Pardon Appeal (Screenshots, Well Written)

FlamosAppeal · Feb 28, 2018

Profile link: xXFlamoXx
Report/post/reason that got you banned: Reporting xXFlamoXx
Proof of contacting victims for repayment or repayment of victims:
https://i.imgur.com/k4H0bEC.png
https://i.imgur.com/DymMYEc.png
https://i.imgur.com/9Tmx14t.png
https://i.imgur.com/bgSNx9M.png
https://i.imgur.com/YTL0gzA.png
https://i.imgur.com/T5iWX8g.png
Anything you weren't banned for but want to confess to now: No
Detailed description of the events that took place and why you think we should forgive you:
Snowbunnies contacted me through OSBot. We discussed script features, he ordered a script and at some point during our conversation, I gave him my ideal ETA which was roughly 1 day. I said, "it should be done by tomorrow." Of course, the script wasn't finished by then but according to OSBot's old scripting rules I had another 4 days to complete the order. He waited 2 more days then consulted with a Sythe user named "John Devola." This idiot "John Devola" wrote a sythe report for him, even though my private scripting services were being done through and for OSBot. Keep in mind, OSBot's scripting rules and Sythe's scripting rules are different. "Ex" then read the report and took it upon himself to ban my account after seeing a single screenshot of our Skype conversations. I didn't even get the opportunity to respond to the report before I was banned. I was furious, so I messaged my customer and he actually apologized several times then contacted one of your moderators on my behalf. But it was to no avail, the victim of an alleged scam cannot actually withdraw his accusations once the report has been made. So here I am asking for a pardon for an offense that I did not commit.

Also, Azie never responded to my skype msgs so we couldn't work it out through the use of skype live chat: https://i.imgur.com/gvHCJFf.png
Did you fully read and follow this sticky thread in the pardon section?: Yes
Previous pardon link(s) if applicable: N/a

Wortel · Feb 28, 2018

User: xXFlamoXx - Didn't deliver product - Reporting xXFlamoXx
User: Flamo - Gyazo - 6f93d80a4104709f07abcba0b9fc0e78.png - already banned for offsite scam. Said it was him on skype.

Skype: "dan.flamo"
Banned on OSBot: https://osbot.org/forum/profile/202774-easy/

First pardon: Pardoning xXFlamoXx - Denied, weak dispute.
Second pardon: Pardoning xXFlamoXx - Unbanned w/o actual pardon

FlamosAppeal said:
Anything you weren't banned for but want to confess to now: No

Why was nothing about your previous banned account ever mentioned?

First pardon: Dispute for Flamo (Perm Ban)
Second pardon: 5/5 Flamo requesting a pardon for Advocating Use of Leaked Guides

Sadly @Snowbunnies has joined the land of the banned, so I'll be asking around for a bit more opinions. Please be patient.

Wortel · Feb 28, 2018

Last dispute on OSBot: https://osbot.org/forum/topic/118631-dispute-against-dannyflamo/

Just to confirm; instead of refunding @Snowbunnies you both agreed on you getting his script to work, which it does now and still does?

Wortel · Mar 14, 2018

No response, closed.

xXFlamoXx Pardon Acc · Mar 17, 2018

Message to mods:
If you're a moderator reading this message, and you have a lot of experience properly handling disputes, please add my skype. I have Azie added but he rarely responds: dan.flamo

Description:
My pardon was removed. It was never approved or denied. I put more effort into my pardon thread than 99% of the people asking for a pardon. I just don't understand why this happened. I handed you guys a plethora of evidence and described in crystal-clear detail the order of the events that took place. What did I do wrong? Please look through the unapproved threads from January to present. Use the keyword "Flamo"

Comments:
I was wrongfully banned and I have more than enough evidence to prove it. It's been 8 months since the ban, I haven't even attempted to make a single pardon because you guys will just ban me again if a customer gets paranoid and reports me.

You need to understand something: Sythe isn't where I do my private scripting. I script for OSBot and TRiBot. The fact that I own a Sythe account does NOT mean that any of my script sales are Sythe related. In fact, absolutely 0 of my script sales are Sythe related. So when somebody comes to you with a scam report claiming that I haven't delivered a script 2 days after I said it would, don't ban me instantaneously. Wait for me to respond to the dispute thread, allow me to provide you with evidence disproving the claims being made against me. You're smarter than that, and I'm sure your superiors and the players you work with have the same expectations of you.

