Would like staff input

[Dave]

Let me start by saying Collin and I are friends. He isn't a scammer, neither am I. Neither of us want anyone banned from this because no one has scammed anyone, we just want a discussion and a formal decision on what to do in this matter.

[1:05:43 AM] Dave - Sythe Staff: So Collin and I did a trade of RSGP for $1250, however the instant I took the gold, I was reset and as a gold buyer, I took the loss. Collin understood that I didn't have that kind of money laying around, and told me he trusted I'd pay him so he said pay overtime he doesn't care how long it takes. I periodically sent him various amounts of anything from $50-$200 and he was perfectly content with the payments. Throughout this time, Collin and I had agreed that I would make him 2 maxed staking boxing accounts each being valued at $250 ($500 total) including 99 str, attack, def, hp, and 80 dung for a chaotic weapon. I had created these accounts (for the most part) however Collin came to me at one point and told me he was no longer interested in the accounts. He told me that I could just keep the accounts and sell them and continue paying him over time in cash, and he'll remove $50 from the overall debt. Keep in mind this initially was going to take $500 off. At the time, I told him I'll just sell the accounts as is and it's fine but he has to understand that I cannot pay quickly and it will take time. Once again he said it was fine, he trusts I'll pay, take my time. This was all about a year ago. However, I spoke to a friend who basically told me I got screwed because I held my end of the deal 100% by creating the accounts but he just no longer wanted them. I'm asking is it fair of to me give him the accounts now, and remove some money from the debt. The accounts in current day value are $80-$100 ea, which is what I'd value them as. He would be free to sell them, and I could even sell them for him seeing as I'm the original owner, but I'm asking this because the way I see it, is it's extremely unfair that I basically lost $450 because at the time, he was no longer interested in a deal he proposed. I'm fully aware that I agreed to the new proposition, but I didn't really understand what I had "given up" up until I was explained in more detail by a friend. Let it be noted that I still owe Collin $263.

Basically, the proposal/what I'm asking is it it fair/right/ok of me to say that I owe Collin $200 less and give him the accounts (again I can sell them for him if he wants). Keep in mind this is still $250 less than what I was supposed to receive for these accounts.

My defense is that I did everything he asked. I made the accounts, I made them the way he wanted, and in a very good time frame which he presented me with. Then, about a week and a half before EoC was released, Collin informed me he was no longer interested in the accounts. Long story short, he sold me that he'll remove $50 from the overall debt as compensation for my work. I hadn't realized at the time, but the account was HEAVILY devalued because of the already announced EoC release. I however said it was fine I'll just try to keep working off paying the debt. I believe the removal of $200 is in order because $50 isn't enough to compensate for the work I put in on the accounts not to mention he told me he was no longer interested after the accounts were nearly completed and had already been insanely devalued because of the EoC release.

His defense is that I shouldn't have agreed. I should have argued this before a year had passed. Now that the time has passed, I can no longer argue my case.

The reason I believe this is unfair is because regardless of the amount of time, I indeed completed the work he told me to do, I put in hours of botting, setting up and managing and babysitting the bot, getting supplies to run the bot, creating the accounts, etc.


Again, the final proposal is that I remove $200 from the debt and pay him that remaining $60 right then and there. I will then sell the two accounts to the best of my ability, and immediately pay him whatever amount of money comes in for the two accounts, regardless of whether it's $50 or $250, the money is his because the accounts are his.

Would really like some staff input. Please feel free to ask me any questions. I will also do my best to relay any of Collin's messages to you guys, he has a Sythe account so he will be doing his best to send messages towards this report as well.

Collin also wants the relevant dates to be posted.

