Counter-Scamming

[Arcus Isidar]

I think this rule really needs to be looked at as it currently favours scammers.

I recently had a situation where I'm out 450M because of a DDOS while staking, and the DDOSer happened to supply gold to me, there was conclusive proof it was this certain supplier who did it (I showed to Pockets), yet I couldn't recover my 450M from the 1000M he sold me afterwards.

If this isn't allowed, I'd like to ask a question:

1) If I sell an account, and the person pays me PayPal for it, am I allowed to recover the account if they chargeback the payment?

 

[Homie]

I really think this should be looked at to, maybe not exactly just allowing people to take back there things.
But if the scammed person can provide sufficient proof to a mod that he can get his items back from a scammer then he should be able to do so.

 

[K1llswitch]

Well in the case of someone charging back money for an account, i think the person being charged back definitely has the right to recover the account, vice versa. Imo i think this applies to all forms of scamming too

 

[PrayerKid]

I think if someone were to per-say do something like that you have the right to take your account back as it's the same thing he stole from you, so you get your account back, vise versa.

This should be looked at for sure, as recovering an account from someone who charged back on you, should be allowed for sure.

 

[S]

Staff, in very rare cases are allowed to counter scam. It's a grey area. IMO, it shouldn't be done, only in that of an extreme circumstance. We all know, that a boatload of 'newcomer' gold sellers, meaning, those who sell to reputable traders users are more than often previous scammers/impersonators etc. If counter scamming were to be in place, Sythe would lose quite alot of activity.

1) If I sell an account, and the person pays me PayPal for it, am I allowed to recover the account if they chargeback the payment?

In response to charging back a payment, if the purchased account as been recovered, yes, as far as I am aware, you're allowed to reverse the payment.

 

[Eru]

You are definitely right when you recover the account if the scammer charges back.
And I think it is also right not to pay for that 450M.

 

[bob1337]

I would support arcus in this case, it is his 450m and he is just taking it back, as long as he pays for the other 650m.

 

[iTeVion]

I'd definatly support arcus, if someone scams the account and charges back, i think that gives you the right to recover.

 

[S]

The OP isn't asking opinions on recovering account/payment, more so if it's allowed, and whether or not counter scamming in general should be acceptable.

 

[iTeVion]

The OP isn't asking opinions on recovering account/payment, more so if it's allowed, and whether or not counter scamming in general should be acceptable.

It's an example of counter scamming. I fully agree if you want my honest opinion.

 

[Trollerz]

I feel that if the seller ddosed him during staking which resulted in an unfair loss of 450m, then that seller must either return the money or be banned. I had a friend (chaseolio) who admitted to switching out items. No proof, not with any members on here, but just saying he did. He was banned, and I don't think he's been unbanned. But the fact that he used a tactic pretty much forbidden on this site and it was targeted against a member of this site, then he should be required to either pay up the 450, or get banned.

As for the second question, I would most definitely recover an account if the person opened up any kind of dispute, but only after taking pictures of the disputed transaction(s) and making a scammer report.

As for counter scamming in general, I believe you should only do so if it was YOU that got scammed. For example, someone buys an account off you for 100 dollars. He disputes the money and wins, and you recover the account. However, it is not acceptable if you sell a person an item or account, and then later that buyer gets banned for scamming someone else.

 

[Arcus Isidar]

I'm not asking if I could, I'm just expressing disagreement due to my circumstance. (by the way, I did pay the full amount so it's no longer an issue)

 

[sm321]

I think I remember hearing someone do this before and it was allowed. The best person to ask is a moderator or Sythe himself.

 

Even if it's not directly involved, if I was able to get a scammer for the amount he owes to Sythe users, I would. Sucks it's not allowed.

Let's wait for staff's input.

 

[Annex]

It used to be allowed and staff used to do it, I don't know what point it stopped being allowed.

 

[Heads447]

If someone robs your house and steals like a TV set from you, it doesnt make it right to rob them back steal from them. Stealing is stealing, scamming is scamming...

 

If someone robs your house and steals like a TV set from you, it doesnt make it right to rob them back steal from them. Stealing is stealing, scamming is scamming...

IMO. You are in the right of going to his house and get YOUR TV set back.

 

[Eru]

IMO. You are in the right of going to his house and get YOUR TV set back.

Exactly.

Btw, why is counter-scamming not allowed?

 

[Heads447]

IMO. You are in the right of going to his house and get YOUR TV set back.

Morally I agree, but its still against the law. Society would be chaotic if there were no rules against it and EVERYONE was allowed to do that.

 

[win4fun]

IMO. You are in the right of going to his house and get YOUR TV set back.

The unethical part isn't taking the TV back, its how you go about doing it (breaking and entering). In arcus's situation, taking back something that his to make up for what was stolen seems fine, its just the method of doing so (recovering an account) is a bit underhanded imo.