Question for the Atheists

[malakadang]

Did you read this http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=828857 ??

It's fine as fundamentally, this isn't a 'God' thread, and, it's asking reasonable questions.

 

[Wrote_Murder]

Atheism being a religion is a very popular argument, with no side winning.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

That's a rather good article I read a bit back about the issue.

 

[SuF]

And the military defines what constitutes a religion?

They ask about your religion for dog tags and they support chaplains of all religious faiths. They allow atheist and humanism to be put on dog tags but they do not allow atheists to hold the position of chaplain (I do not know about humanism).

Regardless, the whole atheism as religion argument is stupid anyways. It is essentially just another way of saying "none" but since it is assumed you believe in god, you must say you do not.

 

[Ivy Bridge]

Atheism being a religion is a very popular argument, with no side winning.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

That's a rather good article I read a bit back about the issue.

I am not sure you even read that if you truly think that article supports your point. Out of what I read, the entire point of the article is actually to dismantle the argument that atheism is a religion, which it does quite well.

 

[thatguy1234]

I also have a question to athiests.

What do you believe started everything? Someone or something greater than a human had to create everything that exists. Even with the big bang theory, something had to create that. There is never just nothingness, even in space.

Most atheists Ive talked to or have heard elaborate their thoughts have ideas that were only manifested because of a popular belief and a lack to comprehend anything else. Most everything we know is because someone told us, so who's to say that person is right? For example evolution, or even the big bang theory. (Which is once again a THEORY. For all we know a potato couldve created everything.)

I just think its somewhat asinine to assume NOTHING exists after we die, given that SOMETHING created us. Someone please elaborate so i can grasp the full concept of your thoughts on this. No answer is wrong because everyone is different, I just want a general idea or someone to explain their thought process on this idea.

 

[Icy Cabbage]

Personally, I would never call myself an atheist but well I feel when you die or pass away, I feel that i would go into an endless sleep without dreams. Bad and good deeds do nothing considering if there was a heaven you can always ask god for forgiveness of your sins therefore he will accept you as his one of his children and you would be accepted into heaven. Purgatory is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. But seriously, after death, nothing...

I agree with this, I've always thought of it as being a blank nothing. It's really hard to put your mind around this though.

 

[SuF]

I also have a question to athiests.

What do you believe started everything? Someone or something greater than a human had to create everything that exists. Even with the big bang theory, something had to create that. There is never just nothingness, even in space.

Most atheists Ive talked to or have heard elaborate their thoughts have ideas that were only manifested because of a popular belief and a lack to comprehend anything else. Most everything we know is because someone told us, so who's to say that person is right? For example evolution, or even the big bang theory. (Which is once again a THEORY. For all we know a potato couldve created everything.)

I just think its somewhat asinine to assume NOTHING exists after we die, given that SOMETHING created us. Someone please elaborate so i can grasp the full concept of your thoughts on this. No answer is wrong because everyone is different, I just want a general idea or someone to explain their thought process on this idea.

The big bang was just when the ball of matter that was extremely small that held all the matter in our universe exploded. If you ball up all that energy, its all going to explode at some point. No need for a creator or anything.

How do you know there is never nothingness? It is entirely possible that there is simply a void when no matter occupies a space. Or there could be anti-matter, dark-matter, shits and giggles, or whatever. Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it does not make sense. Our brains evolved to understand the world around us, not what created that world.

Look at this:

The ones that pop out are the ones that the shadow is on the bottom. Why? Because your brain evolved with the sun being overhead, and that was the only source of light (generally). Thus, if the top was light and the bottom was dark, it had to stick out to block the light. There are plenty of illusions like this that show very clearly that the brain evolved to understand the world around us so not being able to understand abstract notions of nothingness and non-existence make perfect sense.

 

[JayD <3]

I believe that we just decompose and become part of nature... There is nothing really that happens to when you die, you just stop breathing and stay in an unconscious state.

 

[malakadang]

I also have a question to athiests.

What do you believe started everything?

Existence always existed.

Someone or something greater than a human had to create everything that exists.

What created that supernatural being?

Even with the big bang theory, something had to create that. There is never just nothingness, even in space.

If you state that there is never nothingness, then you concede that there must've always been existence. In essence, existence has always existed. You can't create existence without existing yourself, and, the opposite of that is to say nothing created existence which refutes your first point that something can't come from nothing.

Most atheists Ive talked to or have heard elaborate their thoughts have ideas that were only manifested because of a popular belief and a lack to comprehend anything else. Most everything we know is because someone told us, so who's to say that person is right?

