Women's Suffrage

[Darkgroove]

For hundreds of years, women have been fighting for their rights. They only recently have been given these rights.

Do you think that women's suffrage is a good thing? Discuss.

 

[Mr impossible]

I'm for woman suffrage.
I think everyone in the world should have 100% freedom.

 

[skysill]

Of course!

No-one should have less rights just because they are born female instead of male. Your actions should define who you are, not who you were born as.

 

[FG4]

As a woman, I'm obviously for woman's suffrage...

 

[MatthewGor123]

As a woman, I'm obviously for woman's suffrage...

Not all women are pro-woman's suffrage...some feel they NEED to be subordinate. But anyways...
Sure, women deserve the same rights to vote as men, since they are able to make equally rational [or irrational, in the case of this election :S] decisions. Why wouldn't they?

 

[antchak]

I see no difference between men and women as far as they right to freedom. Why the fuck should a woman not deserve her rights? So yea I'm pro suffrage.

 

I'm for woman suffrage.
I think everyone in the world should have 100% freedom.

How is the right to vote freedom?

Democracy is just mob rule. A democracy is majority tyranny over minorities. Democracy is a form of slavery. A lynch mob is a democracy.

Do you support the idea that the law can be anything, so long as it is held in majority? Killing jews? Keeping slaves? War, theft, murder, invasion, genocide, nuclear war?

There is nothing special about democracy.

 

[antchak]

How is the right to vote freedom?

Democracy is just mob rule. A democracy is majority tyranny over minorities. Democracy is a form of slavery. A lynch mob is a democracy.

Do you support the idea that the law can be anything, so long as it is held in majority? Killing jews? Keeping slaves? War, theft, murder, invasion, genocide, nuclear war?

There is nothing special about democracy.

It is easy to complain about the system; what do you propose?

A democracy is a majority but that is not necessarily tyranny. It is closest anyone will ever get to fair.

I don't recall him saying he did support majority for any of those things. In fact I don't recall him saying he supported democracy. Your point was completely irrelevant and out of the blue.

 

[MatthewGor123]

I don't recall him saying he did support majority for any of those things. In fact I don't recall him saying he supported democracy. Your point was completely irrelevant and out of the blue.

Suffrage is only about the right to vote...AKA, participate in a democratic form of government.

The right or chance to vote, express an opinion or participate in a decision

 

[antchak]

Suffrage is only about the right to vote...

I realize that, but he did say he supports 100% freedom. He did not say he supported democracy as a system, he said women should have the right to vote. He also did not say he supported majority rule, he said he supported women being allowed to vote. And I know what suffrage means, or I wouldn't reply for risk of sounding like a dumbass.

 

[MatthewGor123]

I realize that, but he did say he supports 100% freedom. He did not say he supported democracy as a system, he said women should have the right to vote. He also did not say he supported majority rule, he said he supported women being allowed to vote. And I know what suffrage means, or I wouldn't reply for risk of sounding like a dumbass.

Under what circumstances, other than democracy, would women have to fight for the rights to vote?

 

[antchak]

Under what circumstances, other than democracy, would women have to fight for the rights to vote?

That is irrelevant. I can support womens equality (by voting) and not support democracy. You can support suffrage for the purpose of women being equal, and still dislike the system.

 

[MatthewGor123]

That is irrelevant. I can support womens equality (by voting) and not support democracy. You can support suffrage for the purpose of women being equal, and still dislike the system.

I agree But should being equal in a pseudo-democratic society really inspire a movement/revolution? I think this thread is asking about whether or not you agree with the movement, rather than the right to vote. Either way, I don't think this can really be much of a debate.

 

[Shin]

I agree with Woman's Suffrage for everyone is stated to be equal, and Woman should be shown the same rights as Men.

Woman's Suffrage -> Freedom -> Voting
-That's where the Voting aspect arose from.

 

[antchak]

I agree But should being equal in a pseudo-democratic society really inspire a movement/revolution? I think this thread is asking about whether or not you agree with the movement, rather than the right to vote. Either way, I don't think this can really be much of a debate.

