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In regards to FireZ's ban

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By the way, these are the bans I issued this weekend for scamming. If you look through the links, most of them didn't ever have a PM sent.

70ownage - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?p=8593740
slamx49 - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1100158
.hostile - http://ww2.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1099694
c.luke - http://ww2.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1099130
pwnted - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1094991
ar ess bot - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1095223
robitobi - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1095334
st4rt - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1096689
nwetz921 - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1094002
keydee2 - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1097272
randoush - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1097966
taylor-rs2 - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1097992
logobuico - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1094940
nexthell911 - http://ww2.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1099052
andrewjconners - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1100548
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Should I just unban them all?


Furthermore, why is everybody so banraged about this? It's absurd.
 
Hasn't Firez went through enough tbh? I know I've only been here a couple of months, but from what I've seen he's a decent trustworthy guy, and i think its unfair that he should have to pay billions back because of some hacker. But hey, rules are rules.
 
.................................................

As I told him, because of his inability to secure his own account, people had hundreds of dollars stolen from them. You really think it's unfair that he doesn't have to right that wrong?

But, yeah, I guess you just answered my question about why everyone is up in arms in this banrage: it's because none of you were the ones who had hundreds of dollars stolen from them, and you're all apparently incapable of understanding what it's like to lose your entire savings. That's a lot of money to most people here on Sythe.


By the way, FireZ was banned almost a month after that particular scam report was closed. I wasn't even the one who banned FireZ; I was giving him the option of staying on FireZ 2 because it has a market ban anyway. After him doing nothing about it for almost a month, I finally brought it to a global's attention and let the decision to ban rest on the global, since it is a little unorthodox of a report. I expected that FireZ would simply have the decency to pay back somebody who was hurt by his negligence.
 
I never said people who's msn's get hacked, shouldn't have to pay back what was scammed on it.
I believe they should.


My whole thing was, how do we even know that the hacker on jt's msn account, actually got the gp from Rstrader?

This image, for example
"Youre not getting shit all gp from me"
And the other parts,it seems he knew it was a hacker on the account.
img0277e.jpg



Kero, I am not doubting your skills as a mod or anything, or anyones for that matter.
To me, it just seems unfair to ban over that.


I am not raged over this, it just popped into my head and thought I'd ask about it.


If the decision in final, then so be it. Nothing I can do about it.
I was just being curious.
 
That picture was obviously after rstrader got back from whatever he had to leave to do. The announcement after JT's hack came up about two hours after he was actually hacked.
 
Then why is it still on his phone?
If he came back from whatever he had to due, I'm pretty sure he would have had come back on a pc, ya? To type and call him a hacker etc.

That pic was at 12:32 on his msn logs(AM)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8011/img0274y.jpg
Pic is the last they talked for a good 45min - 1hr 15min

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/281/img0275et.jpg
was next, at 12:25(AM)

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6310/img0267qc.jpg
Asking if jt(currently the hacker) would be on in 2hours to trade. Time is 23;00 basically 11pm.

So he wasn't back from whatever he had to do

IDK
 
Kerokero, I have read everything here and I just want to let you know that your thought process and what you have said here is right on.

You have my full support. keep it up bud.
 
KerokeroCola said:
The MSN that was being traded with was FireZ's MSN literally his entire career at Sythe. There was no reason to suspect it was hacked at that point. The PM rule has always been a bit of shit in my opinion because it's unofficial and new or inexperienced members won't ever think of doing it. If the MSN is in your profile, your signature, all of your threads, then why the hell would you ever suspect foul play? Keep in mind this was BEFORE the announcement was made, as far as I can tell.

As to how do we know the amount? We don't, but the hacker himself even said the amount after he had logged in. You think he lied about it to the hacker, and then the hacker lied about it back to him, just so that he can skim another 400m off of FireZ? Really? :huh:


Basically, you all are being so skeptical that only the most idiotic of all scammers will ever get banned by you. The rule is, has always been, and will always be that the trade needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. To me, it seems very reasonable to expect that this trade happened. Either rstrader is incredibly crafty... or he is incredibly stupid and had $400 stolen from him. I'm inclined to believe he is incredibly stupid.

Why do you all keep forgetting that the person most at fault here is FireZ for letting his MSN get hacked?

By all means, if you want me to prove scams happened beyond a shadow of a doubt, I can raise the standard a bit. Just expect to see a helluva lot more scammers on Sythe.
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Kero, I like you. I think you have great intentions for this community and have a lot to bring to the table.