Initial trade - August 28th 2012
Request to make the accounts - Early Sept - exact date unsure
First Payment $$ Wise - $200 - Oct 28th 2012
Cancellation of account deal - Nov 6th, after the confirmed release of EoC but before the actual EoC was released. - $50 removed for my "trouble"
Next payment - Done through a RS Friend's Chat for gambling - $250 - date unclear
Next payment - $150 - Feb 9th 2013
Next payment - $100 - March 12th 2013
Next payment - $97 - June 17th 2013
Next Payment - $50 - Nov 8th 2013 - Also discussed costs that were initially taken for the creation of the accounts which amounted to $90. Those costs were initially meant to be endured by Collin because he was the one who wanted the accounts made. After these deductions, it has come to a final amount left to be paid as

$263.

Again, the solution I want is that he takes the account which should be his. I'm saying this because similarly to my situation, as the buyer, I took the fall for the hit of $1250. As a buyer, he should be taking responsibility for the accounts, they are his. I'm also not asking for the full $500 because I was an idiot for saying I was OK with the $50 hassle fee, but I realized that it was horribly unfair so what I'm basically requesting is a split of the costs. $50 has already been given for the hassle, but I want the accounts to be his, as they should be, and I'm asking for $200 to be removed, not $500. That way, each of us is giving $250 for the accounts. Also, as the original owner, I'm going to sell the accounts for him and send him the money, so if the accounts do sell for ~~ $100 per (their approx market value) then the money is being sent to him anyways and he's getting the payment regardless.

Edit: Just want to clarify I believe there are three fair options.

1. The option where I sell the accs for him, pay him what he gets, and $200 is removed.
2. Nothing changes, I said what I said and that's that.
3. He owes me the full $500 ($50 has been removed so $450 leftover) and should owe me $190.

So it would stand at $263-$200 and I'll pay the $63 once this is all handled.

If staff makes the decision that I'm fully in the wrong and the split is an unfair request to make, Collin and I will go back to our payment plan.

Thank you for your time.

 

[runescapegoldsales]

Over a year ago, August 28th 2012, I sold Dave $1250 worth of runescape gold. The next day (NOT IMMEDIATELY according to his post.) Dave was rolled back so instead of receiving the payment in full I allowed him to pay it over time because he didn’t have enough money. 2 months later he made a payment of $200. In September of 2012 I agreed to have Dave train me 2 maxed boxing accounts to help pay off the remaining $1050. November 6th I decided to quit staking and actually have a life so I asked Dave if it was ok that I didn’t buy the accounts anymore and give him $50 for the hassle with it and he said that was fine and agreed, the $50 was not a reimbursement of his initial $90 startup fee in the making of the accounts, it was simply an inconvenience and! After a few months he convinces me to buy a rank in a well-known fc knowing he could save another $250 by me buying a rank since he was the co-owner. I paid the owner 1b and deducted $250 from Dave’s payment, this was around January. Also I had a skype call with Dave and Corey just to make sure everything is going good and to let a global aware of the situation and at that point in time the $50 was a none issue. This was early 2013. Dave continued by paying $100 on March 12th, $96.33 on Jun 17th, and $50 today, even though they were small payments I knew I would eventually receive the entire amount over time, or so I thought. So as of today he owes me $353. He talked with N4N0 on this and the $50 was there just for the INCOVINEIENCE and had nothing to do with the initial investment of $90 http://puu.sh/5d5kF/08bfc0cd01.png. But just from getting that confirmation from N4N0 he entirely neglected to add that to his primary post on sythe because he says it is a “non-issue” so he didn’t even add that to his post http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?p=12921625#post12921625. I think it is extremely unprofessional for a moderator to change their mind on something they agreed to and change their mind OVER A YEAR LATER! Also by me saying that I don’t want the accounts he plays it off as if he loses $500. Which he doesn’t, the accounts were 3/4 of the way complete anyway. So now he is here bringing up this problem we agreed to A YEAR LATER. This all could have been avoided if he didn’t bite off more than he can chew when it came to buying gp. And the fact that he neglected to add the $90 into his post because it was a "non-issue" is complete bullshit.
What I Simply ask of him is to continue with the payments on the $353 that he rightfully owes me because we agreed to this over a year ago.

