Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

Discussion in 'Something For All' started by Sythe, Feb 6, 2008.

Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed
  1. Unread #61 - Mar 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    I'll tell you in simple terms why Socialism and Communism fail while Capitalism works. Very simply, there are corrupt and greedy people in this world.

    Socialism and Communism can only function well if no corruption exists throughout the entire distribution and production chain.

    Capitalism assumes that people will be greedy and seek a profit. It is the only system that acknowledges and uses greed to better everyone.

    :) Econ 101
     
  3. Unread #62 - Mar 10, 2008 at 12:41 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Wrong. Capitalism assumes that there will be people. That is all.
     
  5. Unread #63 - Mar 13, 2008 at 3:38 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Runescape suck
     
  7. Unread #64 - Mar 18, 2008 at 8:36 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Neither complete capitalism nor socialism, are workable in practice. However i do believe in a capitalistic market;

    Take for example a scenario in communistic society where everyone earns equally. There is no incentive to work harder- as profit the basic motivation in Maslow's hierarchy- can not be given without infringin on all men being equal. Put simply, why should i work harder, when i will earn the same as a person who does not?

    Which is why i think most economies today use a mixture of the 2 - with the US leaning more towards a capitialistic free-market and canada to a more communistic approach.
     
  9. Unread #65 - Mar 18, 2008 at 4:56 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed


    The whole first world has become completely socialized. Socialism, in practice, is neo-serfdom. The people are slaves on the land to the masters, the ruling elite. With no chance of ever owning land or property or business, and no chance of moving higher in the world.

    What you are describing is the Keynesian theory of economics.

    But the Keynesians can't explain or understand the business cycle correctly or account for stagflation. The truth is: there can be no meeting between life and death, rationality and irrationality. The public sector, and all socialized activities, and all powers of legislation to regulate private enterprises, have to go.
     
  11. Unread #66 - Mar 18, 2008 at 9:28 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    question for you

    how is the issue with socialized health, education etc solved with Libertarianism?
     
  13. Unread #67 - Mar 18, 2008 at 10:55 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    What issue? You mean what do you do without the shitty services provided by the government using stolen money?

    You could purchase higher quality care and education on the free market. Not only would prices drop because of competition, but quality would increase as well.
     
  15. Unread #68 - Mar 19, 2008 at 4:08 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Yeah, and something even better happens. Even better than cheap good quality health care. If you don't like it, then you can start your own! No regulations, no restrictions on what you have to pay people, no land tax, no tax of any sort. Same with schools. If you want to start a school in your backyard then you can!

    "How will consumers be protected!?", I hear you cry. Through sound judgment; their own. Through the reputation of the company with whom they are dealing and with their own knowledge of what they are buying.
     
  17. Unread #69 - Mar 20, 2008 at 5:14 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Yet what of those that can not take care of themselves? I am playign devils advocate, but clearly in a capitalistic society anyone that can not afford goods and services will not be taken care of- profit being the main motive.

    Also, yes i am in support of Keynesian economics visavis neo-classical.

    Moreover there is an interesting cyclical effect of the richer getting richer while the poor get poorer- thus two children of equal potential- one born in a rich family and another in a poor will not have an equal opportunity in life.

    Lastly ,
    this discourages sustainable development- which in itself would have dire consequences.
     
  19. Unread #70 - Mar 20, 2008 at 6:53 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Capitalism is best for the poor. Goods are cheap, and demand for services mean jobs / business opportunities. You ignorant advocates of socialism do not realize that the slums created by your large government political philosophies only support life because micro-capitalism occurs on a grand scale within them. The people in the slums of India only survive BECAUSE they are capitalists. They all run little businesses.

    Yes this effect is the result of your altruistic philosophies. In your world you'd rather no one ever be rich and everyone be poor; equally poor. However this is never the reality. Socialism, is, in practice, serfdom. Those above the law remain rich and those below the law remain poor.

    It is only capitalism that allows everyone equal opportunity to pursue their own goals and therefore to create wealth.

    Sustainable development is the biggest fallacy the left wing have ever brewed. More fallacious than man made global warming. More fallacious even than the Keynesian theory of inflation.

    According to you we have been engaged in 'unsustainable development' for the entire period of the industrial revolution. What dire consequences do you speak of? The fact that people have food to eat and warm houses? The fact that traveling 100 kilometers takes only an hour and can be accomplished by even the lowest member of society for the cost of a cup of coffee? Are these the dire consequences of which you speak? Technological progress. Humanitarian progress?

