Corey

[Grave]

I'd like to point out that we signed that contract AFTER the orders were already gone through and delivered. You cannot legally bind me to actions that have happened beforehand, nor can you prove that I did not follow RSUltimate guidelines.

Actually, the chargeback came in after you signed the contract, so the chargeback responsibility lays on you. I can have my sister double check this by reading through the entire contract, to see if you would be legally liable for it, as she's a lawyer and would better be able to know. Even so, everything outlined in the contract was explained to you guys before the contract was created. As I stated earlier, the contract was only created in the event that a dispute such as this one might arise, so all the information would be compact together. Nothing major was added to this contract, and for you to say so would be an outright lie.

Might I remind you that I still do have logs of these Skype conversations somewhere. I don't think it would be necessary, but I can load up the 100K+ Skype messages I have saved up in log format and search through them to find the portions where I explained to you guys what you can and cannot do. Please do understand that you're still responsible for what you agree to in conversations. We can ask more RSUltimate workers who worked before this incident so they can explain what exactly they were expected to do, and what they were held responsible for.


Here's some more evidence that you knew this before the order took place. You actually agreed to this via private message on March 25. This was our first form of contract, and it was just getting together what you already knew:

Wrongfully filling orders, such as giving the gold when you are not supposed to, not following procedures which includes confirming IP and phone number and keeping evidence of the trade, will incur a $100 fee per transaction plus the cost of the order.

Everything is subject to change. Please quote this and reply back with your full name to agree to the terms.

Obviously this was a little more vague, so it was expanded upon when the full contract was complete. As I remember it, we had issues coming up with a way for you to sign the contract, so it wasn't until April that I purchased the signature software, originally intended for workers to sign this contract legally.

As per the msn logs, I've answered that countless times saying that we were only required to keep proof for 180 days.

Please stop citing this. You did not give the information requested directly after the chargeback. Are you disagreeing that you only provided screenshots? In your eyes, what did you provide when you were requested evidence for the chargeback?


Your only two arguments that remains is a vague and childish, 'you can't prove this' and 'I lost my proof that makes me innocent.' I very well proved my point excessively. Would you also like to see the e-mail we sent to Google disputing the chargeback, which shows just how little evidence you provided? Would you like me to dig up the unorganized pile of evidence you sent to me after leaving RSUltimate? Would you like me to dig up the Skype conversations or have other workers testify that you knew of these procedures before delivering the Mayberry orders? What type of evidence do you want from me? What will convince you that you were in fact in the wrong?

(edit) In addition, are you saying that you called Mayberry without knowing it was part of the procedure? Why else would you call him, or did you just make that up? Now we're left with this: either you actually called Mayberry, knew you had to do it, and never gave me the evidence as you were supposed to for the chargeback, or you never knew you had to do so, and lied about doing so on this thread.​

 

[Corey]

Actually, the chargeback came in after you signed the contract, so the chargeback responsibility lays on you. I can have my sister double check this by reading through the entire contract, to see if you would be legally liable for it, as she's a lawyer and would better be able to know. Even so, everything outlined in the contract was explained to you guys before the contract was created. As I stated earlier, the contract was only created in the event that a dispute such as this one might arise, so all the information would be compact together. Nothing major was added to this contract, and for you to say so would be an outright lie.

Might I remind you that I still do have logs of these Skype conversations somewhere. I don't think it would be necessary, but I can load up the 100K+ Skype messages I have saved up in log format and search through them to find the portions where I explained to you guys what you can and cannot do. Please do understand that you're still responsible for what you agree to in conversations. We can ask more RSUltimate workers who worked before this incident so they can explain what exactly they were expected to do, and what they were held responsible for.


Here's some more evidence that you knew this before the order took place. You actually agreed to this via private message on March 25. This was our first form of contract, and it was just getting together what you already knew:





Obviously this was a little more vague, so it was expanded upon when the full contract was complete. As I remember it, we had issues coming up with a way for you to sign the contract, so it wasn't until April that I purchased the signature software, originally intended for workers to sign this contract legally.




Please stop citing this. You did not give the information requested directly after the chargeback. Are you disagreeing that you only provided screenshots? In your eyes, what did you provide when you were requested evidence for the chargeback?


Your only two arguments that remains is a vague and childish, 'you can't prove this' and 'I lost my proof that makes me innocent.' I very well proved my point excessively. Would you also like to see the e-mail we sent to Google disputing the chargeback, which shows just how little evidence you provided? Would you like me to dig up the unorganized pile of evidence you sent to me after leaving RSUltimate? Would you like me to dig up the Skype conversations or have other workers testify that you knew of these procedures before delivering the Mayberry orders? What type of evidence do you want from me? What will convince you that you were in fact in the wrong?​

We were told to take screenshots of the trade in-game, as well as confirm via phone, check IPs, etc. The IPs were legitimate (came back to the correct location, etc), and the phone number was legitimate (remember we even called them after to investigate them using the phone numbers listed in the order). You cannot truthfully tell me that anything within those orders were incorrect, as you know just as well as I do that the IPs were legitimate, and the phone numbers were real and belonging to them.

