Open discussion regarding miniranks

Approximately four years ago, I put forward an idea in the Sythe technical core, that was partially implemented. Some portions of this idea was torn apart over time, and today I would like to ask the community for their input regarding the original idea, as well as re-iterating the changes, and moving forward with the rest.

The initial issues, where this was presented years ago:

• Miniranks were spam rewarded and devalued, with each minirank having an uncertain future, such as the penguin rank going from super rare to inflated.
• Miniranks had no frame of reference for their value and due to the low quantity traded, people essentially got ripped off or were uninterested in them immediately in terms of trading.
• Miniranks no longer had any organization in terms of how they were given, which were tradeable and which were not, and what they represented.

A little history:

• Miniranks initially started as a fun way for active Sythe members to decorate their user posts. They were provided, indiscriminately, to those who posted around the spam forum, helped around on the site, without placing much value or an indication of seriousness as funranks did.
• They started being traded as quantities were essentially randomly assigned, with them having more value near beginning until they were spawned in a wishy-washy way and devalued, then then some preservation/stabilization as they were slightly organized.
• They were randomly created for events, and given out by the Community Development team, also with a lack of organization, barring miniranks specifically created for an event. At some point there was organization, but then boxes/random ranks were given.
• Pokemon miniranks were added and not fully implemented, and given out before they were prepared or implemented properly. Due to the way these were distributed and due to the high quantity, these became the "rarest" but not really as intended, which was to let people all collect them, essentially like Pokemon games.
• Some parts of the organization was done per project below.

The initial TC project:

• Pokemon miniranks should be corrected to represent their original intention without hurting those who already invested in them. This would be not randomly giving them away for random unrelated events, and in some way being used to reward active members on Sythe (letting people find them in threads, for playing on the old Pixelmon server, and adding some sort of purpose to them where people can have fun trading/using them.) Actual common pokemon should have been common, with the rarer ones more rare (rattata vs mew.)
• Updating the minirank index to list the specific level of rarities, showing the community what would be done/assured to maintain a similar level of rarity or disclose if they would not be maintained, essentially help people learn more about them in an organized manner. Grouping them more correctly, for the ones that have multiple miniranks in one category.
• Miniranks should have more specific purposes in general, so just as the pokemon miniranks were pokemon related, we wouldn't have random, let's say, Halloween related ones in an arbirary prizebox or given out during Christmas.
• Start utilizing caps on miniranks, with some having higher caps than others, to generate more interest, more trading, and making some more desirable in general. Ensuring more unique miniranks than a higher quantity of the same miniranks.
• To organize caps, we would have different tier prize boxes. Let people grind existing miniranks into prizeboxes, and then upgrading prizeboxes into higher tier prizeboxes. Adding new miniranks in the appropriate prizeboxes, and having a higher quantity of unique miniranks for prizeboxes that have a lower cap.
• Implementing Sythe gold appropriately to purchase miniranks and trading of miniranks. This essentially allows members to earn miniranks since they can earn Sythe gold, it would be a cool way to reward active members and make sure they stay for all Sythe users rather than just some.
• Preserve the sanctity of miniranks and have more assurances. A specific example that was brought up was not undervaluing someone's deed: in the Pixelmon server, whoever was essentially most active in a certain way obtained a minirank and then others earned the same minirank with much less effort at a later time.
• Putting all the holiday miniranks into one holiday badge that is tradeable, and then turning them untradeable as it doesn't make sense to participate in an event a long time ago and then be able to trade it away/buy it from someone and pretend like you were there. Alternatively, taking off the numbers in the corner and leaving them tradeable and renaming them (such as St Patrick day 2017 becomes the four leaf clover rank.)
• Adding new miniranks to pad some tiers/balance them out and ensure they do not run out of quantities, adding more relatable/cooler miniranks to the higher tiers. Adding more relatable miniranks for CDT to give away for events, rather than just prizeboxes.
• Speaking to CDT about not just giving high-tier miniranks for events, and to ensure they maintain some level of organization when it comes to minirank rewards.
• More specifically when it comes to categories, create an overwatch category, holidays, non-tradeable, league of legends, participation, and miscellaneous to de-clutter main pool and organize miniranks.