    You owe your very existence to it, and yet you damn it. You damn the free market. You'd rather a tree lived in your place. Go then, go forth and die for your love of the environment.
     
  21. Unread #71 - Mar 21, 2008 at 2:13 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Lol dont take this so seriously m8- its a discussion, and while i am a capitalist i do feel it necessary to fairly portray both sides.

    In any case, let me phrase my points in a similar fashion:

    In the last 30 years, mankind has done irreversible damage to the environment, depleting not only its natural resources such that the fuels are not only expected to run out in the next 30 years, but the UN itself has decided to intervene. "Man-made global warming is fallacious", then why the restraint of over polluting factories, why the removal CFC's even in ordinary items such as "ozone-friendly" deoderant? Man does cause global warming, destroying the environment he lives in - even through acid rain or eutrophication that kills sea life to give a few examples. We owe our existence- our upbringing- to the resources provided by nature, and yet for a profit- for gaining more money and thus putting ourselves above other humans- we willing participate in the destruction of our world. Yes "we" have food to eat and warm houses, but what of the next generation , or the generation after that? You condemn them, by permitting selfishness and greed- wanting more and more, destroying everything in your path. Until there is no end to wanton destruction.

    You mentioned the people in the slums of India. Have u personally been to a slum? I have and the living conditions there are despicable- while the Donald Trumps of the world have billions and trillions of dollars, other survive on less than a "dollar a day" according to UN statistics. In Africa, it is estimated that a child dies EVERY MINUTE from miseasle- somethign that can be easily cured. In a purely capitalistic market , organisations such as UN, and WHO would not exist- is that a world u advocate? One without considering for those less fortunate?

    You stated that the lowest member of society can travel 100k in an hour, and drink a cup of coffee. That is a fallacy. How can someone who can not even afford a bag of maize to feed his family and survive- afford to pay his entire days wage for a cup of coffee, or a months earnings for 100km journey. In a captilastic market- even in the world we live in today- a child from a rich family can spend maybe $100,000 buying a fancy car, while at the same time humans are dying from the inability to get fractionally less funds per capita for proper medical care. Who are you, who are any of us to say this world is ideal?

    Socialism may not be perfect- that i fully agree with you- but neither is capitalism- and to pretend otherwise is pointless.
     
  23. Unread #72 - Mar 21, 2008 at 10:42 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Ridiculous. You don't understand the seriousness of your position. You do not understand that you are condemning greater than half the world's population of humans to death. You have no right to decide if others live or die. No right.

    The UN has been intervening since its inception, rarely with good results. The world's fuel supplies are not going to run out. This is a psuedoscientific myth pushed by those who would have you believe Arabs are going to jump out from behind a rock and kill you.

    IRAQ is Israel's war. 9/11 was Israel's doing. And peak oil and global warming are an attempt to destroy the middle east by destroying the credibility of the only thing it produces -- oil.

    You treat oil as though it were a natural resource. What a fool you are. Crude oil was a disgusting waste product, and still is, of producing lamp oil. It was only through capitalism that oil was discovered to be a fuel. It is not a natural resource -- it is a natural waste product, turned into a fuel by capitalism. Without capitalism we would still be dumping it into the ocean.

    Well to begin with, ozone depletion is entirely separate to global warming. Ozone depletion did not cease when CFC's were banned. This is because the 'cause' of ozone depletion was just a THEORY, a theory that proved to be largely incorrect.

    The restraint is by large government; it is merchantalistic. They do it for profit and power, not to "save" the environment.

    Hahahaha. Firstly I reject your premise that "man does cause global warming." Evidence, please.

    Now you are throwing a whole bunch of things into the mix. To begin with acid rain is caused by the failure of government to allow class action suits against polluting factories.

    If someone sets up a chemical factory on the block next door to me, and he pollutes my air, thus damaging my body, then I have every right to sue him for doing so. It would be no different had he walked onto my property and hit me in the stomach.

    But, airports, factories, and general large polluters are protected from class action lawsuits, basically everywhere in the world, by government. The governments argue that it is for the "greater good of society". So again, your problem is caused by government, not capitalism.