The contract was signed AFTER the orders were delivered and therefore any of the misconduct that you claim to have happened was not legally binded by the contract at that time. In any event, I know that I delivered those orders correctly so it doesn't really make a difference.

Not only do I no longer have skype logs to defend myself this late in the game, but half of the things we talked about was via voice chat.

My hands are tied here, I was told that I was not responsible for the entire order, just the commission, so I have no reason to hang onto anything to defend myself. I'll sit out from here on in and let a staff member handle it. I trust you guys will make the right decision based on the proof provided.

 

[Grave]

We were told to take screenshots of the trade in-game, as well as confirm via phone, check IPs, etc. The IPs were legitimate (came back to the correct location, etc), and the phone number was legitimate (remember we even called them after to investigate them using the phone numbers listed in the order). You cannot truthfully tell me that anything within those orders were incorrect, as you know just as well as I do that the IPs were legitimate, and the phone numbers were real and belonging to them.

Why did you not provide proof of the phone calls then, Corey? Do you realize how much this would have helped us in the chargeback dispute? Why did you lie to me and say you didn't have it?

The contract was signed AFTER the orders were delivered and therefore any of the misconduct that you claim to have happened was not legally binded by the contract at that time. In any event, I know that I delivered those orders correctly so it doesn't really make a difference.

You just told me that you were required to do all that, so it's misconduct if you didn't do it and keep the evidence for it. So just because you 'know' that you, yourself, delivered it correctly, none of my evidence stands?

Not only do I no longer have skype logs to defend myself this late in the game, but half of the things we talked about was via voice chat.

There's nothing to defend yourself against. You did not provide the phone calls when I requested them for the chargeback. Just go ahead and tell me, 'yes I did,' and I'll prove you wrong.

My hands are tied here, I was told that I was not responsible for the entire order, just the commission, so I have no reason to hang onto anything to defend myself. I'll sit out from here on in and let a staff member handle it. I trust you guys will make the right decision based on the proof provided.

Allow me to more accurately paraphrase what I said. It went something like this:

Corey, you delivered the Mayberry orders wrong, as did everyone else. Everyone is cooperating to just pay back the commission, and you're being difficult. If it comes to it, I have to report you, and if I report you, the evidence will show that you're fully responsible for it. Please just cooperate and pay me back the commission. If you go ahead and do this, I'll drop everything else.

Now, a few important things to note:
1. You never took advantage of that opportunity and continued defying my requests to just pay back the commission
2. That offer has expired. Come on man, you can't just agree to something like that and not hold up your end of it.


And as I stated, if staff members want to acquit you of the full amount just because I made you that offer a year ago (yes, I'm not denying I did), they so be it, but that doesn't make you any less guilty of the crimes. I would however ask that the staff vote on this. Once again, try to think of this situation: Two friends get in a car wreck. one friend says to the other, 'hey man, I don't want any trouble, so just give me the $100 to fix my bumper and it's fine. The other friend first says no, then agreed when the other friend says he will have to take him to court, without ever paying the $100. Now they're at court, and the friend cites this as a way of not paying for the full damaged.' If that sounds legit, then I'm just being grumpy.​

 

[Corey]

Why did you not provide proof of the phone calls then, Corey? Do you realize how much this would have helped us in the chargeback dispute? Why did you lie to me and say you didn't have it?




You just told me that you were required to do all that, so it's misconduct if you didn't do it and keep the evidence for it. So just because you 'know' that you, yourself, delivered it correctly, none of my evidence stands?



There's nothing to defend yourself against. You did not provide the phone calls when I requested them for the chargeback. Just go ahead and tell me, 'yes I did,' and I'll prove you wrong.




Allow me to more accurately paraphrase what I said. It went something like this:

Corey, you delivered the Mayberry orders wrong, as did everyone else. Everyone is cooperating to just pay back the commission, and you're being difficult. If it comes to it, I have to report you, and if I report you, the evidence will show that you're fully responsible for it. Please just cooperate and pay me back the commission. If you go ahead and do this, I'll drop everything else.

Now, a few important things to note:
1. You never took advantage of that opportunity and continued defying my requests to just pay back the commission
2. That offer has expired. Come on man, you can't just agree to something like that and not hold up your end of it.


