Wikileaks debate.

[uselesspoop]

it's not always good to know the truth, now diplomatic relations are being destroyed...

yet it's good too, at least we know the complete truth, sigh, politics, fuck it.

 

[Oxytocin]

lol i must have been trolling... or really stoned... or both.

why did i post that video lol.

 

[green_gp]

We as Americans should know what out government is doing.

Other countries should have a idea also.

When you have so many secretes bundled up and elected a dumb ass president that promised a better job market and so on and lied, something was going to be leaked in mass's. I hope there is alot more juicy stuff


I been hearing there is some stuff on Area 51 that could possibly be leaked can't wait.

Also I love seeing Visa/Master card/Paypal go down. They are all ripping us off with crazy fee's, interested rates. I can't wait till they hit insurance's and college's next.

 

[Trinity19]

We as Americans should know what out government is doing.

Other countries should have a idea also.

When you have so many secretes bundled up and elected a dumb ass president that promised a better job market and so on and lied, something was going to be leaked in mass's. I hope there is alot more juicy stuff


I been hearing there is some stuff on Area 51 that could possibly be leaked can't wait.

Also I love seeing Visa/Master card/Paypal go down. They are all ripping us off with crazy fee's, interested rates. I can't wait till they hit insurance's and college's next.

ok

1.) We shouldn't have access to so much information, one this puts lives at danger if anyone was involved in something that was classified and two, there's a reason it's classified. I'm sure there's things in your life that you want to keep secret and if everyone knew everything about you and your thoughts and all then relationships would probably turn sour. Same aspect goes for the government. We bitch and bitch about wanting to know more about what they do but what we don't realize is that it's protecting us and is also to stop us from overreacting over the simplest matter. We shouldn't know military plans, we shouldn't know covert operations, we shouldn't know every damn secret because what would we possibly do with this information? Absolutely nothing, we want to know it for the pure sake of knowing it not to provide any aid whatsoever.

2.) Visa/Mastercard/Paypal are all businesses and ofcourse as most businesses do, they need to make money on their own. You aren't being forced to use their services, you choose to.

 

[Tmoe]

Bad.

It's good for the people to know about their government, on things they need to know. Not about government operations, who's doing them, and so forth.

Wikileaks has put thousand's of peoples lives in danger and needs to be taken down.. (if it hasn't been already.)

 

[pure skillzz]

Bad.

It's good for the people to know about their government, on things they need to know. Not about government operations, who's doing them, and so forth.

Wikileaks has put thousand's of peoples lives in danger and needs to be taken down.. (if it hasn't been already.)

Bad? It's funny how people say things about this guy such as:

Rush Limbaugh "Back in the old days when men were men and countries were countries, this guy would die of lead poisoning from a bullet in the brain..."

Glenn Beck said that Julian Assange should be tried for treason and executed

Peter King, Congressman, wants Wikileaks designated a terrorist organization.

Terrorist organization? Executed? There calling him a murder for pointing out the true murderers. He's the terrorist for revealing the true terrorist. That's like saying the person who witnessed a murder is the murderer. What kind of non sense is that?

 

[The Riddler_]

Bad.

It's good for the people to know about their government, on things they need to know. Not about government operations, who's doing them, and so forth.

Wikileaks has put thousand's of peoples lives in danger and needs to be taken down.. (if it hasn't been already.)

Who put them in the situation?


I agree with Wikileaks. Governments may be in turmoil afterward, but if they weren't corrupt to begin with; there would be nothing to hide. Apparently, every government has something to hide. With the exception to Ecuador.

 

[Trinity19]

Who put them in the situation?


I agree with Wikileaks. Governments may be in turmoil afterward, but if they weren't corrupt to begin with; there would be nothing to hide. Apparently, every government has something to hide. With the exception to Ecuador.

Ofcourse governments have something to hide lol. Not everything is made public because not everything is made to be public.
It doesn't mean the government is corrupt, far from it. It means that it's atleast functioning like a government. What your asking for is a more lord of the flies situation where anything and everything is open to public domain and thats not always the best option.

Your agreeing with Governments being in turmoil afterwards, but you do understand that the bonds which hold us are our governments correct? If we were left to govern ourselves well...we tried that in the united states in the beginning and look what happened...we centralized pretty damn fast.

EDIT:
Can anyone actually give a reasonable and logical reasoning towards the people knowing everything and anything about the government and it's operations? Besides 'we have the right to' i mean an actual thought out reason for us to know. What would we possibly do with this information?

 

[Sanctuary]

On the news it said he was charged with, "surprise sex", but not "rape"? Anyone hear that too?

 

[xook]

Bad

The US Goverment will probably "get rid" of the founder of wikileaks..

 

[The Riddler_]

Ofcourse governments have something to hide lol. Not everything is made public because not everything is made to be public.
It doesn't mean the government is corrupt, far from it. It means that it's atleast functioning like a government. What your asking for is a more lord of the flies situation where anything and everything is open to public domain and thats not always the best option.

