Your thoughts about bots?

[Blackmagic]

LMFAO I can't believe what I'm reading. People are seriously trying to come up with a logical argument that botting doesn't hurt the economy and is a good thing?

Personally I don't care that people bot/cheat or w/e. Ultimately you play however you want to play. If I had a glitch to exploit damn right I would exploit it; I'm not going to say/try to convince myself and others its fair or right though. Obviously those of us who have lives aren't going to sit there and legit mine to 99 -> I get it trust me, I'd bot too, but it doesn't change the fact that its wrong. Botting is against the rules and provides an unfair advantage. End of story.

All bots affect runescape and its economy one way or another. Turning botting into a business to make cash on the side? Sure its a great idea, but remember its breaking the rules to turn a profit. Falls into the same boat as scamming, buying/selling gold etc.

Once again I AM NOT SAYING I AM AGAINST IT as that would make me a hypocrite, I'm just saying that its still against the rules so don't glamorize it as if it were the ok and legit thing to do.

 

[crazypipe]

LMFAO I can't believe what I'm reading. People are seriously trying to come up with a logical argument that botting doesn't hurt the economy and is a good thing?

Personally I don't care that people bot/cheat or w/e. Ultimately you play however you want to play. If I had a glitch to exploit damn right I would exploit it; I'm not going to say/try to convince myself and others its fair or right though. Obviously those of us who have lives aren't going to sit there and legit mine to 99 -> I get it trust me, I'd bot too, but it doesn't change the fact that its wrong. Botting is against the rules and provides an unfair advantage. End of story.

All bots affect runescape and its economy one way or another. Turning botting into a business to make cash on the side? Sure its a great idea, but remember its breaking the rules to turn a profit. Falls into the same boat as scamming, buying/selling gold etc.

Once again I AM NOT SAYING I AM AGAINST IT as that would make me a hypocrite, I'm just saying that its still against the rules so don't glamorize it as if it were the ok and legit thing to do.

1. Botting doesnt "fall on the same rules as scamming". Its kinda obvious, i wont explain, really...
2. What will u do when u have to buy gold at 4$ a mil like in 2008 or spend a huge amount of money to train a buyable skill?

 

[Abducted Sofa]

I agree with Punker on this one.

Anyone who was looking to make mass profit on the game, would not do so by staying at sorceress garden for 48 days straight.

If anything, anybody that would have done this has been saved by the botting community.

 

[joj0r]

i am botting to get my skills up and for money (not for selling, rsgp for my account)
i am not hurting the economy that much i guess

 

[Diversion]

It's unbelievable how much stupidity arises in one thread, botting ultimately defeats the purpose of a game; you should PLAY a game, not let a script play it for you. It's pathetic really, considering people play Runescape for sheer enjoyment, not to be surrounded by ignorance. When the bot nuke hit, and the major majority of bots were filtered from the game, I noticed the amount of conversation that was going on, it was almost as if a page was turned backward, and Runescape was once again enjoyable through that one occurrence. I neither disagree, or agree with bots on the whole, sure they turn a profit for those who want to earn money on the side, sure they lower the price of raw materials. But NONE of your points based around the pros of botting will take away from the fact that you're defeating the point of a game. If you have a so called life, LIVE IT, and play Runescape in your spare time.

 

[kmjt]

It's unbelievable how much stupidity arises in one thread, botting ultimately defeats the purpose of a game; you should PLAY a game, not let a script play it for you. It's pathetic really, considering people play Runescape for sheer enjoyment, not to be surrounded by ignorance. When the bot nuke hit, and the major majority of bots were filtered from the game, I noticed the amount of conversation that was going on, it was almost as if a page was turned backward, and Runescape was once again enjoyable through that one occurrence. I neither disagree, or agree with bots on the whole, sure they turn a profit for those who want to earn money on the side, sure they lower the price of raw materials. But NONE of your points based around the pros of botting will take away from the fact that you're defeating the point of a game. If you have a so called life, LIVE IT, and play Runescape in your spare time.

We do live our life, while botting runescape. By botting we don't have to waste our time on the game. I'm not going to try to justify botting because we all realize it does ruin the game in many ways. However it also improves the game for people in many ways. People can afford raw materials that at one point they couldn't. But for those who play for the actual gameplay such as slaying dragons I can see how seeing a bunch of bots would ruin their experience.

 

[Diversion]

We do live our life, while botting runescape. By botting we don't have to waste our time on the game. I'm not going to try to justify botting because we all realize it does ruin the game in many ways. However it also improves the game for people in many ways. People can afford raw materials that at one point they couldn't. But for those who play for the actual gameplay such as slaying dragons I can see how seeing a bunch of bots would ruin their experience.

