Guantanamo Bay - Being shut down

[The Fat Controller]

Yes, absolutely.

I mean Im sure before we torture the terrorists we try to reason with them, and if that doesn't work we resort to torture. The same would apply with an American, if they don't cooperate with reason, torture might be the only option.

Ah I see, well at least you're consistent. You condone criminal savagery no matter who does it. You think it's sensible to give government the power to kidnap people and take them places where it's alright to torture them.

 

[FlubbyWubs]

Ah I see, well at least you're consistent. You condone criminal savagery no matter who does it. You think it's sensible to give government the power to kidnap people and take them places where it's alright to torture them.

If a terrorist comes into the United States, walks into a hospital and starts gunning down innocent people, I think the Government has the right to "kidnap" that person and bring him to a government facility where he will be interrogated. They would reason with them, until they couldn't reason anymore. After that they would resort to torture.

Would you rather him sit in a jail cell, knowing that he got away with it, with absolutely no punishment? Thinking to himself that America has no balls, and that if he could get away with it why not everyone else?

If that is the case we will have more terrorist attacks then ever before. We are dealing with TERRORISTS here, people who kill millions for no reason other then "we don't like you". I think that torture is plausible in order to prevent genocide.

 

[Isis]

We are dealing with TERRORISTS here, people who kill millions for no reason other then "we don't like you". I think that torture is plausible in order to prevent genocide.

Unless you are a terrorist yourself, you do not know their reasonings, and even if you were, I'm sure they vary, from religion, to their duty.

 

[FlubbyWubs]

Unless you are a terrorist yourself, you do not know their reasonings, and even if you were, I'm sure they vary, from religion, to their duty.

Their reasoning makes no difference. They could be doing it because they just want to kill people, they could be doing it because they hate us, they could be doing it because they are just deranged. They are still killing people for no reason.

If they hate us an alternative was to not talk to us, or have anything to do with us. If they are deranged they could get medical help. There is an answer to everything, and it doesn't involve genocide. If you are backing up that torture is wrong because they have their reasons, then I would say you are a terrorist.

Edit: Are you also saying their "duty" is to kill people?

 

[The Riddler_]

Yes, absolutely.

I mean Im sure before we torture the terrorists we try to reason with them, and if that doesn't work we resort to torture. The same would apply with an American, if they don't cooperate with reason, torture might be the only option.

An eye for an eye leave everyone blind.

If a terrorist comes into the United States, walks into a hospital and starts gunning down innocent people, I think the Government has the right to "kidnap" that person and bring him to a government facility where he will be interrogated. They would reason with them, until they couldn't reason anymore. After that they would resort to torture.

Would you rather him sit in a jail cell, knowing that he got away with it, with absolutely no punishment? Thinking to himself that America has no balls, and that if he could get away with it why not everyone else?

If that is the case we will have more terrorist attacks then ever before. We are dealing with TERRORISTS here, people who kill millions for no reason other then "we don't like you". I think that torture is plausible in order to prevent genocide.

There is no reason to interrogate that person, they can just take him to jail. Torture SHOULDN'T be justified if the person is only under suspicion, and usually, they think torturing will bring it out of a person who knows nothing.

There should be levels for torture in higher and lower suspicion.

Overall, it's against the law, just because your saving lives doesn't mean it isn't. But people still think lives are higher than laws.

 

[Isis]

Their reasoning makes no difference. They could be doing it because they just want to kill people, they could be doing it because they hate us, they could be doing it because they are just deranged. They are still killing people for no reason.

The reasoning does make a difference.
How do you know terrorists do not know any better?

What if I'm grown into a family, who are a part of 'Al-Khaeda', and I am taught to kill people, and told that these people hurt us, and we are getting revenge.

If they hate us an alternative was to not talk to us, or have anything to do with us.

If a bully at school, was making you give him your lunch money everyday, you could choose to just let it happen.

If they are deranged they could get medical help. There is an answer to everything, and it doesn't involve genocide.

Definitely, because if I live in a warzone, with little if any medical treatment to begin my life with, I can just call up a doctor.

The point being, the majority of terrorists reside in a location where they cannot seek help, if they are indeed, deranged.

If you are backing up that torture is wrong because they have their reasons, then I would say you are a terrorist.

I`m saying that we do not know. You or I, are not in a position to be saying why terrorists kill others. Only they know.

Edit: Are you also saying their "duty" is to kill people?

Back to my first response,what if I`m brought up as a child, and told the point of my life is to kill others.

Then I would indeed, entitle it `my duty` or `my purpose`.

 

[The Fat Controller]

If a terrorist comes into the United States, walks into a hospital and starts gunning down innocent people, I think the Government has the right to "kidnap" that person and bring him to a government facility where he will be interrogated. They would reason with them, until they couldn't reason anymore. After that they would resort to torture.