If the government needs to censor Wikileaks by cutting off their financial needs, they are trying to cover something up that is malicious. Governmental secrets to keep the public from overreacting to small incidents is understandable. But covering up murders and forign negotiations is different.

Your agreeing with Governments being in turmoil afterwards, but you do understand that the bonds which hold us are our governments correct? If we were left to govern ourselves well...we tried that in the united states in the beginning and look what happened...we centralized pretty damn fast.

The government put this on themselves for having skeletons in their closets.

Can anyone actually give a reasonable and logical reasoning towards the people knowing everything and anything about the government and it's operations? Besides 'we have the right to' i mean an actual thought out reason for us to know. What would we possibly do with this information?

In order for the people to make sure the government is not doing illegal/immoral they must know what the government actually does. Without the knowledge, we might as well be the people from The Village and have the government(elders) run everything and put all trust in them.

 

[Trinity19]

If the government needs to censor Wikileaks by cutting off their financial needs, they are trying to cover something up that is malicious. Governmental secrets to keep the public from overreacting to small incidents is understandable. But covering up murders and forign negotiations is different.

Murders are one thing, I can possibly understand why people would want to have that revealed. The only thing is, sometimes murders have justifiable causes, maybe the act itself isn't justified but we can see the need based on the underlying fact. But releasing these would put people's lives in danger and that is a problem.
Foreign negotiations are none of our concern, we can't do anything about it so it's pointless to know. The only thing we could do is hinder the progress.

The government put this on themselves for having skeletons in their closets.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet, and as the government is an embodiment of the people it represents ( and let's face it, it does) then ofcourse it would as well. Simply having secrets isn't a reason to say they brought it upon themselves, as i've stated before if secrets are so taboo why doesn't everyone make their entire lives public to everyone? Then we'll have the kind of society people want i suppose.

In order for the people to make sure the government is not doing illegal/immoral they must know what the government actually does. Without the knowledge, we might as well be the people from The Village and have the government(elders) run everything and put all trust in them.

Illegal is determined by the government itself so in a simple matter their not doing anything, and immoral is hard to justify since morals are subjective with each individual.
The only problem with that analogy is that in The Village the Elders withdrew them from the entire outside world, when our government does not do that, we have all the resources and connections at our disposal. The things we don't have the availability to is the subjects that we have no control over whatsoever.

 

[The Disturbed]

This is both bad and good. Good in the sense that the lies we've been suspecting have been proven and the government is left speechless. It is bad because it is going to cause net neutrality proposed by the government due to citizen rebellion against Wikileaks. They will say that this only proves the need for net neutrality. It is also going to impair international relations with the United States and other countries. Rebellion may emerge in context with many other upcoming events, and current radical revolutionaries will see it as an opportunity to start seizing control. Call me crazy, call me an idiot, but if I am then you guys can contact me in two years and call me it again.

 

[The Riddler_]

Murders are one thing, I can possibly understand why people would want to have that revealed. The only thing is, sometimes murders have justifiable causes, maybe the act itself isn't justified but we can see the need based on the underlying fact. But releasing these would put people's lives in danger and that is a problem.
Foreign negotiations are none of our concern, we can't do anything about it so it's pointless to know. The only thing we could do is hinder the progress.

Was the murder of a dozen people by the flying Apache justified? Were they right in trying to cover up the murder to act like it didn't happen? This information would have never gotten out. Killing innocent civilians is not something i'd like my government to do.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet, and as the government is an embodiment of the people it represents ( and let's face it, it does) then ofcourse it would as well. Simply having secrets isn't a reason to say they brought it upon themselves

There are two types of secrets. Secrets that do not mean a thing but to the people involved. And there are secrets that are plans of malicious activity. You are trying to justify all secrets.

as i've stated before if secrets are so taboo why doesn't everyone make their entire lives public to everyone? Then we'll have the kind of society people want i suppose.

So the US should be like China and act as if the Democratic riots in Tienanmen Square didn't happen? Keep it a secret from future generations to make them look like the perfect little society?

Illegal is determined by the government itself so in a simple matter their not doing anything

All things government does is not legal...that is why there are impeachments...

The only problem with that analogy is that in The Village the Elders withdrew them from the entire outside world, when our government does not do that, we have all the resources and connections at our disposal. The things we don't have the availability to is the subjects that we have no control over whatsoever.

The Elders in the Village did what they thought was right for the people in their village. There relationship is of a herder and sheep. The government does not need to think for me. I am my own person. Hiding information is them trying to keep you from questioning the corrupted government.

 

[Trinity19]

Was the murder of a dozen people by the flying Apache justified? Were they right in trying to cover up the murder to act like it didn't happen? This information would have never gotten out. Killing innocent civilians is not something i'd like my government to do.

