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US has highest rate of prisoners in the world -- higher than China

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http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/america/23prison.php

International Herald Tribune
U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
By Adam Liptak
Wednesday, April 23, 2008

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College London.

China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. (That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China's extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.)

San Marino, with a population of about 30,000, is at the end of the long list of 218 countries compiled by the center. It has a single prisoner.

The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.

The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.

There is little question that the high incarceration rate here has helped drive down crime, though there is debate about how much.

Criminologists and legal experts here and abroad point to a tangle of factors to explain America's extraordinary incarceration rate: higher levels of violent crime, harsher sentencing laws, a legacy of racial turmoil, a special fervor in combating illegal drugs, the American temperament, and the lack of a social safety net. Even democracy plays a role, as judges — many of whom are elected, another American anomaly — yield to populist demands for tough justice.

Whatever the reason, the gap between American justice and that of the rest of the world is enormous and growing.

It used to be that Europeans came to the United States to study its prison systems. They came away impressed.

"In no country is criminal justice administered with more mildness than in the United States," Alexis de Tocqueville, who toured American penitentiaries in 1831, wrote in "Democracy in America."

No more.

"Far from serving as a model for the world, contemporary America is viewed with horror," James Whitman, a specialist in comparative law at Yale, wrote last year in Social Research. "Certainly there are no European governments sending delegations to learn from us about how to manage prisons."

Prison sentences here have become "vastly harsher than in any other country to which the United States would ordinarily be compared," Michael Tonry, a leading authority on crime policy, wrote in "The Handbook of Crime and Punishment."

Indeed, said Vivien Stern, a research fellow at the prison studies center in London, the American incarceration rate has made the United States "a rogue state, a country that has made a decision not to follow what is a normal Western approach."

The spike in American incarceration rates is quite recent. From 1925 to 1975, the rate remained stable, around 110 people in prison per 100,000 people. It shot up with the movement to get tough on crime in the late 1970s. (These numbers exclude people held in jails, as comprehensive information on prisoners held in state and local jails was not collected until relatively recently.)

The nation's relatively high violent crime rate, partly driven by the much easier availability of guns here, helps explain the number of people in American prisons.

"The assault rate in New York and London is not that much different," said Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy group. "But if you look at the murder rate, particularly with firearms, it's much higher."

Despite the recent decline in the murder rate in the United States, it is still about four times that of many nations in Western Europe.

But that is only a partial explanation. The United States, in fact, has relatively low rates of nonviolent crime. It has lower burglary and robbery rates than Australia, Canada and England.

People who commit nonviolent crimes in the rest of the world are less likely to receive prison time and certainly less likely to receive long sentences. The United States is, for instance, the only advanced country that incarcerates people for minor property crimes like passing bad checks, Whitman wrote.

Efforts to combat illegal drugs play a major role in explaining long prison sentences in the United States as well. In 1980, there were about 40,000 people in American jails and prisons for drug crimes. These days, there are almost 500,000.

Those figures have drawn contempt from European critics. "The U.S. pursues the war on drugs with an ignorant fanaticism," said Stern of King's College.

Many American prosecutors, on the other hand, say that locking up people involved in the drug trade is imperative, as it helps thwart demand for illegal drugs and drives down other kinds of crime. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, for instance, has fought hard to prevent the early release of people in federal prison on crack cocaine offenses, saying that many of them "are among the most serious and violent offenders."

Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists. If lists were compiled based on annual admissions to prison per capita, several European countries would outpace the United States. But American prison stays are much longer, so the total incarceration rate is higher.

Burglars in the United States serve an average of 16 months in prison, according to Mauer, compared with 5 months in Canada and 7 months in England.

Many specialists dismissed race as an important distinguishing factor in the American prison rate. It is true that blacks are much more likely to be imprisoned than other groups in the United States, but that is not a particularly distinctive phenomenon. Minorities in Canada, Britain and Australia are also disproportionately represented in those nation's prisons, and the ratios are similar to or larger than those in the United States.

Some scholars have found that English-speaking nations have higher prison rates.