However, I think both you and I know that it isn't entirely JT's fault for "letting his MSN get hacked", as you put it. The means by which he was hacked weren't revealed, to my knowledge. I'm going to make the assumption that the e-mail provider's recovery system was exploited using FireZ personal information. So tell me, do you honestly believe that someone backtracking JT's background and using it to recover his MSN is avoidable? If someone wants something bad enough, they'll get it. It's happened countless times (See: R2Pleasent, Plznate, Hahanerd, etc.) and it could just as easily happen to you.

You seem to think your account is secured, but honestly this thread alone provides enough information to begin the process of taking over your MSN. http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1018169

Is FireZ really at fault here?
 
Protocol and history says yes, he is at fault. What do I personally think? JT got targeted, and any one of us on staff could have been targeted. It seems the hacker was determined and particularly skillful, and it probably would have happened unless JT switched to hushmail. Hushmail passwords cannot be recovered at all, and that's the only reason most people use them.

That being said, protocol trumps what I have to think all day, every day. If we ease up on the hacking obligation protocol, then nobody would be obligated to secure their accounts. If my MSN does get hacked one day, then I'll have to pay up just like everyone else does.
 
FloydZeppelin said:
Kero, I like you. I think you have great intentions for this community and have a lot to bring to the table.

However, I think both you and I know that it isn't entirely JT's fault for "letting his MSN get hacked", as you put it. The means by which he was hacked weren't revealed, to my knowledge. I'm going to make the assumption that the e-mail provider's recovery system was exploited using FireZ personal information. So tell me, do you honestly believe that someone backtracking JT's background and using it to recover his MSN is avoidable? If someone wants something bad enough, they'll get it. It's happened countless times (See: R2Pleasent, Plznate, Hahanerd, etc.) and it could just as easily happen to you.

You seem to think your account is secured, but honestly this thread alone provides enough information to begin the process of taking over your MSN. http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1018169

Is FireZ really at fault here?
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They all had to pay back somebody as well. Nobody forced FireZ to use MSN to do his trades, but he did anyways. He is at fault for using that system & he is at fault for even using MSN in the beginning. Can't get hacked if you don't use it. His MSN was the one that was used to scam. Nobody is at fault other than FireZ. Also, in my opinion, he shouldn't have to pay back 400m, he should have to pay back cash of what the average gp was going for back then. Considering the market dropped. It isn't the victim's fault that a global mod/OMM's msn was hacked. I agree with Kero on the fact that it's silly to HAVE to get a PM from somebody that has their MSN literally EVERY WHERE.
 
So you're going to tell me that it's JT's fault for not jumping on the bandwagon and getting a Hushmail account (Which makes trading safer, and is also encouraged), but the fact that Rstrader didn't get a verification PM from FireZ (Which also makes trading safer, and is also encouraged) shouldn't even be slightly considered? If you ask me, I think both sides of this whole ordeal weigh each other out and the compensation should remain at $0. It doesn't matter whether or not his MSN is plastered everywhere, it's quite evident that hackings have been taking place rampantly lately.

Yes, FireZ should have switched to a more secure provider.

But Rstrader, being a long-standing and somewhat active member, should have known to take precautions.

Had it have been an actual new user to the site, then I could understand their lack of knowledge. But we're talking about someone who has been here for months, has done a considerable amount of trades, and has generally been involved in the market for the majority of his time here.
 
FloydZeppelin said:
So you're going to tell me that it's JT's fault for not jumping on the bandwagon and getting a Hushmail account (Which makes trading safer, and is also encouraged), but the fact that Rstrader didn't get a verification PM from FireZ (Which also makes trading safer, and is also encouraged) shouldn't even be slightly considered? If you ask me, I think both sides of this whole ordeal weigh each other out and the compensation should remain at $0. It doesn't matter whether or not his MSN is plastered everywhere, it's quite evident that hackings have been taking place rampantly lately.

Yes, FireZ should have switched to a more secure provider.

But Rstrader, being a long-standing and somewhat active member, should have known to take precautions.

Had it have been an actual new user to the site, then I could understand their lack of knowledge. But we're talking about someone who has been here for months, has done a considerable amount of trades, and has generally been involved in the market for the majority of his time here.
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Since he isn't a new member, he should be able to be scammed without compensation from a global's MSN. Makes loads of sense.
 