Actually it was justified, the civilians in that shooting were lost due to the previous activity in that area, another unit was previously shot at and had to disengage and retreat from the area. So seeing people that may be possibly "armed" and may be a possible danger is something that shouldn't be taken likely. As well there were also sights of RPG's that were found to be exactly that.

There are two types of secrets. Secrets that do not mean a thing but to the people involved. And there are secrets that are plans of malicious activity. You are trying to justify all secrets.

Plans of malicious activity? I highly doubt they are anything of the sort. There secrets based upon the safety of the country and whether they play a small part or a large part they are equally important and allowed anonymity , and also if revealed would put lives in danger and severely hinder any plans for the future. What people don't realize is the government isn't hiding things as much from us as they are from our competitors and our enemies who upon which of finding out some of our secrets would be kinda pissed off.

So the US should be like China and act as if the Democratic riots in Tienanmen Square didn't happen? Keep it a secret from future generations to make them look like the perfect little society?

Obviously it's not a secret because everyone knows about it and most likely people will find out no matter how much they cover it up. But I'm not saying that, we have a generally good idea about everything that goes on except the things that are to important for us to comprehend or even help with. Do we know about the civil rights movement and Martin Luther King jr.? Yes we do, do we know about our actions in Vietnam? Do we know about important scandals in our government? (Watergate for example) Yes we do. Our government gives us a hell of alot of information that people take for granted because they think to much that their entitled to information when in reality were not.

The Elders in the Village did what they thought was right for the people in their village. There relationship is of a herder and sheep. The government does not need to think for me. I am my own person. Hiding information is them trying to keep you from questioning the corrupted government.

They're at a different extreme then the united states and is a completely unfair analogy to one another. Yes you are your own person and the government doesn't do thinking for you that is why were allowed to question our government, but being corrupt and hiding information is far from the truth. The coke recipe is a secret to, why don't you get mad at them for not giving the people their entitled information?

 

[The Riddler_]

Actually it was justified, the civilians in that shooting were lost due to the previous activity in that area, another unit was previously shot at and had to disengage and retreat from the area. So seeing people that may be possibly "armed" and may be a possible danger is something that shouldn't be taken likely. As well there were also sights of RPG's that were found to be exactly that.

The people were casually walking around the area. The assumed "RPG" was a camera that they didn't care to make sure of. And the gunmen were ready to kill the civilians with or without confirmation of them being possible combatants. All they wanted was a green light. And this was never publicized. 2 Reporters dead. They covered it up.

Plans of malicious activity? I highly doubt they are anything of the sort. There secrets based upon the safety of the country and whether they play a small part or a large part they are equally important and allowed anonymity , and also if revealed would put lives in danger and severely hinder any plans for the future. What people don't realize is the government isn't hiding things as much from us as they are from our competitors and our enemies who upon which of finding out some of our secrets would be kinda pissed off.

As if the only thing the US is worried about is embarrassment from the cables being leaked.

Do we know about important scandals in our government? (Watergate for example) Yes we do. Our government gives us a hell of alot of information that people take for granted because they think to much that their entitled to information when in reality were not.

You act as if I said the government hides everything they do and tells the public nothing. Not all government officials are corrupt, but those that are, tend to hide things. For example, Nixon in Watergate.

The coke recipe is a secret to, why don't you get mad at them for not giving the people their entitled information?

Because i'm not forced to drink coke.

 

[The Riddler_]

Actually it was justified, the civilians in that shooting were lost due to the previous activity in that area, another unit was previously shot at and had to disengage and retreat from the area. So seeing people that may be possibly "armed" and may be a possible danger is something that shouldn't be taken likely. As well there were also sights of RPG's that were found to be exactly that.

 

[Trinity19]

Yeah....unfortunatly the actual people weren't as obvious as that. So, sorry your picture holds no validation...just shows you have very little to support yourself on based on this particular subject.
A possible shooter will look like a civilian so simply because they 'looked' like civilians doesn't mean they aren't the previous offenders.

 

[SuF]

The way I see it is that Wikileaks as a website is just fine and taking them down is not alright. However, leaking documents that could end innocent lives is not alright but it is not illegal.

So, there should be not legal action taken against Wikileaks, but they should have (if they did not. I don't know) only released documents that would not put people in danger and saved the ones that could potentially hurt people until what ever situation that could have put people in danger was resolved.

 

[The Riddler_]

Yeah....unfortunatly the actual people weren't as obvious as that. So, sorry your picture holds no validation...just shows you have very little to support yourself on based on this particular subject.
A possible shooter will look like a civilian so simply because they 'looked' like civilians doesn't mean they aren't the previous offenders.

This picture's shows how trigger happy the soldiers are for enemies. They saw the camera as an RPG, took no time to confirm before taking action. How come the police do, but the army doesn't?