How were we created?

[megaman 2006]

I'm rather enjoying both of your arguments. I just have this to say. Imnotcrazy, you said god chooses who he helps and who he doesn't. If thats true and saying God really exists. Thats pretty dam mean of him. Why worship such a cruel bastard?

Also, in an earlier argument, There was story about a business man who became an atheist and his business turned around due to the devil. I thought about that. And if thats true it doesn't sound like the Devil is evil. He just chooses who to help and who not to help. When I think of it like that, it doesn't seem like a fight between good and evil. Just different sides. Maybe if religion is true(Christianity, I mean), the devil is just stereotyped as being evil and vice-versa.

Personally I'm an atheist but even if God was real, I still wouldn't worship him. I mean who creates an entire universe then inhabits it and forces them to worship him or else their condemned to hell? Egomaniac? Going to heaven should be based on the good things done in your life, not whether you go to church on Sundays. Of course it might be based on that and I might end up in heaven with you.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

The thing is, you're wrong.

prove it then.

Fine. Go back to the oldest religion - a form of sun-worship.

Does that seems very accurate?

Not very fair of him.

Did I say He had to be fair?

Not really. They just accept that certain parts of the Bible are metaphors.

Yes, they accept certain parts of the Bible, most do not believe the entire Bible as truth, sent by God.

I'm rather enjoying both of your arguments. I just have this to say. Imnotcrazy, you said god chooses who he helps and who he doesn't. If thats true and saying God really exists. Thats pretty dam mean of him. Why worship such a cruel bastard?

God chooses who He helps for a reason. You wouldn't help someone who has just killed 10,000 people now, and accepts Christ when He is in an electric chair now would you? If He were to help everyone in the whole damn world at once, that asked for help, He would just be some bitch for anyone who chose His religion. Everyone would choose his religion because they were getting all the shit they ever wanted.

Also, in an earlier argument, There was story about a business man who became an atheist and his business turned around due to the devil. I thought about that. And if thats true it doesn't sound like the Devil is evil. He just chooses who to help and who not to help. When I think of it like that, it doesn't seem like a fight between good and evil. Just different sides. Maybe if religion is true(Christianity, I mean), the devil is just stereotyped as being evil and vice-versa.

You then in turn must think. If God opposes Satan, Satan shall be damned to hell, where am I going if I worship him? I made the statement that Satan rewarded the Athiest, because of the Athiests defience upon God, and for him by choosing the incorrect path, which now seems correct to him, because he became rewarded for it.

The devil in this world is stereotyped as a symbol for evil. He was God's greatest angel. He then in turn thought that he should be just as powerful as God. God then banished Him to earth, where he shall roam until the return of Christ.

Personally I'm an atheist but even if God was real, I still wouldn't worship him. I mean who creates an entire universe then inhabits it and forces them to worship him or else their condemned to hell? Egomaniac? Going to heaven should be based on the good things done in your life, not whether you go to church on Sundays. Of course it might be based on that and I might end up in heaven with you.

Now you wouldn't worship something that would damn you to hell for all eternity. He doesn't force worship, you have a choice. If you think its based on good works, nice go be a mormon.

 

[shawnvd]

personally, i don't see how we could be created from stars, when we were created so perfectly, there is no way that we could have just formed naturally, when no scientist has even created a single cell.

I don't see how all of the planets can orbit so perfectly, how earth is the only planet with life on it, how we ended up on earth which was the perfect planet to live on, if God didn't exist.

 

[tkmstr1009]

