What are we doing wrong?

I'd easily vouch for the fact that nobody wants change. People who have power and say in this community will abuse it by doing as much as they can to not allow change. Once we realize this - good job Wortel, I expected this out of you - we can implement good suggestions that will improve the community.

Change is hard but not impossible, unless you want to contradict your pardon.

 

If we ever want to change, we need to say "No! Free market" There has probably been dozens of suggestions on putting restrictions on such as requiring vouches to sell accounts. I honestly think we need this change because majority of the scams are from account selling. But meh, its never going to happen.

 

If we ever want to change, we need to say "No! Free market" There has probably been dozens of suggestions on putting restrictions on such as requiring vouches to sell accounts. I honestly think we need this change because majority of the scams are from account selling. But meh, its never going to happen.

That'd basically make no sense because the suggestions that keep getting rejected over and over again have got nothing to do with whether we have a free market or not. If we'll go down that road we might even ask ourselves how a "free market" is working out for us so far. Thousands of dollars are being ripped off each other's hands year in year out and down the road the only ones who benefit from a "free market" are those capable enough to understand the market, but sadly the majority of the users here do not understand it. But yeah, that's up for another discussion.

 

That'd basically make no sense because the suggestions that keep getting rejected over and over again have got nothing to do with whether we have a free market or not. If we'll go down that road we might even ask ourselves how a "free market" is working out for us so far. Thousands of dollars are being ripped off each other's hands year in year out and down the road the only ones who benefit from a "free market" are those capable enough to understand the market, but sadly the majority of the users here do not understand it. But yeah, that's up for another discussion.

The suggestions of putting requirements that gets denied uses the excuse "Free Market".

 

The suggestions of putting requirements that gets denied uses the excuse "Free Market".

Correct, which is lame of course.

 

[gambling_babz]

Change is hard but not impossible, unless you want to contradict your pardon.

Sure but that's been implemented already, clearly more needs to be changed

 

[Worm]

I'm going to talk much less about afraid of change, and more so of the feedback system in OP originally suggested. Forewarning.

For the record most of the limitations we have are due to Xenforo 1.5.7, not everything is possible to add and there are security concerns.

I would disagree whole heartedly. Anything can be made, Xenforo or not, and integrated. There are a billion plugins out there for Feedback for Xenforo if we wanna be lazy and just use one of those, but with anything it can be changed and manipulated to work in our system. It's just a matter of taking the time to do so. Sure, it's a scary and big change. Doesn't mean it's a bad one. Sythe is oddly one of the only websites I've seen still use a "Vouch Thread" system, a system that was mainly used in the early 2000's until software that did it much better came about.

Any system we put forward is going to be abused and exploited, if there is money to be made people will find a way to cheat the system. EpicNPC, and many other sites have the same issues we have with scamming. A feedback system functions the same as a vouch thread, one is just easier to understand. However, from personal experience, users don't tend to look into the feedback, they take the number presented at face value. The attractive feature of Sythe (at least to me) is that you can verify the vouches yourself and there are even tools that allow you to catch fake vouches. There is surely more effort applied when reviewing someone, but the information is there for anyone willing to practice due cation when trading.

Which is why rules and regulations regarding these things are put in place. Sure there will be some chaos during the transition, but in my opinion I think the transition is much needed. Feedback sites do have flaws, absolutely, but those flaws are still existent in Vouch threads. Plus, who the hell reads a vouch thread anyway? They just look at the number of posts in the thread. With a feedback system you're now introducing a "NEGATIVE" counter to go along with it. While this number is MUCH less looked at, the overall percentage of positive to negative feedback is there and is what people want to see.

To Wortel: I'm right there with you man. I'm so tired of seeing suggestions for forums go unnoticed or get completely ignored, especially when some of them are 1-2 hour fixes that are hugely beneficial REGARDLESS of opinion. I think Sythe is one of the best when it comes to listening to the community, which I find to be a really rare thing to find in forums which keeps me around, but there is so much more that could be done when it comes to the suggestion subforum. Too many get unnoticed, and I have part to blame as well, I've stopped caring about it because I lost hope years ago. Perhaps it's time to revisit it.

Good on you Wortel for bringing it up, I hope we can see some change in the future.

 

I wasn't sure if I wanted to involve myself in this discussion, but you are missing the key thing.

If we ever want to change, we need to say "No! Free market" There has probably been dozens of suggestions on putting restrictions on such as requiring vouches to sell accounts. I honestly think we need this change because majority of the scams are from account selling. But meh, its never going to happen.

Who gets to decide what amout of vouches is enough?
1 vouch can also have a very different value than other. This could be easily abused in a multiple ways.

I can answer the question, though. The buyer gets to decide what and how much feedback is enough for himself.
By protecting stupid people you force everyone to follow the unnecessary rule, that complicates businesses.

Do you want more government regulations as well? Where's the free market, there's the best economy.

That'd basically make no sense because the suggestions that keep getting rejected over and over again have got nothing to do with whether we have a free market or not. If we'll go down that road we might even ask ourselves how a "free market" is working out for us so far. Thousands of dollars are being ripped off each other's hands year in year out and down the road the only ones who benefit from a "free market" are those capable enough to understand the market, but sadly the majority of the users here do not understand it. But yeah, that's up for another discussion.

Free market is working great for us. Sythe's the most successful runescape markerplace by far.

Not even going to reply to the second part, but I know you mean it good.

The suggestions of putting requirements that gets denied uses the excuse "Free Market".

Correct, which is lame of course.

Yeah, more bureaucracy and regulations sounds like a hell of a plan for market.

Free market works and it's not lame. Perhaps Sythe has better things to do, than write an essay on every denied suggestion.

I can't say enough how glad I am that sythe.org is owned by such intelligent and wise person.

Don't go down the road of regulation. It has never worked and never will.

PS: I know that you don't mean harm, but soviet intelligence didn't either.