Wortel · Mar 17, 2018

Old pardon: Pardon Appeal (Screenshots, Well Written)
Closed due to no response. If you wish to bring it back active again please say so and I'll move it back, though I still need your answer on my question there.

Wortel · Mar 19, 2018

FlamoAppealAccount said:
Reason for creating a new account and contacting you via PM:
https://i.imgur.com/IjHYbWS.png
https://i.imgur.com/LI1VmyI.jpg

Now that we've got that out of the way, I just want to say thank you for being so cooperative. I really do appreciate the help. And to answer your question posted on my second pardon thread: Yes, I would like to re-activate my old pardon thread. Could you also give this account permission to respond to the thread? I'm not sure how this works, so let me know how I'm supposed to respond to the thread it's been re-activated.

New Pardon Thread (asking what happened to the old thread):
xXFlamoXx Pardon wasn't approved or denied, pardon req disappeared

Old Pardon Thread (contains all the evidence, description of events, and the questions you asked):
Pardon Appeal (Screenshots, Well Written)

Your new account has been banned due to ban evading, you can reply to this thread by creating a new thread as a guest. Make sure to link to your old pardon thread in your new thread. I'm still awaiting a response from you on this question.

FlamoAppeal · Mar 19, 2018

"Last dispute on OSBot: https://osbot.org/forum/topic/118631-dispute-against-dannyflamo/

Just to confirm; instead of refunding @Snowbunnies you both agreed on you getting his script to work, which it does now and still does?"

Correct, the last time I spoke with snowbunnies his script was fully functional.

Wortel · Mar 20, 2018

Is there any way you can prove what you're saying here? Please provide us with screenshots of the last chats you've had with him.

FlamoAppeal · Mar 20, 2018

These are the last messages I sent to SnowBunnies: https://i.gyazo.com/9350db9e3c8f905ad87051a3e50cbc12.png

Tried to check up on him a few times but he never responded. Idk if my script still runs properly, but I know it was in working order when I sent him the most updated copy of the script

FlamoAppeal · Mar 20, 2018

Okay, I want you to address something before we move forward. If somebody's "friend" creates a dispute for them, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Not unless one of your moderators has actually consulted with the REAL victim and confirmed that the scam actually took place. I should not be banned right now. The behaviour of the moderators here at Sythe absolutely unprofessional and reprehensible. As a programmer, I tend to look at issues from a logical perspective. So when I look at the way this dispute was handled, I can't help but feel completely disgusted. Everything from start to finish was just wrong. I seriously expect more from the moderators at the biggest runescape black market site on the web.

My Questions:
1. What's your opinion on this?
2. In your opinion, was my ban justified?
3. Should I have been given the opportunity to respond to the dispute thread before a ban was issued? 4. How do you or any of the other moderators know that the evidence you've been provided with hasn't been doctored/altered in any way before you issue your bans? I have the sneaking suspicion that you don't.
5. Why doesn't the accused member of a dispute receive the opportunity to provide moderators with evidence and an explanation? Why rush to ban the member immediately without actually resolving the issue. That's how my dispute was handled and it was in every aspect handled incorrectly.

My response:
The script was working when I delivered it to him. At first he was given version 0.01 which is a fully functional version of the script. Later on, he requested that I fix and remove old features and add new ones. You're asking me for evidence of that, I'm saying that evidence is irrelevant. The script was in working order, as you can plainly see in the screenshot and gif below:
https://i.imgur.com/k4H0bEC.png
Screen capture - 39c700f03f98787ee49bb9e78df8241d - Gyazo

I delivered a fully functional script to him, and the evidence supporting that claim is clear.

On top of delivering his script to his exact specification, I added and removed features for free because it was the courteous thing to do. I had no obligation to waste an extra minute on that script after I delivered version 0.01 and yet I did. Also, it couldn't be any clearer that my customer was satisfied with the delivered product, look at his reaction after running the script for the first time.

He was so happy that he contacted one of your moderators and attempted to get me unbanned from Sythe himself. That alone should be enough evidence. I can't understand why that isn't good enough for you.