God; religion in itself was a phenomenon created by man. See, in order for man to stay occupied and to stay focused on life, man needed to turn to the occult; man needed to look up to something bigger than him; hence, religion. Religion; Christianity especially, was the totem used to bring communities together in ancient times, but, now we realize that it backfired, it only created war and animosity toward the "inferior race". When you take these facts into account, you then conclude that god had nothing to do with our creation, this does not mean that i do not believe in something bigger than me, i do believe in Satan, i am a satanist, though, i am really jewish. Fundamentalism, which is also Christianity, does not make sense, this is because the 10 commandments, which are in Christianity as well as Judaism, state 10 rules for us to live by, that if we stray from, we will be smitten by the divine one. The problem is, the 10 commandments are the exact opposite of how human nature works; these rules actually defy human biology and thought patterns, therefore, they are flawed, along with all off Christianity. Satanism on the other hand, has nine rules, which match human nature, and think about this, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he was never here." This tells us that somebody is the Antichrist, but if there is no Christ, then how could there be an Antichrist? This is EXACTLY why Christianity is flawed. Now, onto the point; If you believe that Christ put you on earth, then you are dead wrong! We were the product of evolution. It's that simple, we are just water and nitrogen. It is that simple!

- Tkmstr1009

 

[imnotcrazy357]

God; religion in itself was a phenomenon created by man. See, in order for man to stay occupied and to stay focused on life, man needed to turn to the occult; man needed to look up to something bigger than him; hence, religion. Religion; Christianity especially, was the totem used to bring communities together in ancient times, but, now we realize that it backfired, it only created war and animosity toward the "inferior race". When you take these facts into account, you then conclude that god had nothing to do with our creation, this does not mean that i do not believe in something bigger than me, i do believe in Satan, i am a satanist, though, i am really jewish. Fundamentalism, which is also Christianity, does not make sense, this is because the 10 commandments, which are in Christianity as well as Judaism, state 10 rules for us to live by, that if we stray from, we will be smitten by the divine one. The problem is, the 10 commandments are the exact opposite of how human nature works; these rules actually defy human biology and thought patterns, therefore, they are flawed, along with all off Christianity. Satanism on the other hand, has nine rules, which match human nature, and think about this, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he was never here." This tells us that somebody is the Antichrist, but if there is no Christ, then how could there be an Antichrist? This is EXACTLY why Christianity is flawed. Now, onto the point; If you believe that Christ put you on earth, then you are dead wrong! We were the product of evolution. It's that simple, we are just water and nitrogen. It is that simple!

- Tkmstr1009

It's proven, and accepted, even by secular scientisits that Christ exisisted in History. The fact that He did mericals, and is the Savior of the earth, is not proven. This is where your logic is flawed. Someone who opposes someone else can be "Anti" that person Someone who opposes Christ, then can be an "Anti" Christ.

If the Devil is real, the Devil encourages facts that are true to the world, where did the Devil come from?

You believe in religion, but you admit religion is the downfall of man?

Christianity is wrong, because it has higher morals, and ethics then another religion?

You think be living of the world, what the world wants you to do, you will be saved by conforming?

 

[megaman 2006]

God chooses who He helps for a reason. You wouldn't help someone who has just killed 10,000 people now, and accepts Christ when He is in an electric chair now would you? If He were to help everyone in the whole damn world at once, that asked for help, He would just be some bitch for anyone who chose His religion. Everyone would choose his religion because they were getting all the shit they ever wanted.

I never said god should help murderers, I said its dam mean of him to help certain people and not others. The "certain people" meaning rich people from wherever that only seem to get richer, and the people that truly need it.
I just don't understand how people in todays world blindly believe in an all powerful being.

I almost saw what you meant about everyone asking for help, but he is all powerful, he could snap his fingers and give everyone everything they need to be happy. But he doesn't, follow the thought process and I come up with two conclusions, he's dam cruel and likes watching us suffer(not me though, I live quite comfortably) or he doesn't exist. I'm not using the idea
of this world being a test for the afterlife on two facts. One; not everyone who're suffering are Christian and will in turn go to heaven, and two; if he did in fact create this planet it should be easy to make us follow his religion which
challenges him being almighty.

prove it then.
You then in turn must think. If God opposes Satan, Satan shall be damned to hell, where am I going if I worship him? I made the statement that Satan rewarded the Athiest, because of the Athiests defience upon God, and for him by choosing the incorrect path, which now seems correct to him, because he became rewarded for it.