Going on word of mouth alone is folly, I agree. You have to take into account the evidence. Hearsay is never accepted in the scientific community, things are tested numerous times. If you have doubts over the existence of gravity, you can drop a pen and see what happens. If you have doubts over evolution, observe that the flu season occurs every year (the easiest example of micro evolution).

For example evolution, or even the big bang theory. (Which is once again a THEORY. For all we know a potato couldve created everything.)

Scientific theory.

I just think its somewhat asinine to assume NOTHING exists after we die, given that SOMETHING created us.

Who created us? Apart from our parents of course. What evidence do you have for the existence of said creator?

Someone please elaborate so i can grasp the full concept of your thoughts on this. No answer is wrong because everyone is different, I just want a general idea or someone to explain their thought process on this idea.

There are wrong answers. In this case where you have 2 views that contradict each other, one of them is wrong. View 1: An entity created us all. View 2: Existence always existed; there was no creator.

I'll be a bit more concise about existence always existed:

There is a bifurcate:

Existence always existed (There was no creator).
Something created existence. (There is a creator).

The fundamental flaw in statement 2 (in argumentative form):

P1: Things either exist, or they do not exist.
P2: In order for something to create existence, it must either exist, or not exist (From P1).
P3: If the creator of existence exists, that implies that existence already existed; if the creator exists, then it is an existent in existence.
P4: If the creator of existence does not exist, that implies that there is no creator, for, it doesn't exist.
C1: Therefore P3 is correct, and existence always existed.

I don't think anyone can refute P1 (law of the excluded middle).
As P2 follows from premise 1, you must deny P1 first in order to deny this.

Think about Premise 3 and 4. I find them to be axiomatic, and thus, will not explain. Just think about it.

 

[mortalmatt]

When you die (the point at which you pass away, you are no longer alive and breathing on this planet any more) What do you believe happens? What do you believe is the purpose of your life? Are you not concerned of anything that might occur once you die? Don't you feel some spiritual being has to be accountable for all of your good and bad deeds?


Please no childish spamming. These are honest questions that I want to see from an Atheist's perspective, to better my own understanding of an Atheist's mindset.

When I die I cease to exist. There is no purpose in life other than to live; how one chooses to live his or her life is their decision. I hold myself accountable for my mistakes and progress.. Life is about self progression. I just don't see any reason to believe in a god. Would you believe in a god if you were to be born and there was no concept of religion? Just the science that explains a lot of this world. Organized religion in my opinion is a means of control; And it always has been powerful. The youth's brainwashed at such a young age to believe in a god, not mature enough to form their own beliefs.

 

[Wrote_Murder]

I am not sure you even read that if you truly think that article supports your point. Out of what I read, the entire point of the article is actually to dismantle the argument that atheism is a religion, which it does quite well.

What, It obviously doesn't support my point. It's a counter argument. It would have been benine to post an article of what I was saying, as it would hold no water. I don't necessarily think it's a religion, I play devils advocate to every argument.

 

[xMaYHeM]

Concerning OP: I'm an Atheist, and quite frankly I believe that I will deal with what happens after death, after death. Honestly I see no point in worrying about such things, I mean come on, enjoy your life man!
I believe that we are an insignificant animal on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system. We are the 27 billionth grain of sand on the beach when you look at how vast the Universe actually is, its impossible to comprehend the size of it, and yet people believe that we are the only life forms that exist? Come on..
I wrote a good essay on Atheism and handed it to my RE teacher at high school, she had nothing to say. I'm going to dig it up and post it for you

[Edit]

When I die I cease to exist. There is no purpose in life other than to live; how one chooses to live his or her life is their decision. I hold myself accountable for my mistakes and progress.. Life is about self progression. I just don't see any reason to believe in a god. Would you believe in a god if you were to be born and there was no concept of religion? Just the science that explains a lot of this world. Organized religion in my opinion is a means of control; And it always has been powerful. The youth's brainwashed at such a young age to believe in a god, not mature enough to form their own beliefs.

This is exactly right and I love your point. Would you believe in a God if no one had told you about the concept of a supreme being?

 

[thatguy1234]

Existence always existed.

What created that supernatural being?
If you state that there is never nothingness, then you concede that there must've always been existence. In essence, existence has always existed. You can't create existence without existing yourself, and, the opposite of that is to say nothing created existence which refutes your first point that something can't come from nothing.

Going on word of mouth alone is folly, I agree. You have to take into account the evidence. Hearsay is never accepted in the scientific community, things are tested numerous times. If you have doubts over the existence of gravity, you can drop a pen and see what happens. If you have doubts over evolution, observe that the flu season occurs every year (the easiest example of micro evolution).

Scientific theory.

Who created us? Apart from our parents of course. What evidence do you have for the existence of said creator?