 

I have forwarded this thread to Dave.

 

By agreeing to take the accounts a repayment deal was made, I don't think it's fair that it can be changed as and when - a deal's a deal.

1. The option where I sell the accs for him, pay him what he gets, and $200 is removed.

For your time and trouble setting them up I believe this is fair.

 

[Corey]

Option 1.

I remember talking to him like a year ago on teamspeak when he reported this to me (correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure this is the same case), and he seemingly had no problems. I don't think its fair that he changed his mind about the accounts, so I think option 1 is the most suitable.

 

[runescapegoldsales]

Roary - In regards to your post on Dave's thread you are contradicting yourself, a deal isn't a deal when both parties decide it's no longer a deal. What we did last year was exactly that, I gave him $50 and he was fine with it and we continued on the payments. A deal was a deal there. he can't change his mind like he is now.
Corey - The 3 way conversation we had had nothing to do with this, all that I wanted to do in that call was to spread awareness to a global and make sure Dave would repay me within a reasonable time frame

 

[Dave]

Option 1.

I remember talking to him like a year ago on teamspeak when he reported this to me (correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure this is the same case), and he seemingly had no problems. I don't think its fair that he changed his mind about the accounts, so I think option 1 is the most suitable.

This is indeed the same case. Also, he believes some of my post is bias so he's going to post something as well, I don't want anything finalized until he's posted.

Thanks for the input so far guys

 

[Dave]

All I really have to say about your post Collin is this -

Yes, I admit it was unprofessional of me, I am openly admitting to my stupidity and faults, but also I'd like you to own up to yours, and this is partially what all of htis is about. I made the accounts for you, just as you asked, however you aren't taking the responsibility of what should be yours. I did that and took the responsibility for $1250, you're only doing it for 1/2 of your $500, I'd say this is more than fair.

As for that $90, that's a different story. That's money that I put in, on my own accord to make accounts for YOU. You can't expect me to put money into a project for you and then not get fully compensated for that. You argue that I created the accounts anyways and I would have done so which is false. I can happily show that my dung account shop has one of two types of accounts and one outliar account. There's dung pures which are based off of the 14-day trial, there's the two mains (which are yours) and one account which was given a membership by a friend which I botted for an extra month (the account with 93 dung).

I never put startup costs into my accounts, I only did that for you, so that $90 should be covered by you, it's absolutely unfair to claim that my "$50 hassle fee" covers that $90.

The $90 is a separate entity, so what I'm requesting is the split fee to be $250 from each of us. That's deducting the $50 you "took off" earlier and that leaves $200 to be removed.

 

[Corey]

Corey - The 3 way conversation we had had nothing to do with this, all that I wanted to do in that call was to spread awareness to a global and make sure Dave would repay me within a reasonable time frame

Please don't make things up, YOU did not want to do the call to spread awareness, rather I REQUESTED the call because I wanted to make sure everything was ok on your end and that Dave wasn't pulling a fast one on me with a BS story (no offense Dave). In that call you basically told me everything was fine and not to worry about the PM you sent me because you two were sorting it out, if I recall correctly. I had the call recorded but I deleted it right after because you said that everything was fine.

My opinion stands. Dave, get this sorted quickly please, as its been long enough.

 

[runescapegoldsales]

Dave's post because I am unable to quote it on his thread-
"My defense is that I did everything he asked. I made the accounts, I made them the way he wanted, and in a very good time frame which he presented me with. Then, about a week and a half before EoC was released, Collin informed me he was no longer interested in the accounts. Long story short, he sold me that he'll remove $50 from the overall debt as compensation for my work. I hadn't realized at the time, but the account was HEAVILY devalued because of the already announced EoC release. I however said it was fine I'll just try to keep working off paying the debt. I believe the removal of $200 is in order because $50 isn't enough to compensate for the work I put in on the accounts not to mention he told me he was no longer interested after the accounts were nearly completed and had already been insanely devalued because of the EoC release."