I believe you missed my point entirely, I was pointing out that hell could for all we know be another part of heaven-just as amazing- and they could just be fighting over territory. All Christians really have to go on is the bible. Which to me isn't much.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

I never said god should help murderers, I said its dam mean of him to help certain people and not others. The "certain people" meaning rich people from wherever that only seem to get richer, and the people that truly need it.
I just don't understand how people in todays world blindly believe in an all powerful being.

Why is it damn mean of Him?
If God helped everyone, He would just be our Bitch.
If God helped no one, there would be no Christianity.
If God helped every believer, then everyone would be Christian.

You put it as God only helps the rich and God doesn't help the poor. God often helps the Rich, who give up time, money, and other forms of self-sacrifice for Him.

Who is it that often Shelters the homeles?
Who is it that often gives food to the poor?
Who is it that sits and talks with the homeless?

*Cough*Christian's*Cough* or should I say the messengers of God.

I almost saw what you meant about everyone asking for help, but he is all powerful, he could snap his fingers and give everyone everything they need to be happy.

Then wouldn't God just be everyones bitch giving them everything they ever wanted with working, or giving things up through persicution, and self suffering? Why the Hell should He give you everything you want? If you lead a sinless life, I can understand but since you don't and no one does, why the Hell should the creater of everything take pitty upon you?

But he doesn't, follow the thought process and I come up with two conclusions, he's dam cruel and likes watching us suffer(not me though, I live quite comfortably) or he doesn't exist. I'm not using the idea
of this world being a test for the afterlife on two facts. One; not everyone who're suffering are Christian and will in turn go to heaven, and two; if he did in fact create this planet it should be easy to make us follow his religion which
challenges him being almighty.

Who does He love to watch suffer?

One: so because your not a Christian you shouldn't suffer?

Two: So you would choose to live exactly the way He wants you to by Him controlling your life, and you giving up your freewill? Its your choice of what you do with your life, this is freewill, He could of simply forced all of us to follow Him, but then there would be no point of this world. We would all simply be robots, set to what He wants us to do.

I believe you missed my point entirely, I was pointing out that hell could for all we know be another part of heaven-just as amazing- and they could just be fighting over territory. All Christians really have to go on is the bible. Which to me isn't much.

Since you believe partially what the Bible is saying, Heaven and Hell do exist, but do not believe the rest there is no point for me to argue this fact, All I can fight for is what the Bible is saying, and you reject that fact so I will always lose.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Why is it damn mean of Him?
If God helped everyone, He would just be our Bitch.
If God helped no one, there would be no Christianity.
If God helped every believer, then everyone would be Christian.

If you believe that God's plan interacts with people according to his plan, then that logic can apply to any event. You say (or others do) that his plan is unknowable, and that every result it produces is 100% what God intended, since God is all-knowing. This cannot be tested. Any event can be attributed to God's plan, but you have no way of knowing it.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

If you believe that God's plan interacts with people according to his plan, then that logic can apply to any event. You say (or others do) that his plan is unknowable, and that every result it produces is 100% what God intended, since God is all-knowing. This cannot be tested. Any event can be attributed to God's plan, but you have no way of knowing it.

God's plan interacts with people according to his plan?

get more specific please.

God's plan is unknowable, other then the fact that Christ will return.
God knows 100% of everything that shall happen. If it is intended by Him ro not, He knows.

all events could be attributed to God's plan, yes
no you don't have a way of knowing it, or proving it.

 

[Shredderbeam]

God's plan interacts with people according to his plan?

get more specific please.

God's plan is unknowable, other then the fact that Christ will return.
God knows 100% of everything that shall happen. If it is intended by Him ro not, He knows.

all events could be attributed to God's plan, yes
no you don't have a way of knowing it, or proving it.

Then I have two problems.

1). Why would you believe such a thing?

2). You can partially understand God. He's not a complete enigma. Why would he allow the Holocaust to occur?

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Then I have two problems.

1). Why would you believe such a thing?

What are you refering to here?

2). You can partially understand God. He's not a complete enigma. Why would he allow the Holocaust to occur?

Free will. Hitler gained the power to be able to do so, and thats what he beleived to be correct. If God was to stop such an act, wouldn't that take away Hitlers free will?