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Obama's Speech on Education

R33l2r3al said:
How exactly did you miss the propoganda? It was quite clear.

1. Guilt trips - "If you give up in school you give up on your country"
2. "You're all the same...yada yada yada...You need to be just like everyone else and do good in school" - Clearly a stepping stone towards socialism/communism
3. He referenced revolutionary ideas a number of times, comparing our generation to those of the revolutionaries in American history. That being said, the underlying message could be interpreted as him wanting a social "revolution" or change, which is a fundamental principle among Democrats.
4. This speech had been reworked a number of times already, with some of the "controversial" stuff being edited out.

All that being said, it is evident that the media is ultimately responsible for all this hoopla. If you were watching msnbc like myself, you would have heard that Republicans had not made an official statement about the speech yet and were waiting until afterward. So if we rule out Republicans for the cause, we can assume the media is at fault here.
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True. It did seem to glorify normality and discourage taking chances. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "socialist propaganda", but I can't say I'm inspired by someone telling me to be normal. Still, normal is the best most people can do, and he was trying to communicate with people who were too idealist or lazy to realize the importance of an education.
 
Tyro said:
Read.

He said...
  1. athletics isn't a valid career choice for most
  2. we should idolize MJ
This message is aimed toward kids who are still in elementary school and makes no sense.
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Not idolize MJ per se, but idolize his glowing example of trying after failure. I agree, he could have used a better example. The speech was clearly not telling the kids to try to be star athletes.
 
R33l2r3al said:
1. Guilt trips - "If you give up in school you give up on your country
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Without guilt, what else is there?
2. "You're all the same...yada yada yada...You need to be just like everyone else and do good in school" - Clearly a stepping stone towards socialism/communism
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Isn't that true also? Everyone's equal? Is it better to tell the truth or not tell them that and keep them wondering? Especially people at a young age with their kids telling them they are superior.
3. He referenced revolutionary ideas a number of times, comparing our generation to those of the revolutionaries in American history. That being said, the underlying message could be interpreted as him wanting a social "revolution" or change, which is a fundamental principle among Democrats.
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Didn't watch the video, i'll watch it later and respond to this.
4. This speech had been reworked a number of times already, with some of the "controversial" stuff being edited out.
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Ok? Saying what he wants first, then doing editing, is there something wrong with that?


I've answered your discussion questions in your AP Government and Politics class. Tell me if you need anymore help:cool:
 
Hammerburst said:
Name one thing Obama has done Besides take trips,Speak too other world-leaders. (Must benefit EVERYONE).
Seriously,This why I can't stand ignorant people via you, Just because someone thinks Obama is a bad President that makes them Racist?
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Name one thing ANY politician has done that benefits absolutely everyone.
You can't. It's impossible.
 
TJ said:
They have spent billions and trillions of dollars on nonsense junk, and you are worried about this speech?
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No. The mismanagement of previous US governments is responsible for your the wastage of your tax dollars. The US is deep in debt, which means that your tax money is spent before the government even has it.
 
The Riddler_ said:
Without guilt, what else is there?
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Why would a President have to guilt students, more specifically young students whose minds can be warped, into going to school. He should be promoting positive reasons that benefit them and everyone else from going to school. (I realize that's a normative statement and probably not the best for my argument). That being said, the ideas of "You should do what everyone else is doing for the betterment of society, but you are all equal and should get the same reward" is quite literally socialist if not communist.

Isn't that true also? Everyone's equal? Is it better to tell the truth or not tell them that and keep them wondering? Especially people at a young age with their kids telling them they are superior.
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No one is equal. You provide me an example of when EVERYONE is equal.

Ok? Saying what he wants first, then doing editing, is there something wrong with that?
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The 4th statement was merely for the op of this thread. He said he didn't understand why it was so controversial, and the reason was because,

A) The media likes to make big deals out of everything
B) There was SOME controversial stuff in it originally, but it had been edited out.
 
R33l2r3al said:
Why would a President have to guilt students, more specifically young students whose minds can be warped, into going to school. He should be promoting positive reasons that benefit them and everyone else from going to school. (I realize that's a normative statement and probably not the best for my argument). That being said, the ideas of "You should do what everyone else is doing for the betterment of society, but you are all equal and should get the same reward" is quite literally socialist if not communist.
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Just like education is nothing but the biggest example of forced conformism.
No one is equal. You provide me an example of when EVERYONE is equal.
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Everyone should be treated equal if you want me to be specific.
A) The media likes to make big deals out of everything
B) There was SOME controversial stuff in it originally, but it had been edited out.
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Not disagreeing here.
 