Yes your correct, I suppose I'm worrying about semantics. I do support the movement of equality.

 

[MatthewGor123]

I agree with Woman's Suffrage for everyone is stated to be equal, and Woman should be shown the same rights as Men.

Woman's Suffrage -> Freedom -> Voting
-That's where the Voting aspect arose from.

Ehh, if anything, it goes:
"Partial Democracy (only rich white men) -> More democracy (black vote -- 15th ammendment, 1870, but not fully enforced) --> Women voting (1878) --> Everyone being equal --> Everyone being equally free.

But does having the right to VOTE really lead to EQUALITY?

 

[antchak]

Ehh, if anything, it goes:
"Partial Democracy (only rich white men) -> More democracy (black vote -- 15th ammendment, 1870, but not fully enforced) --> Women voting (1878) --> Everyone being equal --> Everyone being equally free.

But does having the right to VOTE really lead to EQUALITY?

It is more complicated, of course, going back to 594 B.C, and progressing. But yea that's basically it. No one will ever be "free" but we're damn close and I don't think we will get much closer.

 

It is easy to complain about the system; what do you propose?

The rule of law.

A democracy is a majority but that is not necessarily tyranny. It is closest anyone will ever get to fair.

It is exactly tyranny. Constitutional republics are supposed to be limited democracies, wherein people can vote only to the extent that they vote on matters which don't infringe individual rights. But empirically, history has shown that when you establish any democracy it becomes unlimited democracy in only a few short generations. Therefore in order to avoid tyranny one cannot have democracy.

I don't recall him saying he did support majority for any of those things. In fact I don't recall him saying he supported democracy. Your point was completely irrelevant and out of the blue.

As someone has already pointed out, the right to vote (suffrage) is exclusive to democracy.


Democracy, as I have pointed out, is mob rule. A lynch mob is a valid democracy. As long as 51% agree then anyone can be subject to any conditions regardless of human rights and property rights.

If 51% agree to abolish private property, then mass theft ensues.
If 51% agree that jews have not the right to live, then genocide ensues.
If 51% agree to invade Iraq, then a war ensues.
If 51% agree that blacks should be slaves, then slavery ensues.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you build a centralized authority under the control of the majority, it will be used for evil.

 

[antchak]

The rule of law.

Democracy is not a lawless "majority runs the country" system, don't act like it is.

It is exactly tyranny. Constitutional republics are supposed to be limited democracies, wherein people can vote only to the extent that they vote on matters which don't infringe individual rights. But empirically, history has shown that when you establish any democracy it becomes unlimited democracy in only a few short generations. Therefore in order to avoid tyranny one cannot have democracy.

I'm sorry but you are nit picking. If you can't live with it, then move to a socialist/communist country. Enjoy yourself.

As someone has already pointed out, the right to vote (suffrage) is exclusive to democracy.

And as I pointed out, if you had read, that you do not need to support democracy to support suffrage. I can support suffrage just for the sake of womens equality, which I do. This is completely indifferent to my feelings to the system. Perhaps you missed that.

Democracy, as I have pointed out, is mob rule. A lynch mob is a valid democracy. As long as 51% agree then anyone can be subject to any conditions regardless of human rights and property rights.

If 51% agree to abolish private property, then mass theft ensues.
If 51% agree that jews have not the right to live, then genocide ensues.
If 51% agree to invade Iraq, then a war ensues.
If 51% agree that blacks should be slaves, then slavery ensues.

This is untrue. Democracy's "majority rule" is only utilized for voting. I have no idea where you got the notion that if 51% of the country wanted to invade ____ country, it would happen. That's ridiculous.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you build a centralized authority under the control of the majority, it will be used for evil.

Yes, because 51% of the population is in league together, and they are all going to use that weight to take over the world. Very well thought out.

Absolute power is called a dictatorship. Democracy is the absolute opposite.

 

[MatthewGor123]

The rule of law.

Who do you propose would enforce these laws? Or create them? I'm not really too familiar with the rule of law, except for that it's basically a system where everybody conforms to the laws.