a child become a human being? when it is able to think and act on its own? when it begins to move or think upon its own? When it is able to devolup words?

Personally, I think it becomes a child somewhere around the third or fourth month, when it has reached a large enough size, and progressed far enough in its development to differentiate itself from a blob of cells.

It can think and act on its own probably a bit after five months.

It can develop words (or try to) around nine months after its born.

"If you kill a butterfly in the past, It can drastically alter the future"

If believing this quote, what do you think happens when you kill millions on unborn children?

That logic doesn't fly. You could drastically alter the future by not killing millions of unborn children. You could alter it by breathing. You could alter it by the simple fact of your existence.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Personally, I think it becomes a child somewhere around the third or fourth month, when it has reached a large enough size, and progressed far enough in its development to differentiate itself from a blob of cells.

It can think and act on its own probably a bit after five months.

It can develop words (or try to) around nine months after its born.



That logic doesn't fly. You could drastically alter the future by not killing millions of unborn children. You could alter it by breathing. You could alter it by the simple fact of your existence.

So when a baby is born or there after, within the first two months, I should be able to simply cut my infants head off, and throw it away in the trash without and charges of murder pressed against me, because it was unable to think or act upon its own?

Is not an unborn child more important then a fully grown dog? if its illegal for me to go shoot my dog, then it should be illegal to kill unborn babies.




by killing millions of baby we could be killing of the could of been new world leaders, the new world geniuses ect. instead of killing these babies, and since they are unwanted, why not let thme be born, then be immediatly send into slave encampments, or used for study. This would give us an use for these humans, instead of killing for unwated purpose.

 

[Shredderbeam]

So when a baby is born or there after, within the first two months, I should be able to simply cut my infants head off, and throw it away in the trash without and charges of murder pressed against me, because it was unable to think or act upon its own?

I never said that. I said that I would consider it a life after three or four months.

Is not an unborn child more important then a fully grown dog? if its illegal for me to go shoot my dog, then it should be illegal to kill unborn babies.

It's not an unborn child per sec, it's more of a potential life. I do not consider a potential life important.

by killing millions of baby we could be killing of the could of been new world leaders, the new world geniuses ect.

Or they could have been the new Hitler's, Stalin's, and Bin Laden's. That logic does not fly. It could have been anything, but if you kill it, it won't be anything.

instead of killing these babies, and since they are unwanted, why not let thme be born, then be immediatly send into slave encampments, or used for study. This would give us an use for these humans, instead of killing for unwated purpose.

It violates the right of privacy.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

I never said that. I said that I would consider it a life after three or four months.



It's not an unborn child per sec, it's more of a potential life. I do not consider a potential life important.



Or they could have been the new Hitler's, Stalin's, and Bin Laden's. That logic does not fly. It could have been anything, but if you kill it, it won't be anything.



It violates the right of privacy.

But it gives the right to without punishment as it is an unkowing creature.




Potential life, that has already started forming itself into the shape of a human, and must have thought process, or it would not be kicking within the womb.



If you kill it you dispose of the good and the bad. If you think about statics, how many are good, how many are bad? I'm pritty sure good out weighs the bad. So therefore we are creating more good to handle the bad.


almost everything to you violates the right of privacy.

But doesn't killing a child in its womb violate its right to privacy? doesn't it have a choice if it wants to die or not? no.



Smile, your mother didn't kill the potential you =]

 

[Shredderbeam]

But it gives the right to without punishment as it is an unkowing creature.

It's not a creature. It's a potential life.

Potential life, that has already started forming itself into the shape of a human, and must have thought process, or it would not be kicking within the womb.

It doesn't start kicking for a while (it has to develop legs first), and kicking does not necessarily entail a conscious mind.

If you kill it you dispose of the good and the bad. If you think about statics, how many are good, how many are bad? I'm pritty sure good out weighs the bad. So therefore we are creating more good to handle the bad.

You have no idea of the cruelty a human is capable of. There is a limit to goodness, whereas there is no limit as to evil. Before you make a quick judgment like that, take it from people who have known such horrors: The human potential for evil is far greater than that for good.

Anyway, that is completely irrelevant. The future is in the future. A potential life is not a life yet. If you almost donate money to a charity, and don't, you are not stealing.

almost everything to you violates the right of privacy.

Forcing a woman to bear a child to term violates her right of privacy. That is the only point I have made on this thread. I have not made any references to any other acts that deprive privacy.

But doesn't killing a child in its womb violate its right to privacy? doesn't it have a choice if it wants to die or not? no.

It's not a child. It's a potential life.

Smile, your mother didn't kill the potential you =]

If she had, I'd never have known. I wouldn't be grieving.

 

[excell]

wow some intelligent conversations here lol but seriously a baby could be a genius or discover the cure to aids someday also how could you kill a baby its sad reallynot knowing what the babys capable of...

 

[Shredderbeam]

wow some intelligent conversations here lol but seriously a baby could be a genius or discover the cure to aids someday also how could you kill a baby its sad reallynot knowing what the babys capable of...

Or it could be the person who ends human civilization. That logic does not apply, since the future hasn't happened yet. It's still wide open.

 

[Typhoon]

I know someone who got pregnant, the boyfriend wanted an abortion she didnt. They both decieded to keep it. 4 months down the road. He gets her to have an abortion. Thats sick. I would have a limit at 1 - 2 weeks. Maybe a month at the max. But no more

 

[jaamal]

Is she still with her boyfriend?


I would never have an abortion in my opinion it is wrong, but people should not lose their choice, and I will not force my thoughts onto anyone I do not personally know.

 

[eXact]

Or it could be the person who ends human civilization. That logic does not apply, since the future hasn't happened yet. It's still wide open.

Yet u are removing the child's potential, hence still applies. Shredder, hasn't this been debated before? Glad you finally stickied it

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I know someone who got pregnant, the boyfriend wanted an abortion she didnt. They both decieded to keep it. 4 months down the road. He gets her to have an abortion. Thats sick. I would have a limit at 1 - 2 weeks. Maybe a month at the max. But no more

I agree with you, after 4 months it is definately a living entity =/