Viou / un just dude

[FireZ]

Just un presented his pardon, provided proof nobody apart from the dupers were punished and provided proof multiple times karl banned him based on a pm. Now he's staying banned because some people on staff don't like him. He didn't even lie to be honest, when I figured out he was duping I asked him if it was the crucible dupe and he said no, after I asked him if it was duped he told me it was. The staff asked him the exact same question asking if it was duped by crucible he said no, but he didn't reply saying it was duped. He could have handled it better but at the time he wasn't the only one duping and definitely wasn't the only one selling duped gold.

Here's his pardon http://www.sythe.org/dispute-forum-archive/1623965-pardon-request.html if you wanted to read it. He wasn't really even permed for lying, he was permed for calling karl a liar.

Maybe the next time he posts a pardon it will actually be voted on based on the facts of the situation rather than the personal grudges people hold against him.

Just un dude is a piece of shit. Had his customers been wiped or banned he wouldnt have ever repaid any of them, he was just out to get his with zero care for anyone else.

This is the same as a car dealer turning back the odometers of cars and selling them as "low miles". Its pure bullshit. And when you get caught then lie about it, the sympathy card goes out the door, I for one will never vote yes on any of his pardons.

 

[Xier0]

Damn right, traded more than your parent's house is worth

...

You claim all this legitimacy and experience, then you scam someone out of $750 and have Staff tell you that you have to pay them. Seems like an issue someone with 6 years of experience shouldn't even have to bring up with staff since you boast six figure profits, $750 shouldn't be shit to you amirite?

Had it been any other user, a TWC would be given.

 

[R2Pleasent]

How did I scam him out of $750? I told him we both saw the situation differently and needed it decided upon by a third party.

 

[FireZ]

How did I scam him out of $750? I told him we both saw the situation differently and needed it decided upon by a third party.

Which when party A + B cannot agree the staff (party C) is the correct route to go.

 

[Xier0]

How did I scam him out of $750? I told him we both saw the situation differently and needed it decided upon by a third party.

He delivered the goods to you.

You did not pay him.


What happens after you receive the goods isn't his fault, period. If you accidentally dropped it on the ground or got banned with it doesn't matter, he held up his end of the deal. Why should he be out his $750 because of your misfortune?

The mere fact that it escalated to a dispute just proves how unprofessional you are.

 

[Emperor Nero]

inb4ivetradedmorethanyourhouseisworth

 

[R2Pleasent]

He delivered the goods to you.

You did not pay him.


What happens after you receive the goods isn't his fault, period. If you accidentally dropped it on the ground or got banned with it doesn't matter, he held up his end of the deal. Why should he be out his $750 because of your misfortune?

The mere fact that it escalated to a dispute just proves how unprofessional you are.

If I had paid him before the account was unbanned, he would have been paid twice. Quit acting like you know anything about this business.

 

[Xier0]

If I had paid him before the account was unbanned, he would have been paid twice. Quit acting like you know anything about this business.

Doesn't matter. You fucked up the trade and lost the goods, he isn't at fault period.

All of the staff who posted on the dispute agreed as well. You just got incredibly lucky that the account was unbanned and still had the money on it.

 

[Punjabi3]

Just un dude is a piece of shit. Had his customers been wiped or banned he wouldnt have ever repaid any of them, he was just out to get his with zero care for anyone else.

This is the same as a car dealer turning back the odometers of cars and selling them as "low miles". Its pure bullshit. And when you get caught then lie about it, the sympathy card goes out the door, I for one will never vote yes on any of his pardons.

You would have to be very thick at the time all that was going on to not think the gold was duped, look back at all the chats and karl's posts you can see his actual intentions about the dupe. You guys originally gave him a twc + market ban and a global acted on his own to perm ban him.

He told me it was duped on msn when I asked him, obviously certain mods were trying to get more detail on how to do it and it seems karl's greed had a lot more to do with his banning than the actual deception he committed. When all this was relevant there was no rule saying you had to state your gold was duped, nobody who crucible duped was banned whether they admitted it or not, and jagex even stated who would be punished in accordance to the dupe. All the people who resold duped gold should have been banned as well, you can't say they didn't know because if they didn't they wouldn't have adjusted their prices to bare minimums at the time. Everyone knew duped gp was everywhere and the whole situation gave staff a reason to get rid of someone they don't like.

At the time everyone was out to get theirs but the irony is the people you guys left to sell their duped gold resulted in roll backs, whereas the one you banned resulted in none, apart from the people who did the dupe according to jagex.

I don't know how you can come to the conclusion of him not wanting to pay people back when the situation didn't even arise, you can't really say based on past evidence since there doesn't seem to be any and he's never proven to be illegitimate. I believe only one person was rolled back and just un offered to compensate him if he provided proof it was a result of his gp but as it can be seen that guy was buying multiple bils off crucible dupers and big gold sellers here who were also selling duped gold.

