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Is BTC worthless?

Air Fryer
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On to the value of Bitcoin. Whether we define it as money or a commodity is not entirely important. Either way, it is clearly used as a media of exchange, and the value of a media of exchange is derived from the demand for that media, and the supply of that media. Since Bitcoins supply is fixed, its value will only fluctuate in proportion with its demand. It is not inherently worthless, it is, like every other thing in existence, subjectively valuable per the demands of the consumer. So long as people demand it, it will have value, and given the fact that its supply is fixed unlike probably ALL types of money ever (salt, gold, cigarettes, fiat currency are not fixed in quantity), it is likely to gradually increasing in value as people keep increasing the demand.
Not a bad post. Two things:
1 - I think people over-stress the fact that bitcoins are capped in production. The anticipated end-date is 125 years away. Gold, oil, etc. are also capped (finite amount on earth, though I guess some, but not that much, is produced naturally) and may well run out prior. So I think the argument that there's a finite cap isn't enough to think of bitcoin as a finite set of things... we're well off from that point and likely will be as long as bitcoins are valuable.
2 - The underlying assumption in your last paragraph is that people will demand bitcoin at all... in the present, I don't see a great reason to do that, but in the future, there may be. I think that potential is where bitcoin's value lies.
 
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Easter 2013
Doge
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Not a bad post. Two things:
1 - I think people over-stress the fact that bitcoins are capped in production. The anticipated end-date is 125 years away. Gold, oil, etc. are also capped (finite amount on earth, though I guess some, but not that much, is produced naturally) and may well run out prior. So I think the argument that there's a finite cap isn't enough to think of bitcoin as a finite set of things... we're well off from that point and likely will be as long as bitcoins are valuable.
Not really, unaccessible gold, oil, etc is not considered a resource as it cannot be used in production, even if the physical quantity of it is fixed. I know it sounds strange, but lets take the minerals on the Moon. They exist, but we do not consider them a resource because we cannot use them. In 50 years time however, when we are able to harvest them as a result of technological advancements they will then be considered a resource.

2 - The underlying assumption in your last paragraph is that people will demand bitcoin at all... in the present, I don't see a great reason to do that, but in the future, there may be. I think that potential is where bitcoin's value lies.
True, it could very well be that the demand of Bitcoin falls, I would bet that in the long term, demand for it will increase, unless a better cryptocurrency comes along.
 
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Eh, granted. I still think the argument that bitcoin is fixed is overblown. My personal opinion is that the crypto-x that changes the world isn't going to be a currency but rather something else. Will update this post within the next decade once we see what's up :p.
 
Thanks for your opinions, I'm amazed at how BTC can fluctuate the way it does.

Though I see no long term future in the currency sadly.

Also I highly doubt technological advancements will lead to us mining on the moon, think about what people thought in the 90's they predicted we'd be flying cars and visiting other planets.
 
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1 Bitcoin is equal to almost $300 AUD at the moment, so clearly it was worth something. There are probably only two ways you can regard a cryptocurrency such as bitcoin. The first, is that it is money, a media of exchange. The second is that it is a commodity, that it is not money.

Historically, per the regression theorem, the history of money can always be derived from its use value as a commodity, and in time, as people begin to use it as a media of exchange, an additional value is attached to the commodity, now moneys function as a media of exchange. For example, golds function as jewelery etc, now being used as a media of exchange augmented its value. The same can be said for salt, cigarettes etc.

Most people think Bitcoin defies this rule, as we clearly see it being used as a media of exchange, but don't recognise that it historically had a commodity value outside of its function of money. Thus most people opt to define Bitcoin is a commodity. However, I've seen it satisfactorily argued that Bitcoin, initially was a unique type of payment network, with bitcoins being merely the accounting unit used on the payment network. As people delved into this payment network, testing whether it was safe, secure, etc its value increased slowly, and as a lot of people started using the payment network, they would be using the account units on that network, Bitcoin. Thus Bitcoins value is ultimately derived from the utility of its payment network, and the accounting units have now been used as a media of exchange, augmenting their value.