Just like education is nothing but the biggest example of forced conformism.
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Perhaps it is, but at the same time, you are allotted the ability to take classes more or less rigorous based on your own liking, which isn't complete conformism.

Everyone should be treated equal if you want me to be specific.
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Another normative statement (I realize I used one myself), but saying someone should do something is no more helpful that trying to be a policy adviser for someone that doesn't care for your opinion. I would agree in a lot of sense that equal rights should be given to people, but not that everyone should be completely equal. That is communism.
 
R33l2r3al said:
Perhaps it is, but at the same time, you are allotted the ability to take classes more or less rigorous based on your own liking, which isn't complete conformism.
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But you MUST take math, english, science, and history. The speed of the class is a small variable.
Another normative statement (I realize I used one myself), but saying someone should do something is no more helpful that trying to be a policy adviser for someone that doesn't care for your opinion. I would agree in a lot of sense that equal rights should be given to people, but not that everyone should be completely equal. That is communism.
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Teaching superiority to children is bad.
 
But you MUST take math, english, science, and history. The speed of the class is a small variable.
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These are essential skills to life in the real world. I hardly see how it is wrong to make them learn these skills. Unless they wish to live a life that has no merit in today's society, they need that fundamental education.

Teaching superiority to children is bad.
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Agree to disagree. Superiority can be seen in almost any establishment. It is a fact of our society.
 
R33l2r3al said:
These are essential skills to life in the real world. I hardly see how it is wrong to make them learn these skills. Unless they wish to live a life that has no merit in today's society, they need that fundamental education.
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I'm pretty sure more than half the students won't remember the things they do in high school unless they further they're education outside of school where it is a personal reason.
Agree to disagree. Superiority can be seen in almost any establishment. It is a fact of our society.
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Telling a kid your better than that kid over there because his parents lost their jobs?
 
The Riddler_ said:
I'm pretty sure more than half the students won't remember the things they do in high school unless they further they're education outside of school where it is a personal reason.
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True you may forget things, but the thing is that it's a foundation. If you don't go to high school, you are not prepared for college. So you can't go. And then what? Your life sucks. Even if you'll never use the things you learn in school, the learning process (such as in math) helps you think more logically and systematically even if the material is irrelevant to your career. I don't think government or english classes are at all useless, either.
 
my school wouldnt let us hear the speech because they said it was inaproppriate and dumb
 
Straggler said:
True you may forget things, but the thing is that it's a foundation. If you don't go to high school, you are not prepared for college. So you can't go. And then what? Your life sucks. Even if you'll never use the things you learn in school, the learning process (such as in math) helps you think more logically and systematically even if the material is irrelevant to your career. I don't think government or english classes are at all useless, either.
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High school is a foundation, but not a needed foundation. Not many people will become doctors, scientists, or pharmacists. So I doubt they'd need to take chemistry. Anything above normal math isn't needed for the masses. Only needed for the people who actually will be in that field.

I didn't call the useless, I just said it's forced conformism.
 
We might have watched it in Science, but we didn't have a TV so we couldn't watch it.

-Watches it-

It seems more like a motivational speech then an informational one (and there were some thing he said that were incorrect [i.e. AIDs is a virus]), but I really don't see what's so controversial about it...
 
Disregarding political party stance, I love listening to him speak. There is absolutely no reason for schools to not let their kids watch this. I'm currently a freshman in college so I had to watch this online, but it was still well worth watching.

Some people think that just because Obama is a democrat that this speech would change the minds of young Americans (politically), completely wrong. I loved it, thanks for bringing this up :)
 
Jimmy5410 said:
We might have watched it in Science, but we didn't have a TV so we couldn't watch it.

-Watches it-

It seems more like a motivational speech then an informational one (and there were some thing he said that were incorrect [i.e. AIDs is a virus]), but I really don't see what's so controversial about it...
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AIDS is a virus. Well, HIV technically is the thing that you contract, but AIDS is the disease. They go together in any case.
 
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