What was actually implemented from the initial project:

• Quantity limits added to miniranks
• Different tier prizeboxes
• Doing the above based on current rarity and desirability of the pop culture reference
• Coloring the prizeboxes differently

This is how miniranks were originally planned on being tiered:

This was later updated:

And finally, tier 8 was in the initial phase, but it would become the tier with only unique miniranks, 1 quantity limit.

What seems to have actually happened is that we cut out the unlimited tier, and there may have either been some error when adding these or they were moved around, and colors were never done.

This means that Tier 5 would essentially become tier 4, for example, ending with tier 7 instead of 8, with tier 8 being the unique quantity tier. Unfortunately, we ran into some problems here which we will discuss after listing them.

• T1 - Purple (250 limit)
  
  
• T2 - Purple (150 Limit)
  
  
• T3 - Purple (50 Limit)
  
  
• T4 - Purple (25 Limit)
  
  T5 - Purple (10 Limit)
  
  
• T6 - Purple (5 Limit)
  
  
• T7 - Purple (1 Limit)
  

What went wrong so far:

• Tier 7, which was now Tier 6, had a "placeholder" since it was not ready yet and I believe this is how it was coded. Tier 8 as well (which was now tier 7.)
• It appears the talks with the Community Development team either did not take place correctly or it was not very productive. As a result they are giving or gave away Tier 6 and Tier 7 boxes even though they were never ready, resulting in members actually receiving Tier 5 miniranks. In my opinion higher tiers such as this should not have been given out in the first place as it immediately devalues them, and they were meant to either be the peak for trading up boxes (tier 6) or absolutely custom miniranks (tier 7) reserved for a high level of contribution or very large donation to the website.
• Tier 5 has incorrect quantity limits for some miniranks, with dragon ball having a 50 cap, feels bad man having 25, and 420 yolo swag having 50.
• New miniranks were added but without the proper limits or being placed in a tier, meaning they are unlimited quantity even though I assume some may have been assumed to be rare.

What I believe is important to immediately implement/correct:

• Updating/categorizing the directory better
• Correcting the quantity caps
• Encouraging grinding to ensure things level out and undesirable miniranks are recycled
• Implementing the trade-up for prizeboxes
• Adding new miniranks for CDT events, and to pad out tiers to ensure they have a good variety/quantity
• Taking out the placeholders for T6/7 by adding new desirable mini ranks here and ensuring CDT will at least not give away miniranks in these tiers (they already weren't anyway, they were essentially giving away T5 boxes without noticing.)

Then I think we should move forward with the rest of the changes, but I wanted to hear from you guys first.[/QUOTE]

 

@Grave

Thoughts in no particular order:
-Welcome back!
-I think the Pokemon miniranks were a bad idea in retrospect (why introduce 500 new miniranks overnight?), or at the very least the implementation was severely lacking.
-I played Pixelmon and had no idea it was supposed to be tied to miniranks.
-Minirank caps would be nice. I didn't realize these were actually implemented. They should really appear on the minirank directory, if so. (Also tell Matthew to make that thing sortable - it's a mess)
-Trading Sythe gold for miniranks would be nice.
-The above two points will help fix the value of miniranks over time.
-No strong feelings on old event miniranks. My preference would probably be to just give out a "four leaf clover" minirank and keep them tradable. Many miniranks were created as a joke at some point, and almost no one recognizes "that minirank that so and so created when that crazy thing happened" anymore. I don't even own most of miniranks I created because they just lost their meaning over time.
-I love the idea of putting miniranks in tiers as originally described.
-However, tiered prizeboxes have always confused me (given the current state of miniranks, not the intended state of miniranks). Whatever you guys do needs to clear up exactly how they're tiered or why that matters. I think a lot of this can be done by improving the minirank directory.
-Everything you mentioned as important to implement is important to implement. If you just do that stuff things will be SO much better.