"Although it is not at all clear what it is about Anglo-Saxon culture that makes predominantly English-speaking countries especially punitive, they are," Tonry wrote last year in "Crime, Punishment and Politics in Comparative Perspective."

"It could be related to economies that are more capitalistic and political cultures that are less social democratic than those of most European countries," Tonry wrote. "Or it could have something to do with the Protestant religions with strong Calvinist overtones that were long influential."

The American character — self-reliant, independent, judgmental — also plays a role.

"America is a comparatively tough place, which puts a strong emphasis on individual responsibility," Whitman of Yale wrote. "That attitude has shown up in the American criminal justice of the last 30 years."

French-speaking countries, by contrast, have "comparatively mild penal policies," Tonry wrote.

Of course, sentencing policies within the United States are not monolithic, and national comparisons can be misleading.

"Minnesota looks more like Sweden than like Texas," said Mauer of the Sentencing Project. (Sweden imprisons about 80 people per 100,000 of population; Minnesota, about 300; and Texas, almost 1,000. Maine has the lowest incarceration rate in the United States, at 273; and Louisiana the highest, at 1,138.)

Whatever the reasons, there is little dispute that America's exceptional incarceration rate has had an impact on crime.

"As one might expect, a good case can be made that fewer Americans are now being victimized" thanks to the tougher crime policies, Paul Cassell, an authority on sentencing and a former federal judge, wrote in The Stanford Law Review.

From 1981 to 1996, according to Justice Department statistics, the risk of punishment rose in the United States and fell in England. The crime rates predictably moved in the opposite directions, falling in the United States and rising in England.

"These figures," Cassell wrote, "should give one pause before too quickly concluding that European sentences are appropriate."

Other commentators were more definitive. "The simple truth is that imprisonment works," wrote Kent Scheidegger and Michael Rushford of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in The Stanford Law and Policy Review. "Locking up criminals for longer periods reduces the level of crime. The benefits of doing so far offset the costs."

There is a counterexample, however, to the north. "Rises and falls in Canada's crime rate have closely paralleled America's for 40 years," Tonry wrote last year. "But its imprisonment rate has remained stable."

Several specialists here and abroad pointed to a surprising explanation for the high incarceration rate in the United States: democracy.

Most state court judges and prosecutors in the United States are elected and are therefore sensitive to a public that is, according to opinion polls, generally in favor of tough crime policies. In the rest of the world, criminal justice professionals tend to be civil servants who are insulated from popular demands for tough sentencing.

Whitman, who has studied Tocqueville's work on American penitentiaries, was asked what accounted for America's booming prison population.

"Unfortunately, a lot of the answer is democracy — just what Tocqueville was talking about," he said. "We have a highly politicized criminal justice system."




US_incarceration_timeline-clean.gif





Federal_Prisoner_Distribution.jpg
 
there is obviously a problem, but is it the crimes they are incarcerated for, or the length of the sentencing?
then again you could say that this is a result of a more effective law, with more people who deserve to be behind bars, actually being in prison.
 
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Alot of the American Boys are Hyped up and have got the wrong things in thier head. I See they are mainly on the coasts(Prisons) which tells me Alot has to do with the East Side West Side. If you could dig up a list of incarcerations under 25, America will top thelist by a Mile. So Sad they go to Iraq and Afghanistan and leave their own country Behind.
 
So that is why they call America 'land of the free'?
But what caused the major increase in prisoners between 1980 and now? Because the article said crime rates dropped.
 
Alot of the American Boys are Hyped up and have got the wrong things in thier head. I See they are mainly on the coasts(Prisons) which tells me Alot has to do with the East Side West Side. If you could dig up a list of incarcerations under 25, America will top thelist by a Mile. So Sad they go to Iraq and Afghanistan and leave their own country Behind.

East side and west side refers to parts of Los Angeles, not the east and west coast.

So that is why they call America 'land of the free'?
But what caused the major increase in prisoners between 1980 and now? Because the article said crime rates dropped.

They've started cracking down and pursuing criminals more.
 
Why is everyone dodging the obvious answer?

The US is a police state.

You're definitely not the first one to come to this conclusion, but I don't agree. The United States doesn't display signs of totalitarianism or general social injustice whilst compared to North Korea / China.