There are wrong answers. In this case where you have 2 views that contradict each other, one of them is wrong. View 1: An entity created us all. View 2: Existence always existed; there was no creator.

I'll be a bit more concise about existence always existed:

There is a bifurcate:

Existence always existed (There was no creator).
Something created existence. (There is a creator).

The fundamental flaw in statement 2 (in argumentative form):

P1: Things either exist, or they do not exist.
P2: In order for something to create existence, it must either exist, or not exist (From P1).
P3: If the creator of existence exists, that implies that existence already existed; if the creator exists, then it is an existent in existence.
P4: If the creator of existence does not exist, that implies that there is no creator, for, it doesn't exist.
C1: Therefore P3 is correct, and existence always existed.

I don't think anyone can refute P1 (law of the excluded middle).
As P2 follows from premise 1, you must deny P1 first in order to deny this.

Think about Premise 3 and 4. I find them to be axiomatic, and thus, will not explain. Just think about it.

So from where do you believe everything and everyone originated from? What evidence do you have that there isnt a creator or an omnipotent individual that started everything? If there is an answer, is it too far from human comprehension at this moment in time? You seem knowledgeable about this topic and i would like you to elaborate on your own theory.

Also P3 makes the most sense. Existence existed before the creator of existence. Its an infinite flow with no beggining or end if i understand this right. and if P4 cant be right because if no creator exists then how are we existing at the moment? P4 basically says there is a creator whether it be a person, object or event.

 

[Dalko]

Never in my life have i once believed that something happens when you die, as far as im concerned, when you die, its simply game over..

 

[Herman Li]

So from where do you believe everything and everyone originated from? What evidence do you have that there isnt a creator or an omnipotent individual that started everything? If there is an answer, is it too far from human comprehension at this moment in time? You seem knowledgeable about this topic and i would like you to elaborate on your own theory.

Also P3 makes the most sense. Existence existed before the creator of existence. Its an infinite flow with no beggining or end if i understand this right. and if P4 cant be right because if no creator exists then how are we existing at the moment? P4 basically says there is a creator whether it be a person, object or event.

This can never be answered. Humans cannot comprehend 'infinity', therefore we cannot say if a 'being' was always there/not there before the universe/existence.

Given that, I think it's ignorant to ignore the possibility of something greater, god or not. Sure it doesn't have to be through a religion, but just a higher presence in general. We humans are extremely limited with our simple 5 senses. To ignore the possibility of more is stupid.

 

[BroLy Bro]

So from where do you believe everything and everyone originated from? What evidence do you have that there isnt a creator or an omnipotent individual that started everything?

There is no evidence to suggest there is an omnipotent being that started everything.

 

[JamRsPins]

OP worded this as if there is even a single shred of evidence to suggest that gods and life after death exist. I think the reason the world is no longer ruled by religion is simply because people are waking up. That's why such a stupid thing rules the world today. Money. There doesn't have to be a purpose for anything, especially life.

 

[thatguy1234]

This can never be answered. Humans cannot comprehend 'infinity', therefore we cannot say if a 'being' was always there/not there before the universe/existence.

Given that, I think it's ignorant to ignore the possibility of something greater, god or not. Sure it doesn't have to be through a religion, but just a higher presence in general. We humans are extremely limited with our simple 5 senses. To ignore the possibility of more is stupid.

This is exactly what i was trying to say .

There is no evidence to suggest there is an omnipotent being that started everything.

there is evidence that somewhere something or someone created the world we live in today. just the fact of existence proves that. The being or thing may not be omnipotent but its asinine to ignore the obvious IMO, even if we cant comprehend it right now.

 

[xMaYHeM]

We humans are extremely limited with our simple 5 senses. To ignore the possibility of more is stupid.

I'd like to disagree actually with this one. How can we know that we are extremely limited with our senses when we have nothing greater to compare to? Humankind is the most intelligent and evolved species on earth is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong but there is nothing that we know of that exists that is 'better' than us?
Not to sound egotistical but doesn't that make us the greatest?
I just like to be argumentative is all ^.^

 

[SuF]

I'd like to disagree actually with this one. How can we know that we are extremely limited with our senses when we have nothing greater to compare to? Humankind is the most intelligent and evolved species on earth is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong but there is nothing that we know of that exists that is 'better' than us?
Not to sound egotistical but doesn't that make us the greatest?
I just like to be argumentative is all ^.^

He is actually right. We have evolved to see the world in a certain way and are extremely limited by that. We can only learn about our world through our limited senses and it is our brains that allow us to use this limited information to slowly discover more about the world. However, it becomes hard for many to see beyond what their senses tell them and accept things like that the sun is the center of the galaxy, not the earth.