And as I stated, if staff members want to acquit you of the full amount just because I made you that offer a year ago (yes, I'm not denying I did), they so be it, but that doesn't make you any less guilty of the crimes. I would however ask that the staff vote on this. Once again, try to think of this situation: Two friends get in a car wreck. one friend says to the other, 'hey man, I don't want any trouble, so just give me the $100 to fix my bumper and it's fine. The other friend first says no, then agreed when the other friend says he will have to take him to court, without ever paying the $100. Now they're at court, and the friend cites this as a way of not paying for the full damaged.' If that sounds legit, then I'm just being grumpy.​

I'm going by recollection here, because again, I don't have any evidence mainly because its far too late to get it now, and I was under the understanding that I wouldn't need it.

We were not required to keep phone call records until a while into my RSUltimate career, I won't go ahead and hazard to guess when this was. Whatever happened, I'd put my life and Sythe account on it that you were contacted about those orders and allowed their delivery. I remember this very well because I was taking over Dorian's shift and he had just returned when I was talking to the customer and he stepped in.

It's hard for me to explain everything, as it was so long ago, and its hard to remember everything accurately.

As I said, I'll just let a staff member review the evidence that you have, and trust that they will make the right decision, keeping in mind that at this late in the game it is impossible for me to defend myself using any real evidence.

No offense to anyone, but I would prefer that this be a member of upper staff.

 

[Karl]

I've posted this in the SL; It'll be reviewed accordingly.

 

[Grave]

I'm going by recollection here, because again, I don't have any evidence mainly because its far too late to get it now, and I was under the understanding that I wouldn't need it.

It's hard for me to explain everything, as it was so long ago, and its hard to remember everything accurately.

Keep in mind that I'm at a disadvantage here as well. If I could go back in time, I would have made this report before trying to settle it with you in private for over a year. Who delayed it all this time? I was being as cooperative as I could, gave you what you asked for, and you simply put it off. I'm not even asking you to provide evidence. I told to merely state that you provided those calls you said you had when I was disputing the chargebacks, and you can't even do that.

We were not required to keep phone call records until a while into my RSUltimate career, I won't go ahead and hazard to guess when this was. Whatever happened, I'd put my life and Sythe account on it that you were contacted about those orders and allowed their delivery. I remember this very well because I was taking over Dorian's shift and he had just returned when I was talking to the customer and he stepped in.

Right, and this was a while into your RSUltimate career. When you worked with Finn was when you didn't have to keep records. When you worked with Hahanerd was the time you did, aka when this happened. You keep going back and forth: either you weren't required to do it, or you were and did it, but you're not willing to even say you gave it to me when I asked for it, because the truth is, you didn't.

As I said, I'll just let a staff member review the evidence that you have, and trust that they will make the right decision, keeping in mind that at this late in the game it is impossible for me to defend myself using any real evidence.

I certainly hope they also take into your account your change of stories, refusal of cooperation, and clever use of words to simply neither confirm nor deny some of my allegations.

I've posted this in the SL; It'll be reviewed accordingly.

Thank you Karl.​

 

[Corey]

Keep in mind that I'm at a disadvantage here as well. If I could go back in time, I would have made this report before trying to settle it with you in private for over a year. Who delayed it all this time? I was being as cooperative as I could, gave you what you asked for, and you simply put it off. I'm not even asking you to provide evidence. I told to merely state that you provided those calls you said you had when I was disputing the chargebacks, and you can't even do that.



Right, and this was a while into your RSUltimate career. When you worked with Finn was when you didn't have to keep records. When you worked with Hahanerd was the time you did, aka when this happened. You keep going back and forth: either you weren't required to do it, or you were and did it, but you're not willing to even say you gave it to me when I asked for it, because the truth is, you didn't.




I certainly hope they also take into your account your change of stories, refusal of cooperation, and clever use of words to simply neither confirm nor deny some of my allegations.






Thank you Karl.​

I haven't been changing my stories, I never did say I sent you proof of the calls, please show me where I did.

If you wish to get into it, you contacted me 4-5 times about this matter, each time you were okay with my situation and understood, even this time when you said you were in no rush. This time that you contacted me I was actually getting into the financial position to pay it, and as soon as I simply asked you to FORWARD a pm to me before I pay you, you decide to just go ahead and try to get the full amount instead.

 

[Grave]

I haven't been changing my stories, I never did say I sent you proof of the calls, please show me where I did.

Okay, so you were required to do the calls and did them, but when it came to actually providing them to fight the chargeback, you didn't give them to me as requested. This alone makes you responsible for it. Or are you still going to go with the whole 'I wasn't required to do it, but it did it anyway' thing?

