Abortion

[The Riddler_]

No, I am saying that I would rather stay alive than die. Abortion doesn't cause a conscious mind to die, though. Abortion prevents a conscious mind from ever existing.

For most of the people who keep the baby, it's better to have then lose, rather than never have at all.

It's their choice until a certain point, then, the life has already started, and you can't stop it from existing once it has already started living.

 

[Shredderbeam]

For most of the people who keep the baby, it's better to have then lose, rather than never have at all.

Why is it better to keep a non-conscious fetus than to lose it?

It's their choice until a certain point, then, the life has already started, and you can't stop it from existing once it has already started living.

Up to a certain point, the fetus is just a clump of cells that can feel little to no pain, is not conscious, and cannot hold preferences. Why is it wrong to end that life?

 

[cubfan57]

In what week are abortions typically done? Can the baby survive if it is delivered?

 

[The Riddler_]

Up to a certain point, the fetus is just a clump of cells that can feel little to no pain, is not conscious, and cannot hold preferences. Why is it wrong to end that life?

Yes, yes, we've been through this numerous times, all I want to find out, is when you think the point of life of the fetus is reached and is unlawful to abort at that moment on.

That's the only answer I'm after in this thread, everything that has been said in the past 10 or so pages has been a repeat or not needed information.

 

[hashslinger]

I think he believes when it is born. Feel free to prove me wrong shredder. Oh and by the way you locked a humorous thread that was called "my vouches" before you actualy read it. Dont need to unlock it though.

 

[d4rkk0]

i believe its rong for many reasons including in my opinion its just like murdering.. they never get to live AGEN

 

[Swan]

i believe its rong for many reasons including in my opinion its just like murdering.. they never get to live AGEN

1) Explain yourself, rationally. Otherwise get out.
2) Learn to spell.

 

[Shredderbeam]

In what week are abortions typically done? Can the baby survive if it is delivered?

They are usually around the 8th week, at which point the baby cannot survive.

Yes, yes, we've been through this numerous times, all I want to find out, is when you think the point of life of the fetus is reached and is unlawful to abort at that moment on.

That's the only answer I'm after in this thread, everything that has been said in the past 10 or so pages has been a repeat or not needed information.

Well it's alive from the moment of conception, but I am concerned with when it can be said that the fetus has rights.

I would argue that it does not suddenly gain rights, as the change from embryo to child is a gradual one. Its rights slowly grow as its ability to feel pain and its consciousness grow, coming to a peak somewhere around the age of three.

I think he believes when it is born. Feel free to prove me wrong shredder. Oh and by the way you locked a humorous thread that was called "my vouches" before you actualy read it. Dont need to unlock it though.

I locked no thread. D:

 

[hashslinger]

So a newborn baby that is 2 days old can be killed because it has no rights?

 

[Shredderbeam]

So a newborn baby that is 2 days old can be killed because it has no rights?

A newborn baby has rights, they're just not as significant as a fully grown person's rights.

I can't think of many realistic situations in which killing a baby would be morally justified.

 

[hashslinger]

A newborn baby has rights, they're just not as significant as a fully grown person's rights.

I can't think of many realistic situations in which killing a baby would be morally justified.

I dont understand how an 8 inch transfer from the birth canal makes it any less human.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I dont understand how an 8 inch transfer from the birth canal makes it any less human.

It doesn't. A baby just before birth is, for all intents and purposes, identical to a baby after birth. It would be wrong to kill either of them without cause.

 

[hashslinger]

It doesn't. A baby just before birth is, for all intents and purposes, identical to a baby after birth. It would be wrong to kill either of them without cause.

Do you support late term abortion?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Do you support late term abortion?

Here I hesitate, because it's extremely difficult to determine whose interests take precedence. It really depends on what sort of mental presence the fetus has, and the circumstances surrounding the mother's pregnancy.

 

[hashslinger]

It shouldn't make a difference what the mothers situation is. It should be all about the baby.

 

[DropKick Murphys]

It doesn't. A baby just before birth is, for all intents and purposes, identical to a baby after birth. It would be wrong to kill either of them without cause.

Why can't the mother remove something from her body regardless of whether it has rights? I'm not trying to debate whether a fetus does/should have rights, I just believe the mother has a right to take something from her body at any time with no reason needed.

 

[Shredderbeam]

It shouldn't make a difference what the mothers situation is. It should be all about the baby.

I would argue that the mother's situation can have an impact. If, say, she was two weeks pregnant, and was told by a doctor that she would definitely die in the pregnancy, then would an abortion at that point really be that bad? The fetus would not be conscious, nor able to feel pain of any sort.

Why can't the mother remove something from her body regardless of whether it has rights? I'm not trying to debate whether a fetus does/should have rights, I just believe the mother has a right to take something from her body at any time with no reason needed.

I would think that she could remove it, just not with an abortion. If she was eight months pregnant, presumably there would be an option for removing the baby that would not kill it/cause it considerable distress.

 

[hashslinger]

I would argue that the mother's situation can have an impact. If, say, she was two weeks pregnant, and was told by a doctor that she would definitely die in the pregnancy, then would an abortion at that point really be that bad? The fetus would not be conscious, nor able to feel pain of any sort.

I thought you meant like if the girl was twelve. What makes a woman's life any more valuable than a baby? The woman got to live life. The baby is just starting.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I thought you meant like if the girl was twelve. What makes a woman's life any more valuable than a baby? The woman got to live life. The baby is just starting.

The baby hasn't really started to "live life" in the sense that we consider it. It won't even be fully conscious until around one or two years of age, and won't begin to form long term memories until the age of three. At the time of the abortion, what is the fetus? What would it compare to, were its DNA not that of a human? If it were an abortion at six weeks, the fetus would be, literally, comparable to a worm in terms of consciousness and capacity to feel pain. Why would such a life be worth less than an adult female who is fully conscious, and very capable of feeling pain?

 

[cubfan57]

How do you guys feel about FOCA? FOCA would create a fundamental right to abortion.
I personally think this is absurd, and can't see how this would protect/empower women, which it is meant to do.

Also, I read an article about a woman that went in to get an abortion, then gave birth while she was waiting. The baby was then taken to a room and set to die. I am trying to find an article about this, and will post when I do.