Again, if you guys want me to be absurdly strict on the PM rule, refer to this post. I'd be fine with denying 90% more scam reports, but it all really doesn't matter to me because I refuse to trade most people anyway.
 
punkerpunk13 said:
Since he isn't a new member, he should be able to be scammed without compensation from a global's MSN. Makes loads of sense.
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You're absolutely missing the point.

Due to the circumstances with both parties, I don't believe that full compensation is in order.

Requesting a PM is different when you're dealing with 'bob128387' as oppose to a high-profiled member such as FireZ. It's a general protocol that you request a PM from those sort of people, as is having a 'hushmail' account. Both aren't official rules, but they are both widely encouraged.

FireZ didn't get a hushmail, which is in no way against the rules
Rstrader didn't request a PM, not against the rules.

I'll say it once again, the evidence was vague and would normally be denied (I'm not saying that rstrader wasn't scammed, but regardless the evidence provided holds no water). What is so special about this case that it has been played on for this long?
 
FloydZeppelin said:
You're absolutely missing the point.

Due to the circumstances with both parties, I don't believe that full compensation is in order.

Requesting a PM is different when you're dealing with 'bob128387' as oppose to a high-profiled member such as FireZ. It's a general protocol that you request a PM from those sort of people, as is having a 'hushmail' account. Both aren't official rules, but they are both widely encouraged.

FireZ didn't get a hushmail, which is in no way against the rules
Rstrader didn't request a PM, not against the rules.

I'll say it once again, the evidence was vague and would normally be denied (I'm not saying that rstrader wasn't scammed, but regardless the evidence provided holds no water). What is so special about this case that it has been played on for this long?
Click to expand...

So all I have to do is scam for a while, tell a mod my MSN was hacked, wait on an announcement and get away with it? Just because nobody got a PM? You realize that's just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard? Lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, if this isn't what your saying. This being the fact that as long as you don't get a PM from somebody trusted & they claim their MSN is hacked, you get nothing.
 
This is the last I'm going to post because there's nothing more to say in this matter. I'm only posting because you guys apparently feel that there was injustice. I'm trying to assure you that there is no injustice. When FireZ comes back and gets his donor rank bank (even FireZ 2 has access to Donor Lounge), I'm sure he will back me up.

FireZ's account was targeted, hacked, and was ultimately used for scamming. The rules say he has to pay people back if any scams are proven to have happened. It's my job to look through evidence and right any wrongs from the trade. I saw a scam report showing rstrader speaking with a MSN that had been FireZ's MSN since his first days on Sythe. Yes, there was no PM, but it is absolutely unreasonably to expect rstrader to get a PM because (1) he was on a goddamn cell phone, and (2) FireZ had used that MSN literally forever.

There is an unofficial policy about "no PM, no compensation," but that rule is simply what we refer to when it is obvious somebody is targeting and framing a mod or an OMM. If you spend as much time in Report a Scammer as I do, you'll be able to smell these posts within ten seconds of reading the report. The report in question has never smelled like a frame to me, nor has it to probably to any other mod. I have equal power to all sectionals and inferior power to any global and administrator. That means literally any other staff member is allowed to change the verdict.
 
This is the last I'm going to post because there's nothing more to say in this matter. I'm only posting because you guys apparently feel that there was injustice. I'm trying to assure you that there is no injustice. When FireZ comes back and gets his donor rank bank (even FireZ 2 has access to Donor Lounge), I'm sure he will back me up.

FireZ's account was targeted, hacked, and was ultimately used for scamming. The rules say he has to pay people back if any scams are proven to have happened. It's my job to look through evidence and right any wrongs from the trade. I saw a scam report showing rstrader speaking with a MSN that had been FireZ's MSN since his first days on Sythe. Yes, there was no PM, but it is absolutely unreasonably to expect rstrader to get a PM because (1) he was on a goddamn cell phone, and (2) FireZ had used that MSN literally forever.

There is an unofficial policy about "no PM, no compensation," but that rule is simply what we refer to when it is obvious somebody is targeting and framing a mod or an OMM. If you spend as much time in Report a Scammer as I do, you'll be able to smell these posts within ten seconds of reading the report. The report in question has never smelled like a frame to me, nor has it to probably to any other mod. I have equal power to all sectionals and inferior power to any global and administrator. That means literally any other staff member is allowed to change the verdict.
 
R2pleasent had to pay back when his msn was hacked, don't see why FireZ shouldn't, I do however think that with all the msn's being hacked lately that it should be mandatory to ask for a pm before trading, but then again, such rule can be abused.
 
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