Assuming there is reason to suspect the terrorist is part of some larger group, there is an act-utilitarian argument for torture. Analysis has to be done on a case by case basis, and doesn't provide a reasonable basis for legislation concerning torture. Rule-utilitarianism posits that torture is never justifiable because more often than not, the information can be extracted by other means, or the subject does not have the information.

If that is the case we will have more terrorist attacks then ever before. We are dealing with TERRORISTS here, people who kill millions for no reason other then "we don't like you". I think that torture is plausible in order to prevent genocide.

How many terrorist attacks have there been on the continental US since 9/11? How many could have been stopped by torturing people? ^_^

Would you rather him sit in a jail cell, knowing that he got away with it, with absolutely no punishment? Thinking to himself that America has no balls, and that if he could get away with it why not everyone else?

A lot of the time torture does have a lot to do with broadcasting a message, namely "might makes right".

Torture isn't about punishment, it's a part of interrogation. Terrorists will not be discouraged by torture, typically they'll be far too motivated. You already have the death penalty anyway.

---

The typical divide between "us" and "them" has been raised in this argument anyway. How do you define a terrorist?

 

[iown1234]

Im happy he shut down gitmo, they're a lot worse people in our prisons then most of the people that would be coming here.

 

[FlubbyWubs]

Im happy he shut down gitmo, they're a lot worse people in our prisons then most of the people that would be coming here.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[iown1234]

What the hell are you talking about?

Well if from reading this thread people were complaining about having these terroists in american prisons, when most of the people in our prisons did things worse then half of the people in guantanamo bay.

 

[iown1234]

Well if from reading this thread people were complaining about having these terroists in american prisons, when most of the people in our prisons did things worse then half of the people in guantanamo bay.

Well yes. However bringing them into the country is just raising the risk of something happening.

Edit: Oh, and btw shredd, how are you . Its been a while since you've commented on one of my threads.

QUOTE=Analog;4387973]Honestly, the best topic in SFA at the moment. I do see where your coming from because Guantanamo Bay, for lack of a better word, harbors some of the most notorious terrorists and prisoners know to man. One of the most notorious is KSM, otherwise known as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed; the supposed mastermind of the attacks of 9/11/01. I do disagree with your viewpoints though. They will be moved to a high security prison within the US and will have no access to any unnecessary evils. The most important factor, in the eyes of government officials, is that we can't interrogate them with torturous methods.[/QUOTE]

Thanks
And yeah, I do see where your coming from also. It all depends on where they are put. I mean I guess I didn't really think this threw before I posted. If they are in a maximum security facility then I guess it doesn't really matter. But the thought of having them in our country scares me lol.

 

[FlubbyWubs]

Well if from reading this thread people were complaining about having these terroists in american prisons, when most of the people in our prisons did things worse then half of the people in guantanamo bay.

First of all, how did people in American prisons do things worse then detainees in Guantanamo Bay. People in Guantanamo Bay are terrorists, do we have any terrorists held in America at this time? No, all of them get shipped to Guantanamo Bay. So your theory about America having worse criminals is wrong, because Im sure everyone will agree that Terrorism is the worst crime.

From your quote, you have no idea what Guantanamo Bay is.

P.S. If Im misunderstanding you, which I don't think I am, make your next post more clear because Im really going on my gut here.

 

[iown1234]

i actually do, its a military prison in cuba where they used tortue and other methods on prisoners of war. if you say terrorism is a worse crime then people going into schools and kill mass amount of kids or serial murders, then i would like a reason why.

 

[traul]

put them down like the terrible dogs they are. purposefully killing innocent people is never justified.(and that goes for any country)

 

[TJ]

put them down like the terrible dogs they are. purposefully killing innocent people is never justified.(and that goes for any country)

We should shoot every single person that is actually fighting in the war right now then.

 

[Haunted]

Morons, what if they did not commit a crime, they will tell they did not do it and will continue to get tortured untill they say they did commit it torture is a fucked up way to figure out anything.

 

[TJ]

Morons, what if they did not commit a crime, they will tell they did not do it and will continue to get tortured untill they say they did commit it torture is a fucked up way to figure out anything.

Exactly, like i posted before the truth is different than what you want as the truth.

 

[Jagex Fails]

where all going through economic drop which is using most of our taxes, people are getting fired from there jobs, now terriost are getting fired from there cells, lel pretty lame but they all should be treated in the worse manner, but not torcher

 

[Mega_JonixX]

Torture might be good, but you can't still be sure those people are criminals. Some people that are sitting there are innocent so I hope they will found out a better method to make real terrorists talk.

 

[i noob killer i]

its better now at least tehy will be held in accordance with there human rights .