"Zero Tolerance" Policies

[thequestionmark]

After Columbine, the majority of school districts around the nation began what are generally known as "Zero-Tolerance" policies. While they may or may not be enforced in some areas, they generally do the following

1. Increase the punishments, especially suspensions and expulsions
2. Increase the "classification" of a weapon.
3. Make things done outside of school time and property viable for in-school punishments. This includes the cyber-world.
4. Punish discrimination to the fullest extent possible, or "anyone" that feels threateaned in any shape or form.

These policies are now being shown NOT to stop school shootings, and actually be detrimental to the overall education system because non-violent, non threatening offenders are being removed from school.

For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(schools)

Those that are not interested in my story can feel free to discuss this issue from here without reading what's below.

My personal story is this. After school in "Mock-Trial", I was talking about how Asian Day was racist, so we might as well disclude Indians from it. A very annoying Indian girl made a stupid retort, so I said "so says the burnt cake on the stove". She got upset, so I promptly apologized no less than 3 times. That said, I am neither white, nor racist.

The next day, I got a call from my school's administration. Without wanting to know my side of the story, the principal had already prepared a 5-day suspension. The next day, I sat in the deans office (with 2 deans), but the principal could not make time in his "busy schedule" to talk to me face to face. Thus, the deans acted as a proxy to the principal, who made all the true decisions. I explained how I was not being racist, and had no intent to harm, and how I apologized immediately after. The deans, highly sympathetic for my situation, told the principal that 5-days was an unreasonable sentence. The principal replied that I had already gone through a 3-day suspension (I've never been suspended) and that I had a history of problems since middle school (I don't know what that means in all honesty). The deans corrected him, but without even bothering to meet me face to face, the principal decided that he would go with the next harshest punishment, a 3-day suspension. Keep in mind that my principal is young, ignorant to the true environment at our school, and very "righteous"- he told me I was a racist for not stopping racism at our school via phone.

In the end, he basically said that policy is policy. The story concludes: cracking a bad joke leads to 3 day suspension, even with prior apologies.

Qmark

 

[p0oned y0u1]

I've had a similar experience with there zero tolerance rules. I am a um... some would say aggressive debater. I am not physically aggressive, but to the lower educated people at my school I over power them with words. ( I am not implying I am smart I am implying I live in a ghetto and go to school with kids that are under the average intelligence) With that said I got into an argument with a kid that was throwing stuff at me and my friend at a basketball game. I thought it was all resolved but then the next day at school he came up to me wanting to fight. (I am no longer, but used to be very big into fighting) I fought people a lot and had a reputation for doing it outside of school. So he assumed I would fight he. I said no thanks because I didn't feel like getting suspended. He pushed me into the wall I dropped my stuff knocked him to the ground and mounted him. Some guys pulled me off (I didn't throw any punches just showed him I could) We went on our ways, and next period I got called up to the principals office. She talked to both of us. He had been running his mouth the a friend on how we "fought" and the dean was right there and over heard. So we both ended up with a 3 day suspension. We didn't even fight and I thought it was all resolved but we got suspended for it. Me, him, and the other guy that was gana fight me became friends so this is all in the past but I thought a 3 day suspension was harsh.

Later on that year I was in the line for breakfast (our school served us free breakfast) and this guy decides to cut me cause he thinks he's a hardcore peurto rican. I was like no bro you can wait in line like everyone else. He was saying how he would knock me out and all that (even though he was like 4' 11" and I'm 5' 11" and weigh 165 lbs. and am on the football team) so i was like whatever dude I really don't care. I turned around and started talking to my friends again. Then he jacked me in the side of the face while I was talking to my friends and started swinging. I knocked him 3 times in the face and then they cops came and tore us off each other. (We have like 5 cops at our school on duty all day) I apparently broke his nose and he bruised his knuckles on my face. So they were going to expel me and let him off with 3 days till they found out he hit me from behind when I wasn't looking and started the fight. (He had also gotten in 3 fights previously that year), but since he said that I started the fight (even though all the witnesses say he did) he got off with a 5 day suspension and I did to since I participated in the fight. (I was heated because I didn't choose to get into a fight) They even if I would have just stood there and not done anything I would be suspended because of there zero tolerance policy....

Suspended for getting beat up is ridiculous. (No, I did not get beat up he got his nose broke, but what I'm saying is that even if I didn't fight back I would have been suspended 5 days for "participating".)

Zero tolerance policy is ridiculous and helps in no way what so ever.