I understand that the whole 'grind' aspect of the game is tedious, and boring. But that doesn't pull away from the fact that all these bots effect the gaming experience; for example, in the morning there's around 40k - or so players, no lag or disruptions, talkative crowds and so forth. When it comes to around 3PM (GMT) there's spike lag, and a dramatic increase of players (bots) this causes unworldly amounts of inconvenience for the average player. I have absolutely no problems at all with players that bot for their own benefit (skill wise.) On a single character, but these mass bot farms that clog, and hog all the good money making methods that are apart from PvM are just, excuse my language, fucking ridiculous.

 

[CM47CLARE]

They are okey in the short term, but sooner or later you will get banned from using them. Jagex has alot of wealth and is trying hard to remove all of the bots so sooner or later all the boters will probably get banned, thumbs up if you're not a boter!

 

[nodnarbusn]

I personally think botting is bullshit, i have done it in the past so i guess you could call me hypocritical or whatever regardless is realized the effect it has and decided to stop. Runescape is a GAME meant to be PLAYED by human players, botting for rsgp to sell for irl money is a bunch of bullshit IMO. I mean more power to the people making cash out of it and treating it like a business, but they ARE ruining the economy and ruining the game for other players. i mean its getting hard to even play anymore as far as slayer goes, i have to ban assignments based on where bots are. Its a game i just wish people would play it as opposed to having bots play for them. Making rsgp would be a hell of alot easier for people if bots didnt drive down the price to horrendous lows on all resources.

 

[XWX]

I personally think botting is bullshit, i have done it in the past so i guess you could call me hypocritical or whatever regardless is realized the effect it has and decided to stop. Runescape is a GAME meant to be PLAYED by human players, botting for rsgp to sell for irl money is a bunch of bullshit IMO. I mean more power to the people making cash out of it and treating it like a business, but they ARE ruining the economy and ruining the game for other players. i mean its getting hard to even play anymore as far as slayer goes, i have to ban assignments based on where bots are. Its a game i just wish people would play it as opposed to having bots play for them. Making rsgp would be a hell of alot easier for people if bots didnt drive down the price to horrendous lows on all resources.

Yeah it's the gold-farmers that give botting a bad name if you ask me. Macroing wasn't always for this purpose, infact you may ask any veteran who's been in the RS botting scene for a long time they'll tell you bots weren't designed for profiting gold up until this new wave of bots; RSBot, Powerbot, RSBuddy, Epic, Rare, blah blah... They've ruined it...

 

[B0mbs]

Bots are shit shit now, they barely work properly.

 

[Rune-Spy]

Well , botting is illegal , but Jagex ruined the game that much , people just bot

 

[in33dp1e]

You'd be making it far less profitable for any legitimate player trying to make some money on their own. Not to mention if a swarm a mindless bots are monopolizing a certain item/skill then why would legit players even want to attempt it?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize mass botting is ruining it for legitimate players. So actually, I absolutely disagree with everything you just wrote; it's very much incorrect.

Fair enough. However it also positively affects many legit players. Anyone who buys anything for consumption from the GE benefits from the masses of bots. ex. skillers maxing FM, PKers buying prayer pots, etc

Bots help players get the things that they need (and cannot produce/get themselves, ex. high level food, pots, etc) for a far cheaper price. Laws went from 150 to 250, trout FFS went from almost nothing to 70gp after the bot nuke. How is that better? You now have to get the fish yourself + cook it(with your low levels) instead of buying it and continuing to train.

Oh, and if you cannot beat a bot at getting resources.... that's sad. I can mine faster (with a lower level), cut wood faster, etc. Why? - because I'm far smarter than a bot and can deal with complex situations. #1 that bots cannot deal with - crowding. I see a bunch of players/bots - I go somewhere else. The bots/stupid players just stays there and loses XP & gp.

In summary, my opinion is bots are not 100% great, but they do have their good qualities.

 

[kmjt]

Well , botting is illegal , but Jagex ruined the game that much , people just bot

Botting isn't illegal. Breaking game rules =/= breaking law.

 

[Trent!]

Massive botting lowers the cost of raw materials, which, while making certain skills cheaper to train, or making it easier to buy certain items because of their low price, this causes real players who use those methods to make less profit per hour, meaning they are having to do more work, and spend more time to earn the same amount of GP. A perfect example, is Superglass Make with Mousekeys and Full bank. Before bot nuke, it was barely profitable, for the months after bot nuke until injection returned, it was easily 900-1500k an hour, every single day. As soon as injection bots returned, the profits plummeted. Now, it's barely even profitable. THAT'S what mass botting does to the game.

 

[Zerkeronrs7]

Nothing I stated was incorrect, champ. Do you see people mass botting arma, nex, bandos, corp, etc? Things that are the best profit.. Nope, you sure don't. Sure the things that are being botted aren't as much profit, but it doesn't take away from the game experience.. If people want to legitimately kill green dragons for the fun of killing dragons, then they can. It doesn't have to be profitable.. Nothing in the game has to be profitable; it just is.