 

I don't remember if I posted on this way back when, but I do know that miniranks do definitely need some reworking. I definitely trust and appreciate you @Grave taking the time to make this post, and reiterating the issues that you believe exist. If there is a way to correct the pokemon ranks that would be great. I believe that holiday badges should be untradeable to begin with, which would make removing the year obsolete anyways. But if they are to remain tradeable, I think they should have years removed. As for your immediate issues, categorizing would be extremely helpful, based on tier/rarity depending which makes more sense. Getting caps to where they should be would be beneficial to add more ranks into the market. Recycling is important, it would make it so things are slightly rarer than before but can also add new ranks. Trading up for boxes is also great, obviously up to a certain tier but would be good regardless. CDT should absolutely hold events for miniranks, I'm sure even a few people would join events just for the chance at miniranks. And replacing the placeholders with better miniranks would also be beneficial for the system, allowing new miniranks to take their place and rarity. Again, thanks for the post Grave, nice to see you back and ready to kick some minirank butt.

 

[/QUOTE]


Love the thread and it is quite obvious the mini-rank market needs updating where people are sending a few thousand on them. I believe the guide to miniranks also needs updating. The only problem I have with your suggestion is the way you have grouped some minis. It should be already rarer minis in higher tier boxes and something needs to be done about donating. Too many t1's have flooded the market. I was in the process of writing this suggestion properly this time around. I don't know what t7 mini is called but what makes that a tier 7 mini compared to others? You put poker chip in tier 5 when there is 50 of them same as dragon ball like 50 but llama only 2 in same category. Bojack and carrot less than 10 but they are in tier 4?

I agree it needs changing without effecting people who are already invested. I think mini ranks are cool and mean way more than donor status and acts as a form of collateral. Also no offence to CDT but I feel the the community events are the same stuff recycled again and again. If miniranks are sorted out there is so much potential for much better events than bloody hide n seeks and mainly graphics related events.

 

You should not be able to trade mini-ranks.

 

I agree with @MAGZ on this because these are individual mini-ranks reached when certain criteria is met and trading it takes away from the value in my opinion.

 

I wasnt even aware that we could trade mini ranks. Assumed they were like achievements

 

Both of these are what I was thinking. Achievement based as opposed to trading based makes more sense.

Especially since every ban evader comes in and decorates their profile to make them look more relevant.

 

@above 3 posts - People have spent thousands of dollars trying to acquire specific miniranks. Minirank trading is not going away, nor is that what this conversation is really about...

 

If you want to try and adjust acquisition to keep inflation low, maybe apply some requisite to be met prior to trading? This way the individuals with lots of extra capital cant just go and gobble up the mini-ranks and prevent other active users from getting them.

I've been in and out since 2008 sneaking in the shadows as a regular user. I would love to be able to acquire some mini-ranks! But I feel like as a lone player; playing just for fun and a little bit of a side hustle. It's harder for me to gain entry to the "rank" market. Now, this could just be perception and ignorance on my part. Again though a majority of the ranks (In my opinion) don't describe how they came to fruition, or how they could, have, or had been acquired.

I do like the option of making old event ranks untradable. But I believe those should stay as is. Then develop something like Runescape has done with its yearly events. You get to earn something, like the 4 leaf clover. But this is static for every St. Patricks day. Thus if you missed it in 2020 you could still get it but not until the following calendar year.

 

@Grave
Any update on this?

 

@Sythe can we do some of the non-controversial stuff here?

Prizebox colors, I already sent you all of these via Discord DM but both our Discords are deleted so I'll include them here:



Then what you need to do to fix a couple easy bugs/issues. These pretty much HAVE to be done because they're not even improvements its just unintended issues.

• If a tiered prizebox doesn't have anything in it, seems like it defaults to including something. Code it to where it just doesn't let you open it for now?
• Take out the diamond and creeper from T6/T7
• Change the quantity limit of the dragon ball, feels bad man, and 420 yolo swag to 10 quantity per the tier they're in.
  
• Go through all miniranks that were added more recently, and ensure they're in a tier and have a quantity limit based on the tier (probably best if you just force default quantity limits depending on the tier its in rather than individual quantities.)
• Remember that miniranks that are unlimited can just go in Tier 1 so that should just be the default for new ranked added unless specified.