In this post Dave plays it off as if the moment I didn't want the accounts, the value of them went from $500 to $0, with the $50 payment I made I assumed the the value of them went from $500 to $450 and he and I both thought that was a fair price and we both agreed. WE BOTH AGREED. Only now you change your mind a year later because you were never able to sell the accounts. It is your fault take responsibility for your actions. By agreeing that the $50 should be deducted for the depreciation of the accounts
"I don't think it's fair that it can be changed as and when - a deal's a deal." as Roary would say.

Option 1
I should be paid the full $353 because Dave AGREED on the fact that it was ok I give him $50 to handle the account hassle. This account hassle was there not to cover the cost of the account creation, not to cover the time creating the accounts or anything. It was just there as an inconvenience payment, but none of that is relevant because he agreed! The fact that he agreed and then brings this up over A YEAR LATER is so ridiculously. We all make stupid choices, but you can’t go back on a deal.

Option 2
I should have the $50 deducted from the $90 so it will be -$40 for everything you put into the accounts, so that would be $303 that is owed to me. The marginal cost, accounting wise, on the creation of the 2 accounts were $45 each. What I am offering here is to cover the creation of BOTH accounts. Even though neither of the accounts were created

Option 3(Dave’s option 1)
“The option where I sell the accs for him, pay him what he gets, and $200 is removed.” and in this post it is implied that the $90 be taken out, which I am fine with, except the $50 should be added to it, so in the end it will be $103 + price both accounts sold for. But the problem with this is he waited so long to bring it up that the accounts are devalued tremendously and that is HIS FAULT FOR WAITING SO LONG TO BRING THIS UP.

Option 4
Have me pay Dave $500 out of pocket to cover everything, because I have no credibility on sythe and Dave is a moderator.

Corey – yes I was wrong, the reason I messaged you was to make sure that a global mod was aware of the situation. It was your idea to have the 3 way chat and "Wanted to make sure everything was ok on your end and that Dave wasn't pulling a fast one on me with a BS story (no offense Dave)." And Dave IS pulling a fast one right now! what is going on right now was never brought up in the 3 way chat. The reason I messaged you was to see what the rule was with owing people money because at the time he owed me $750 more.

I believe that the most fair option is option 2, this is because Dave did agree to the cancellation of the making of the accounts. I am offering to pay for the membership and the gold used for the start up on these accounts. which is $90 and the $50 can go towards that because it had no "real" use.

 

[Dave]

Corey, if the staff verdict is final, I will pay Collin the $63 and close this report and create the separate topic for his two accounts, just give me the go.

 

[Corey]

I'll leave it to Roary, as he left his opinion first and so I'll let him handle the case.

I've stated my opinion, however.

 

You agreed on accounts, and as you say "But the problem with this is he waited so long to bring it up that the accounts are devalued tremendously" - but did you not wait until you realised they would, as EoC was coming, before you told Dave you didn't want them? That means you, in your words, pulled a fast one when Dave had already started to make the accounts using his time and effort to do so. You left it until everyone had caught on to what was happening with accounts, so obviously Dave would then struggle to sell them.

The time he waited to dispute this isn't really relevant, he's still been paying you meanwhile. Whether he brought this up then or now the outcome wouldn't really have differed much at all.

To comment on your option #4 - I could care less whether Dave is staff or not in this situation - anyone who's put time in to something which was agreed upon should receive what they are due unless you said to him you may or may not want the accounts and that it was at his own risk. You agreed to take them.

To clarify; 200$ is to be deducted from the total price and Colin will receive the selling price for each account.

 

[Dave]

http://puu.sh/5fZmR/5acbd51bdb.png

Proof of final payment (cropped to hide his last name)

and I'm making the acc sales topic now.