If you wish to get into it, you contacted me 4-5 times about this matter, each time you were okay with my situation and understood, even this time when you said you were in no rush. This time that you contacted me I was actually getting into the financial position to pay it, and as soon as I simply asked you to FORWARD a pm to me before I pay you, you decide to just go ahead and try to get the full amount instead.

I was never in any rush. I just grew defensive as you showed that you possessed the money to pay me back, but never did. I still am in no sure. I just want to make sure you don't weasel your way out of it. As you stated, the more time that passes by, the more evidence that is lost, which is why I decided to create this report.

By the way, I contacted you several months before the most recent time I contacted you, telling you to start collecting money for it. Did you cooperate? No, you just did that thing that I cannot mention (Govind edited it out, it's in SL) instead. Keep in mind I already contacted you a little before I did two days ago, and when I contacted you again, you simply tried dropping talks of giving me a date that you would be able to pay it back. Either way, we've grown far out of that with the new evidence I have brought up in this report. Also remember, you asked me to do the same thing three times. Yes, the first time you disagreed to paying anything, asked for evidence. I gave it to you, you said you were in a tough financial situation, sure. Second time, I remind you, you ask for evidence again. I continue reminding you, and then recently, you ask for the evidence again. This time I private message it, all is well, I'm still waiting on you, and then I message you about it again, and you ask for the evidence again, and say you still can't afford it pay it, and refuse to give a date.

All of this is already outlined in my original post.

 

[Corey]

Okay, so you were required to do the calls and did them, but when it came to actually providing them to fight the chargeback, you didn't give them to me as requested. This alone makes you responsible for it. Or are you still going to go with the whole 'I wasn't required to do it, but it did it anyway' thing?




I was never in any rush. I just grew defensive as you showed that you possessed the money to pay me back, but never did. I still am in no sure. I just want to make sure you don't weasel your way out of it. As you stated, the more time that passes by, the more evidence that is lost, which is why I decided to create this report.

By the way, I contacted you several months before the most recent time I contacted you, telling you to start collecting money for it. Did you cooperate? No, you just did that thing that I cannot mention (Govind edited it out, it's in SL) instead. Keep in mind I already contacted you a little before I did two days ago, and when I contacted you again, you simply tried dropping talks of giving me a date that you would be able to pay it back. Either way, we've grown far out of that with the new evidence I have brought up in this report. Also remember, you asked me to do the same thing three times. Yes, the first time you disagreed to paying anything, asked for evidence. I gave it to you, you said you were in a tough financial situation, sure. Second time, I remind you, you ask for evidence again. I continue reminding you, and then recently, you ask for the evidence again. This time I private message it, all is well, I'm still waiting on you, and then I message you about it again, and you ask for the evidence again, and say you still can't afford it pay it, and refuse to give a date.

All of this is already outlined in my original post.

I guess I'll have to PM you to further explain that, because obviously you don't understand everything.

 

[Corey]

You are not responding to me on msn, so I'll make a new post so hopefully you can see it.

Grave: Please clear up a little space in your inbox so I can send you the PM I said I would above.

 

[Grave]

Corey and I have discussed the terms of paying me back, and this is how I see it:

• If he is only expected to pay back the commissions, he will pay me back in the next 2-3 days via Google Checkout (he covers fees), Moneybookers (I cover fees), or Postal Money Order (I'll cover the cost of stamps up to $1)
• If he is found to be responsible for the full amount, the commissions will be paid back as outlined above, and we will further discuss a payment plan for the rest

Please go ahead and confirm this, Corey, or make changes here.​

 

[Corey]

Confirming what grave said. After we get a final decision we will figure out how to send the money.

 

[Karl]

Just an update - Waiting for votes now; There has been discussions amongst those who have read all of this, i made it a requirement that you may only contribute to the resolution of this if you knew all of details.

 

[Karl]

If Grave had more solid evidence, We'd have considered holding Corey liable, but as it is there's no way we should hold him responsible for the orders. Grave even admits a lot of it is from memory and may be wrong.

- and Apart from that, many globals picked up on problematic parts of the contract, such as parts as

He also must provide evidence and prove that it was Corey that made the chargeback indisputable as it states:

Any misstep in the provided guidelines may cause damages to RSULTIMATE.COM, in which case must be paid in full to RSULTIMATE.COM by Worker, if any misconduct or failure to carry out procedures occurs. By signing this agreement, You agree to follow everything listed in this agreement to the best of Your ability, and to hold Yourself accountable for any damages caused.

If he can not show that if Corey had done nothing wrong the chargebacks could have been undone then he doesn't deserve anything.

Corey has to pay the commissions back, and nothing else, and the only reason we think that is because you said you would - Please follow the arrangements that have already been posted by yourselves.