What you should do but can defer, these are the non-controversial changes:

1. Have CDT (@Saad ) or whoever make a graphics art or design competition where people make a bunch of new miniranks, and people vote on them. Most popular ones go in the higher tiers to pad them. Winner gets the minirank as a prize. PUT THEM IN THE CORRECT TIERS (obviously this means none would go in tier 7 because then only the creator would get the 1 of 1.)
2. Clean up miniranks (I can do this if you re-authorize me on the organizer thingy) by putting all the unique ranks, as in 1 in 1 (excluding pokemons til we figure that out) into Tier 7. So they don't spam all the other tiers or get spawned in the future when they were meant to be unique.
3. Trade-up/grind for prizeboxes. This is something essential to the whole tiered system that was never added and it just has to be or else the whole system doesn't make sense and undoing it at this point would piss people off, leaving it broken is also not ideal. Something like 2-3 prizebox of the lower tier = prizebox of next tier, and grinding 5-10 miniranks of the same tier turns into one prizebox of the next tier (don't allow tier 1 to trade up directly but still allow grinding 10 for tier 2.)

This doesn't include everything but it's a very needed start.

 

I really like the idea where new miniranks are introduced through a gfx competition, this is both beneficial as an event (community involvement with voting on which miniranks are introduced) along with new miniranks implemented. I would also like to add my personal opinion that miniranks should not just be able to be "spawned" that defeats the purpose.

 

Yeah honestly @Sythe not to distract you from the other post but spawning miniranks is basically fucked. You said they weren't meant to have value yet moderators can get one for free for their work and they get to just spawn it and then trade it off? And one issue I've always had with CDT essentially spawning them is that they create these events then PARTICIPATE in the event themselves. They are most likely to create an event they clearly like or are good at, and then they participate in it themselves and can win the prize in the event they created? It discourages others.

Miniranks were supposed to be given out to others in events/for activity and stuff like that, and as you've said to basically appease people that hated how funranks weren't given out and only given to staff/their friends or whatever and miniranks just turned into that too. Everyone who is going to be against this is just people who can spawn it or are close to people who can just spawn them, you shouldn't let that be the way it happens it's just unfair. If it helps the site, even via creating trading for miniranks, creating activity, or basically doing anything productive then that's great. And I'm not saying staff shouldn't be "incentivized" in some way but I'd rather they just stick to spawning eachother funranks than miniranks because otherwise miniranks have turned into the exact opposite of what they were meant to be, in every way. People should be able to be excited about getting cool/rare miniranks without being forced into just ONLY buying them.

You don't have to undo the trade aspect of it for money, because we're a trading community but there's no reason to not try to at least shift the initial good intentions back where they were with miniranks. And it's possible to do that WITHOUT devaluing them and making the other side pissed. Literally everyone will benefit (other than the elite, who would no longer be able to just spawn money.)

 

Very valid points by both Grave and Bert. I think the new mini ranks can be added gradually and could actually be given as CDT event rewards and could allow for better-related events instead of the same creating graphics. Just a few examples on top of my head yugioh minis were suggested but rejected could have yugioh cdt events some footballer related minis with fifa events cod etc etc. I think CDT is missing a huge market by not hosting console related events or other popular games. These are just some ideas on top of my head as I am a little busy right now for a few days so sorry for bad sentence structure but in terms of substance it is all there. I think the events I suggested would have high demand regardless of prizes and I think more community fun based events should be encouraged. I will personally host some myself when I am less busy.

On a side note what is happening with this suggestion? Reducing minirank prizeboxes to a single tier While I think this was a decent suggestion Grave's was much better. If you make them all T1's it makes T2 T3 and T4 redunant which is unfair on the people who have to them not to mention there are 961 current t1's what will happen to them? I noticed you can now grind 3 minis for a prizebox now but what about grinding rarer miniranks? at the moment this system is basically saying all miniranks have same scrap value.

There was a lot of support on my thread [Denied] Donation perks and Miniranks! despite it being up only for a day but it got closed because a certain retard couldn't handle the truth. Can the guide to miniranks be updated as at the moment it jsut says this for all miniranks "
Given out as a prize for good deeds/competitions/traded by members and giveaways" provids no clarity and allows for certain users to take advantage of newcomers. Finally mods being able to spawn miniranks is the most stupid thing ever and is the worst thing you can do for any type of market. When I was selling rare miniranks because I didn't want to rip anyone off I asked how did certain miniranks come into existence and would more be released so I didn't lie about rarity and the admins didn't know the answers either.