Note: I would like to mention that I am a Honors student and only got suspended that year in my entire life.

 

[Memos]

"These policies are now being shown NOT to stop school shootings, and actually be detrimental to the overall education system because non-violent, non threatening offenders are being removed from school."

How can you say that when there hasn't been a shooting?

 

[thequestionmark]

"These policies are now being shown NOT to stop school shootings, and actually be detrimental to the overall education system because non-violent, non threatening offenders are being removed from school."

How can you say that when there hasn't been a shooting?

Since the laws are being imposed, you need evidence that it WORKS, not evidence that proves it doesn't work.

What do you mean by there hasn't been a shooting? I'm sure there has... Or at least "weapon-violence"...

 

[p0oned y0u1]

Yes haven't you heard of the Virgina Tech shooting? That happened after the zero tolerance policy was put into place. That is definitely what I would call a shooting.

I could find some other shootings too but this zero tolerance policy thing is ridiculous. It would be a better idea to take away violent movies and video games then it is to suspend good well behaved kids that have a mix up because of this zero tolerance policy.

 

[Memos]

I don't think Virginia Tech had imposed zero tolerance.
I mean, it's over the top to punish someone for an obvious joke, but the people in charge don't want eight dead students because some crazy ass kid didn't get reprimanded for writing racial slurs on a bathroom stall.

 

[rickykidder]

Yea I've been fucked over a couple times because of this. Various fights and sometimes just fucking around or doing stupid shit. So i really dont agree with this because almost no one is going to walk away form a fight. if someone gets a lick on you for any reason they are going to fight.

 

[thequestionmark]

Well, it's funny. My accuser went to my sister in school today, and said she felt guilty for getting me suspended.

I find that hilarious...

 

[Oephi]

Columbine is a fine example of why public schools are such failures.

The retards and the assholes get mixed, the assholes harass the retards, and one or two have the balls to come to school with a gun and kill everyone, then they sub-contract and kill themselves.

Ya done good Americans, Ya done good.

 

[xestrox]

I think these policies are not preventing events such as school shootings, aswell as i feel these policies are causing some extremely negative results, such as for exmaple, the act on punishing discrimination to the fullest extent, that causes issues in many cases where kids are involved in an altercation with another person not being the same color as them and than it is looked at as a hate crime, even though it was nothing of the sort. aswell as i feel these policies discourage kids from self defending thereself, as they will be punished more harshly for retalliation against another student.

 

[Christmas Crackers]

It's stupid that the principal would lie to help his argument, but then again he is the principal. A 3-day suspension for making a racist joke, I guess it's fair if that's the policy

 

[TJ]

The story concludes: cracking a bad joke leads to 3 day suspension, even with prior apologies.

No shit it still leads to punishment. The scar is left, which you cannot rid your body of. Thats like me going into a public place, killing everyone in sight and saying "oshit sorry" This does not make the action any better, therefor you still get punished. You still did the action, suck up to it.

 

[waltrulz]

we have that with cell phones.

1st=1 day ISS
2nd=3 days ISS
3rd= 3 days OSS
4th= 5 days OSS
5th= don't come back...

But you should'nt fight in school

 

[thequestionmark]

No shit it still leads to punishment. The scar is left, which you cannot rid your body of. Thats like me going into a public place, killing everyone in sight and saying "oshit sorry" This does not make the action any better, therefor you still get punished. You still did the action, suck up to it.

I didn't come here for an asshole's sympathy. I don't have any scar. This isn't about if what I did should be allowed, simply if the crime fits the punishment. I'm here to debate a set of policies which has been way over-extended and simply doesn't work.

 

[ultrakurby]

i really think that anyone caught with a weapon in a school should face huge consequences. The fact that "if you feel threatened" is bull. Ive been threeatened numerous amounts of times by this kid, does that mean i could get him in huge trouble? Hes even threatened to kill me... but i dont say anything cuz i know hes a pussy and wont back it up. If someone proves they will back it up then they should be punished though.

 

[thequestionmark]

i really think that anyone caught with a weapon in a school should face huge consequences. The fact that "if you feel threatened" is bull. Ive been threeatened numerous amounts of times by this kid, does that mean i could get him in huge trouble? Hes even threatened to kill me... but i dont say anything cuz i know hes a pussy and wont back it up. If someone proves they will back it up then they should be punished though.

At first it started with acts banning guns, which moved to knives, which moved to things as ridiculous as nail filers over time.

Anyone who brings a gun to school should be expelled. this is common sense, we don't need a policy.