Sure, we do have a large number of prisoners, but we generally have a trail for each sentencing.

I have no doubt in my mind that you would be able to find a few obscene cases, but not many.
 
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[N]ick;4091184 said:
You're definitely not the first one to come to this conclusion, but I don't agree. The United States doesn't display signs of totalitarianism or general social injustice whilst compared to North Korea / China.

Sure, we do have a large number of prisoners, but we generally have a trail for each sentencing.

I have no doubt in my mind that you would be able to find a few obscene cases, but not many.
[YOUTUBE]G0NRMNlSuig[/YOUTUBE]
 
Ok,

1) We are not a Police State? Why do I know this, because you are still alive and able to post stupid ass YouTube videos such as that without being arrested.

2) The US is not that corrupt....

http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=478

3) It is obvious in those videos that they each resisted arrest, except for the last Police Video clip. That cop was a dumbass, but you cannot base your whole opinion on just one stupid person. Just because that guy went loco on camera and the whole world saw it, doesnt mean the whole Police force is bad. Besides, the kid was baiting the cop the whole time with the video camera in the back, I mean, who does that?

4) "Prison sentences here have become "vastly harsher than in any other country to which the United States would ordinarily be compared," Michael Tonry" This I lol'd IRL.

We might not have so packed of prisons if we actually had stricter penalties and actually used the Death Penalty. For example, these drug dealers that get 2-5 years then get out on good behavior/parole? WTF is that shit, they are selling drugs to these kids and other people that increase the rate of crime, divorce, and incarceration of kids. So instead of giving them 5 chances to stop dealing, give them 2. First time they get 6 months of hard labor, 2nd time its life in prison without parole. Maybe then that would show these wanna be drug dealers that the life isnt that great and the risk outweighs the reward..

On to the death penalty, we have it so why dont we all use it? We give these prisoners the death penalty, then they wait 10-20 years even to think about killing them. Enough of the wait, when they get sentenced, send em to the chair. We would lower the jail population significantly if we just grew a pair and used the DP. Using the DP more frequently may also push those who thought about commiting a crime back to the Legal side of life.
 
Ok,
2) The US is not that corrupt....
Lol
Within the last 2 months two city councilors in Boston (where I live) went down for corruption.

We might not have so packed of prisons if we actually had stricter penalties and actually used the Death Penalty. For example, these drug dealers that get 2-5 years then get out on good behavior/parole? WTF is that shit, they are selling drugs to these kids and other people
Why is selling drugs wrong? Why do you think you can tell me what to do with my body? Drug dealers shouldn't be in prison in the first place - selling drugs is not a violent crime.

that increase the rate of crime, divorce, and incarceration of kids.
[citation needed]
Even if that is true, it is because idiots like you tell other people what to do.


So instead of giving them 5 chances to stop dealing, give them 2. First time they get 6 months of hard labor, 2nd time its life in prison without parole. Maybe then that would show these wanna be drug dealers that the life isnt that great and the risk outweighs the reward..
You moron.
Life in a state sanctioned rape house because they sold drugs? All that would do is drastically increase the prison population/


Using the DP more frequently may also push those who thought about commiting a crime back to the Legal side of life.
murderratesDP&NDP.jpg


Facts are overrated, right Triggerfinger?
 
Lol
Within the last 2 months two city councilors in Boston (where I live) went down for corruption.


Why is selling drugs wrong? Why do you think you can tell me what to do with my body? Drug dealers shouldn't be in prison in the first place - selling drugs is not a violent crime.


[citation needed]
Even if that is true, it is because idiots like you tell other people what to do.



You moron.
Life in a state sanctioned rape house because they sold drugs? All that would do is drastically increase the prison population/



murderratesDP&NDP.jpg


Facts are overrated, right Triggerfinger?

1) Just because 2 people in Boston go down for corruption doesnt mean the whole continental United States is corrupt? Besides, thats Boston. Im a New Yorker :) And did you even look at the graph?