    How fucking ridiculous. I suppose you think that electricity is a natural resource? That medical science is a natural resource? Indeed, that doctors and scientists are natural resources. These are the things and people to which you owe your very existence. The technology and understanding created by men of the mind, made only possible through capitalism, are those things to which you owe your life. Your position is outrageous -- nature provides nothing. Man must bend nature to his will in order that he can survive.

    Altruistic rubbish! How do you think you got all the undeserved 'stuff' and technology and knowledge you have today? It was through the virtue of selfishness. People never achieve ANYTHING unless they are free to peruse their own goals.

    You would have the investment capital for a new factory go toward feeding the undeserving homeless. You would sacrifice 100 jobs and several lifetimes of wealth creation so that 50 people may eat once. ONCE.

    Altruism is a fallacy. Man only progresses through selfishness and mutual trade. If all we did was give away the product of our labour then no one would have anything - as we saw in soviet russia. Immense poverty, starvation, cannibalism.

    Oh what crap. Why are they there to begin with you silly fool? Do you even understand why people are so poor in those countries? It is because entry into the business industry in those countries is fucking impossible. There is no competetion to bid up the price of their labour.

    If labour is so cheap there then why can't I start a factory and make lots of money? Why can't everyone? That would bid up the price of labour, would it not? The reason we cannot is because the corrupt government stops any new businesses being formed in those countries. They only allow transnationals with billions of dollars to use as bribes to come in and setup factories. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POOR. In a capitalist society they would be wealthy.

    Its not a fallacy. If they make less than the cost of a cup of coffee a day that does not make the expense of travel more expensive. It is still the same price as a cup of coffee.

    And why is that? It is because of corrupt large government. People are not free to have and create wealth in third world nations. Hell we are not free to do it anymore, and we are moving toward third world status. Australia, UK, Canada, US. All becoming socialist cesspools.


    Capitalism is perfect. You don't understand it. You've never had it. You are entirely ignorant to the principles on which it is based. You are the product of compulsory socialist formal education. Disgusting; A child of the state.
     
  25. Unread #73 - Mar 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    So what is it, then, that you therefore suggest? Complete decimation of government- and then hope for the best?

    Why would any politicians relinquish power by agreeing to such an idea, and hence how can anyone actually put such an idea to practice?

    EDIT: W8 a sec, do u mean by suggesting that oil and other fuels will soon be over, governments lie about it to gain an upperhand? Effectively cutting down the arab countries incomes- as thier given a negative image? Lol that actually makes sense.. never thought of that before
     
  27. Unread #74 - Mar 23, 2008 at 1:06 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    You can keep your nanny state if you want, just leave us libertarians in peace to live our own lives the way we want to, on land we own outright.

    The same way it was won originally; through bloody revolution.

    Israel wants the middle east dead. Their plan has many facets.
    Global warming -- destroy oil in the minds of consumers.
    Terrorism -- demonize Arabs in the eyes of the world.
    Iraq and Afghanistan wars -- destabilize the middle east.
     
  29. Unread #75 - Mar 28, 2008 at 1:40 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Yes, it will always fail miserably because of human nature of greed and hatered for our brethren. Other than that its a perfect model of geverment.
     
  31. Unread #76 - Mar 31, 2008 at 10:39 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    I'm gonna bypass any issues or argument on government policy since I don't really care, but any student of economics or psychology can tell you why communism fails - it's the issue of incentives.

    People in capitalism go to school for 4-6-8-10+ years and do rigorous and difficult work in that time. Why? For their own benefit, not anyone else's. At the point when the incentive is taken away, then there's no reason to strive to succeed.

    When that happens, people would rather be ditch diggers than doctors...and don't care about working hard because everyone succeeds the same amount and society fails.
     
  33. Unread #77 - Apr 1, 2008 at 5:45 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    comunism can never work as long as some people have 2 be more equal then others
     
  35. Unread #78 - Apr 2, 2008 at 6:49 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    It isn't, really. Some people have to control the means of production, which others merely use them. Also, there is no method for innovation, to develop new products.
     
  37. Unread #79 - Apr 12, 2008 at 9:45 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Communism fails because it destroys personal incentive. In layman's terms, why should I work hard if I'm getting the exact same results as those around me. I'd guess that's the reason the medical field is so crippled in Communist areas.
     
  39. Unread #80 - Apr 14, 2008 at 10:18 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Socialism would work pretty well though.....I mean if the leader was not power hungry/greedy it would work very well. The leader would have to make sure the government was not corrupt, but as long as almost everyone in the country wanted it, it would go smoothly.
     
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