On to the value of Bitcoin. Whether we define it as money or a commodity is not entirely important. Either way, it is clearly used as a media of exchange, and the value of a media of exchange is derived from the demand for that media, and the supply of that media. Since Bitcoins supply is fixed, its value will only fluctuate in proportion with its demand. It is not inherently worthless, it is, like every other thing in existence, subjectively valuable per the demands of the consumer. So long as people demand it, it will have value, and given the fact that its supply is fixed unlike probably ALL types of money ever (salt, gold, cigarettes, fiat currency are not fixed in quantity), it is likely to gradually increasing in value as people keep increasing the demand.

I would argue the point that, at this point in time, the issue of BitCoin being commodity versus currency is a very important issue to consider and thus very influential on the price. The big news is the discussion of possible regulation coming out of the US, which means some sort of mainstream acceptance. The problem with that being how are the regulations going to define it, because private currencies and commodities are regulated very differently and could wholly effect the methods of exchange or the availability. If the US upped and banned some aspect of the market and transfer (speaking hypothetically, but could be very real depending upon decisions of lawmakers) it could drastically alter the price of the coin.
 
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Easter 2013
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I would argue the point that, at this point in time, the issue of BitCoin being commodity versus currency is a very important issue to consider and thus very influential on the price. The big news is the discussion of possible regulation coming out of the US, which means some sort of mainstream acceptance. The problem with that being how are the regulations going to define it, because private currencies and commodities are regulated very differently and could wholly effect the methods of exchange or the availability. If the US upped and banned some aspect of the market and transfer (speaking hypothetically, but could be very real depending upon decisions of lawmakers) it could drastically alter the price of the coin.
Good point, the classification of Bitcoin would definitely affect its demand. I still think it ought to be classified as money, however with mainstream economics, I have no idea how they differentiate between the two.
 
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Traditional econ says money = a unit of account, a store of value, and a medium of exchange. Bitcoin isn't really a unit of account so I'm hesitant to call it proper money by that definition.
Isn't Bitcoin just the units of account on the Bitcoin payment system? It's definitely a store of value, unstable as it is (technically anything is a store of value, per the subjective theory of value). It's also a media of exchange. What am I missing that's controversial?
 
Traditional econ says money = a unit of account, a store of value, and a medium of exchange. Bitcoin isn't really a unit of account so I'm hesitant to call it proper money by that definition.

Unless BTC somehow becomes a physical form of currency...
 
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Oh hmmm... I think you're right and I'm confusing it with something else.

From some random site: "A unit of account is something that can be used to value goods and services, record debts, and make calculations. In other words, it's a measurement for value." So yeah, you're probably right. There's something somewhere that has to do with the validity of things and how that relates to other goods being denoted in that thing. So like, until you can find oil/bread/underwear denoted in bitcoin, it's not quite a full currency... But the more I think about it, I think I'm just conflating things lol. zzzz

Unless BTC somehow becomes a physical form of currency...
What?
 
People only realize Bitcoin was worth investing when every last coin gets mined and trading would be the only way to obtain them. They'd probably be at $1k+ by that time which is totally worth investing for now.
 
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People only realize Bitcoin was worth investing when every last coin gets mined and trading would be the only way to obtain them. They'd probably be at $1k+ by that time which is totally worth investing for now.
Yeah a 400% ROI in 125 years is pretty bad :p. But just because something is scarce doesn't mean it's valuable.
 
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The currency is definitely unstable given the nature of the market. I find it interesting and fun to follow, though, and I see it rising again soon.
 
Heidy
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I'm not terribly familiar with crypto, but is it possible to use 1-time QR codes on a piece of paper for physical crypto exchange?

I think it'd work in theory, but it'd take some work. Have a QR code linked to a system to distribute payments from a wallet.
 
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