2) Selling drugs is wrong because well drugs are illegal, duh. And we arent telling you what you can do to your body, thats why we have tobacco (SP?). The problem with drugs is that when you sell it to someone and they use it, they are putting themselves in a state which they might not know what is going on and/or not care. IE) Meth, Crack, Heroin, etc). When people take drugs they have the possibility to go on crime sprees, killing people, raping, robbing, looting, etc etc. No, selling drugs is not a violent crime. But people who take drugs normally do not have a steady job to pay for their "fix" therefore they resort to crime to pay for it. Therefore that makes you an accessory, if it be to rape or murder or whatever other crime committed.

3) Idiots like me tell other people what to do? Huh?

4) IF the first sentence was a hard labor sentence. You think they would go back to selling drugs if they knew that a life sentence of that awaited them if caught again? I doubt it, this would also sway the younger up and coming population from dealing.

5) As for your little graph, I honestly dont get what its telling me. Other than the states with death penalty have higher murder rates? So, maybe if we started using the DP they would drop, if not oh well. At least the prisons would decrease in population...

So what are you, for the legalization of drugs or something?
 
Ok,

1) We are not a Police State? Why do I know this, because you are still alive and able to post stupid ass YouTube videos such as that without being arrested. Oh, but you are, and you know he lives in US how, lol.

2) The US is not that corrupt....

http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=478 No matter what a site says, look in the pentagon, for proof, you'd see how frickin corrupt they are.

3) It is obvious in those videos that they each resisted arrest, except for the last Police Video clip. That cop was a dumbass, but you cannot base your whole opinion on just one stupid person. Just because that guy went loco on camera and the whole world saw it, doesnt mean the whole Police force is bad. Besides, the kid was baiting the cop the whole time with the video camera in the back, I mean, who does that? Tehy have the right to resist for stupid arrests, hell yeah. Oh, and people who want to prove cops are corrupt.

4) "Prison sentences here have become "vastly harsher than in any other country to which the United States would ordinarily be compared," Michael Tonry" This I lol'd IRL. Btw, canada, doesnt have death sentences, and theyre usually proven guilty before theyre killed or put in jail, unlike US.

We might not have so packed of prisons if we actually had stricter penalties and actually used the Death Penalty. For example, these drug dealers that get 2-5 years then get out on good behavior/parole? WTF is that shit, they are selling drugs to these kids and other people that increase the rate of crime, divorce, and incarceration of kids. So instead of giving them 5 chances to stop dealing, give them 2. First time they get 6 months of hard labor, 2nd time its life in prison without parole. Maybe then that would show these wanna be drug dealers that the life isnt that great and the risk outweighs the reward.. The next step for your so called "Penalties" will be rape then death!, since people are killed for stupid reasons.

On to the death penalty, we have it so why dont we all use it? We give these prisoners the death penalty, then they wait 10-20 years even to think about killing them. Enough of the wait, when they get sentenced, send em to the chair. We would lower the jail population significantly if we just grew a pair and used the DP. Using the DP more frequently may also push those who thought about commiting a crime back to the Legal side of life. And they dont use that for everyone because not everyone deserves it, you ass. Stop trying to defend your country when your obviously proved wrong. -_-
 
1) Just because 2 people in Boston go down for corruption doesnt mean the whole continental United States is corrupt? Besides, thats Boston. Im a New Yorker :) And did you even look at the graph?
Not saying it is, your post just reminded me.
2) Selling drugs is wrong because well drugs are illegal, duh.
That may be the most feeble argument ever. I don't particularly care whether the state thinks drugs should be legal or illegal.
And we arent telling you what you can do to your body,
Yes you are. I have some drug x which I want to use in the my home. Drug x is illegal.
The problem with drugs is that when you sell it to someone and they use it, they are putting themselves in a state which they might not know what is going on and/or not care. IE) Meth, Crack, Heroin, etc). When people take drugs they have the possibility to go on crime sprees, killing people, raping, robbing, looting, etc etc. No, selling drugs is not a violent crime. But people who take drugs normally do not have a steady job to pay for their "fix" therefore they resort to crime to pay for it. Therefore that makes you an accessory, if it be to rape or murder or whatever other crime committed.
Then charge them for the crime they commit.
3) Idiots like me tell other people what to do? Huh?
I meant that drugs are only tied to crime because they are illegal.
5) As for your little graph, I honestly dont get what its telling me. Other than the states with death penalty have higher murder rates? So, maybe if we started using the DP they would drop, if not oh well. At least the prisons would decrease in population...
It shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent.
So what are you, for the legalization of drugs or something?
I'd like the state to get off my back.
 