You have to understand that people who want to make profit, still can. Bots aren't driving that away from them.. Sure, it's not as they may want it to be, but it's still very well there. Bots aren't making it where people can't play sorc garden, runecraft, etc. They actually make some of the things much cheaper.. I do realize some bots take up things such as green dragons.. That, I will give to you.. Anything other then that, what's your defense? People can't do it for money because bots do?

The game isn't about getting richer and richer from doing things like green dragons & sorc garden.

Not everyone makes their money from bosses and pvm, more people would make their money from other methods but now they can't because bots have wrecked them. Unless a money making method is quite hard and complex (bosses/pvp) chances are there's a bot for it.

 

[Trent!]

Well , botting is illegal , but Jagex ruined the game that much , people just bot

Botting is not illegal, however MAKING a bot client that loads RS to game RAM IS illegal. Meaning the developers of Powerbot, Epicbot, Rarebot, Runedream, or any other bot that has a minimizable client dowload that was specifically designed to load RS are breaking the DMCA, and could be arrested should Jagex take them to court.

 

[iJava]

Botting is not illegal, however MAKING a bot client that loads RS to game RAM IS illegal. Meaning the developers of Powerbot, Epicbot, Rarebot, Runedream, or any other bot that has a minimizable client dowload that was specifically designed to load RS are breaking the DMCA, and could be arrested should Jagex take them to court.

Sigh..... Do you know how RuneScape is currently loaded?

Rs2Applet.class(wrapper) decrypts inner.pack.gz using two AES keys then loads the client.class from there. These keys can be found under param 0 and -1. Now read this TOS :

THIS SOFTWARE IS ENCRYPTED AND ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO BREAK OR CIRCUMVENT THIS ENCRYPTION OR OTHERWISE INTERFERE WITH OR DISRUPT JAGEX LIMITED’S LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ITS SERVICES AND GAMES MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CIVIL AND/OR CRIMINAL LAWS.

So does this now explain the illegal part?

 

[Trent!]

Sigh..... Do you know how RuneScape is currently loaded?

Rs2Applet.class(wrapper) decrypts inner.pack.gz using two AES keys then loads the client.class from there. These keys can be found under param 0 and -1. Now read this TOS :

THIS SOFTWARE IS ENCRYPTED AND ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO BREAK OR CIRCUMVENT THIS ENCRYPTION OR OTHERWISE INTERFERE WITH OR DISRUPT JAGEX LIMITED’S LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ITS SERVICES AND GAMES MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CIVIL AND/OR CRIMINAL LAWS.

So does this now explain the illegal part?

Ever heard of WoW Glider? They were a client that loaded WoW to RAM, and this is what the courts statement was:

In this Circuit, the “copying” element may be proved in software cases by showing an unauthorized reproduction of a copyrighted software program in the computer user’s Random Access Memory (“RAM”). The Ninth Circuit has recognized that “the loading of software into the RAM creates a copy under the Copyright Act.” MAI Sys. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 991 F.2d 511, 519 (9th Cir. 1993), cert. dismissed 510 U.S. 1033 (1994); Triad Sys. Corp. v. Se. Express Co., 64 F.3d 1330, 1334 (9th Cir. 1995); see also Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp. v. Cablevision Sys. Corp., 478 F. Supp. 2d 607, 621 (S.D.N.Y. 2007) (agreeing with the “numerous courts [that] have held that the transmission of information through a computer’s random access memory or RAM . . . creates a ‘copy’ for purposes of the Copyright Act,” and citing cases.) When such a copy is made in excess of a license, the copier is liable for copyright infringement. Ticketmaster LLC v. RMG Techs., Inc., 507 F. Supp. 2d 1096, 1107 (C.D. Cal. 2007) (‘“When a licensee exceeds the scope of the license granted by the copyright holder, the licensee is liable for infringement.”’ (citation omitted)).

For those who are saying TL;DR, basically it's stating that since the client that loads RS into it, additionally loads copies of Runescape into RAM, which is a violation of the DMCA if the owner of the copyright has not legally given the permission to be doing so.

 

[Grrr]

Ever heard of WoW Glider? They were a client that loaded WoW to RAM, and this is what the courts statement was:




For those who are saying TL;DR, basically it's stating that since the client that loads RS into it, additionally loads copies of Runescape into RAM, which is a violation of the DMCA if the owner of the copyright has not legally given the permission to be doing so.

Yeah, you are totally right. At the end of the day you are manipulating their code without any permission whatsoever. Ultimately their game is being damaged because of this, bots do have an extremely negative effect on the game and I think it's going to be really interesting to see if Jagex try and move on new bot creators in a court of law.