Wortel · Mar 20, 2018

If you believe your ban was unwarranted you should've disputed your ban instead of pardoning immediately. You could've disputed the ban until a limit of 30 days after the ban was issued. If you dislike the way I'm handling your pardon I'll gladly leave this for the other moderators. I can confirm I'm not a native English speaker so I'll be a bit more difficult to deal with. Besides that I'm also very straight to the point and no doubt there are better candidates in the staff team to deal with disputes. The difference however is; they don't deal with it, I do.

So it's up to you basically; do you wish me to handle this one or do you want another staff member to look at it? Menawhile I'm asking a user who's been around when you were banned etc for some more information regarding this.

Keep in mind this is the pardon section. You should be remorseful here and admitting to your mistakes, so while there's no doubt that we as a staff team have our defects (which you're free to report to the Sythe admins) all the focus is on you here, so hopefully you do not mind me being thorough.

xXFlamoXx Appeal · Mar 20, 2018

"do you wish me to handle this one or do you want another staff member to look at it?"
Not at all, I just want you to look at and understand the evidence that I've provided you with. If you can't do that, then maybe another moderator with a richer linguistic/logical background should be handling the dispute. I really appreciate the effort you've put into this pardon, but it just seems like you're ignoring the facts. The fact is that the script was delivered and the customer was happy. So happy that he actually contacted a moderator and asked for an unban. The screenshots I gave you earlier should confirm this. See below:

Screenshot:
Imgur

Quote #1:
"Lol the looter is so advanced
like this is the future
It beats the other competitor bots,"

This quote confirms that customer was happy with the script in it's original state.

Quote #2:
"I FORGOT"
"You still need to get unbanned on sythe"
"I sent the mod a message to lift the ban"

This is undeniable proof that he was satisfied with the delivered product. Look at his response, he was over the moon after he witnessed the script doing exactly what he wanted it to do. I even added the silly antiban methods that he personally requested. So yes, I delivered a working script, the screenshots I've provided you with will confirm this.

There was an issue with picking up bones/raw beef, but the script was still fully functional. Obviously, a cowhide looting script wouldn't break if it accidentally collected a couple of bones/raw beef. This is proof that the script was fully functional when I delivered it to him.

xXFlamoXx Appeal · Mar 20, 2018

I wasn't made aware that disputing my ban was possible until I read your response 30 minutes ago. If I had known this prior to writing the script, my customer and I would have reversed my ban in the first week. I do all my scripting related business through OSBot and TRiBot so I don't know how things are done here at Sythe. I want you to understand that I did not scam this user. I cannot make it any clearer that I delivered his script. That's what we're discussing here.

If I could go back any further in our skype conversation history to prove that my customer confirmed that he was okay with the delay in script delivery, I would do it:
Imgur GIF

The reason I am banned right now is because I did not know I could contest disputes to get unbanned. At the time that I received my ban, my Sythe account was blocked from accessing the forums and I couldn't log out. How was I supposed to know what was going on? Look at this:
Imgur GIF

We could've reversed the ban if we had known that a dispute thread was necessary. The fact that you're still asking for evidence even after my customer has explicitly stated that he would like to get me unbanned is mind blowing.

Wortel · Mar 21, 2018

Your pardon will now go into voting. This will take atleast a week, but might take a bit more in some cases.
Meanwhile, feel free to Request a DNT though if you do, make sure you read this sticky first.
When your pardon is finished, your name will be shown in this thread as either accepted or denied.
Until then, please remain patient, thank you.

Flamo Appeal · Mar 22, 2018

Thank you for all the help. Sorry if I came across as disrespectful, it's just an extremely frustrating situation for me.

Also, if - for whatever reason - I find myself in a position where I cannot deliver a script or respond to a customer, and they create a scam report as a result of that, I'll be sure to respond to the dispute in an orderly and respectful manner. I usually go to great lengths to resolve issues with my customer directly, but if the report is made before I get the opportunity to do that, I'll try to take on a more professional and respectful attitude while working things out with the Sythe moderators in the future. I do plan on continuing to be a part of the runescape community. I'm always improving as a developer and over the years I've found many new ways to meet my customer's scripting needs. So I will be an active member of the community in the years to come. Looking forward to your responses

Pardon Appeal (Screenshots, Well Written)

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