Ok,

1) We are not a Police State? Why do I know this, because you are still alive and able to post stupid ass YouTube videos such as that without being arrested. Oh, but you are, and you know he lives in US how, lol.

2) The US is not that corrupt....

http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=478 No matter what a site says, look in the pentagon, for proof, you'd see how frickin corrupt they are.

3) It is obvious in those videos that they each resisted arrest, except for the last Police Video clip. That cop was a dumbass, but you cannot base your whole opinion on just one stupid person. Just because that guy went loco on camera and the whole world saw it, doesnt mean the whole Police force is bad. Besides, the kid was baiting the cop the whole time with the video camera in the back, I mean, who does that? Tehy have the right to resist for stupid arrests, hell yeah. Oh, and people who want to prove cops are corrupt.

4) "Prison sentences here have become "vastly harsher than in any other country to which the United States would ordinarily be compared," Michael Tonry" This I lol'd IRL. Btw, canada, doesnt have death sentences, and theyre usually proven guilty before theyre killed or put in jail, unlike US.

We might not have so packed of prisons if we actually had stricter penalties and actually used the Death Penalty. For example, these drug dealers that get 2-5 years then get out on good behavior/parole? WTF is that shit, they are selling drugs to these kids and other people that increase the rate of crime, divorce, and incarceration of kids. So instead of giving them 5 chances to stop dealing, give them 2. First time they get 6 months of hard labor, 2nd time its life in prison without parole. Maybe then that would show these wanna be drug dealers that the life isnt that great and the risk outweighs the reward.. The next step for your so called "Penalties" will be rape then death!, since people are killed for stupid reasons.

On to the death penalty, we have it so why dont we all use it? We give these prisoners the death penalty, then they wait 10-20 years even to think about killing them. Enough of the wait, when they get sentenced, send em to the chair. We would lower the jail population significantly if we just grew a pair and used the DP. Using the DP more frequently may also push those who thought about commiting a crime back to the Legal side of life. And they dont use that for everyone because not everyone deserves it, you ass. Stop trying to defend your country when your obviously proved wrong. -_-

For christ's sake, learn to use the quote button. Then come back and talk to me.

K thnx

Not saying it is, your post just reminded me.

That may be the most feeble argument ever. I don't particularly care whether the state thinks drugs should be legal or illegal.

Yes you are. I have some drug x which I want to use in the my home. Drug x is illegal.

Then charge them for the crime they commit.

I meant that drugs are only tied to crime because they are illegal.

It shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent.

I'd like the state to get off my back.

Well, you asked why drug dealers should be put in jail. I answered, drugs are illegal, selling, possessing drugs are illegal. Last i knew that when you do something deemed illegal, you face a penalty. That is possibly jail time.

Just because you use Drug X in your home doesnt mean it will affect others outside/inside your home. When you do drugs you affect your family, friends, your health etc. You can also, as I mentioned before, alter your normal state and turn into a monster. Which Meth does. So, for the benefit of you and other around you, the Gov't has deemed Drug X illegal.

We do charge rapists, murders, robbers, etc for the charges they commit. According to law, you are responsible if you sold that person an illegal drug. Its like with places that serve alcohol (3rd party involvement) If a bartender serves you Beer all night long and you leave intoxicated and crash into a house. The bartender is responsible. Same goes for drugs. You sell em, your responsible for whatever the buyer does.

Well legal drugs arent tied to crime often are they? When was the last time you saw this on the headlines.

"22 year old man goes on rampage after taking 6 Tylenol, 2 above the recomended limit!"

Or

"Family murdered by man using Viagra!"

Drugs are tied to crime because those drugs are the ones that affect ones state in such a way that the user would do something drastic.

It may not be a deterrent right now, but maybe if we actually used it...
 
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