 

[R2Pleasent]

Doesn't matter. You fucked up the trade and lost the goods, he isn't at fault period.

All of the staff who posted on the dispute agreed as well. You just got incredibly lucky that the account was unbanned and still had the money on it.

Yeah, I was lucky, because the staff had found me responsible for the gold. And I have always said I would take their decision as final. What's your point

 

[Xier0]

Yeah, I was lucky, because the staff had found me responsible for the gold. And I have always said I would take their decision as final. What's your point

My point is that for someone who claims as much experience as you, it should have never escalated to the point of a dispute because of how blatantly obvious it is that you should have paid.

 

[SmokinShop]

I've not posted my opinion on this matter because I didn't feel it was needed up until this point. I don't quite see what all the fuss is about. Sythe pays for the forums to be here through hosting and his time, and his decision should be final. It's kind of like a "you don't like it, leave" type of situation.

As for R2, I've done many trades with him. I think he's a respectable person who got caught in a very tricky situation. If he had paid right away, he would have lost 750$, and the other party would have still gotten his gold back. The point of waiting might not seem right in this situation, however giving it a day or two is always a positive thing. Being honest, he could have ran off with much more then 750$, and we all know that. We've had similar situations in SM that panned out in a similar way.

I understand people might not like him because of his seniority, or it may be jealousy. Regardless of what the "point" you guys are trying to make is, it's important to know that the people running this forum made a decision. It's even more important to respect it and move on. I'm not posting this to get on "good terms" or "gain respect" from anyone. I'm posting this because it seems people are biased for some reason. I'm not sure what it is. Whether it's jealousy or some form of hatred, I think it's being overplayed and it's rather silly.

Regardless, that is my opinion. It's important to look at things with an open mind and respect the decision of those that allow us to be here.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I've not posted my opinion on this matter because I didn't feel it was needed up until this point. I don't quite see what all the fuss is about. Sythe pays for the forums to be here through hosting and his time, and his decision should be final. It's kind of like a "you don't like it, leave" type of situation.

As for R2, I've done many trades with him. I think he's a respectable person who got caught in a very tricky situation. If he had paid right away, he would have lost 750$, and the other party would have still gotten his gold back. The point of waiting might not seem right in this situation, however giving it a day or two is always a positive thing. Being honest, he could have ran off with much more then 750$, and we all know that. We've had similar situations in SM that panned out in a similar way.

I understand people might not like him because of his seniority, or it may be jealousy. Regardless of what the "point" you guys are trying to make is, it's important to know that the people running this forum made a decision. It's even more important to respect it and move on. I'm not posting this to get on "good terms" or "gain respect" from anyone. I'm posting this because it seems people are biased for some reason. I'm not sure what it is. Whether it's jealousy or some form of hatred, I think it's being overplayed and it's rather silly.

Regardless, that is my opinion. It's important to look at things with an open mind and respect the decision of those that allow us to be here.

The problem with the 'Like or Leave it' argument is that it isn't good for business. Say I have a person that pays $500 a week to advertise on my site, but they're scamming or have a bad reputation among markets. I could say 'Hey, it's my market if you don't like it then leave' but that looks really bad. (not insinuating R2P is scamming, just saying hypothetically) If people see that you are putting people above the rules because they're paying you breeds discontent. Discontent leads to people leaving and lost revenue. When you have market with tens of thousands of dollars coming through it every day it isn't a wise decision to say 'Well, I own it so get over it'. I think a lot of the staff try to be fair a majority of the time, but I think personal biases come into play a lot here. I think Richard is smart to be stepping in now, but I also think a lot of these things need to be investigated further because there are a lot of shady dealings in the market.

 

[SmokinShop]

The problem with the 'Like or Leave it' argument is that it isn't good for business. Say I have a person that pays $500 a week to advertise on my site, but they're scamming or have a bad reputation among markets. I could say 'Hey, it's my market if you don't like it then leave' but that looks really bad. (not insinuating R2P is scamming, just saying hypothetically) If people see that you are putting people above the rules because they're paying you breeds discontent. Discontent leads to people leaving and lost revenue. When you have market with tens of thousands of dollars coming through it every day it isn't a wise decision to say 'Well, I own it so get over it'. I think a lot of the staff try to be fair a majority of the time, but I think personal biases come into play a lot here. I think Richard is smart to be stepping in now, but I also think a lot of these things need to be investigated further because there are a lot of shady dealings in the market.

I whole-heartedly agree with some of the statements here, however much of this has been investigated by multiple people. We don't have access to discussion forums for mods, but I'm sure there was discussion and intent to get things done based on the rules here. You'd be right to imply some things are shady, however anyone above just a regular forum user probably makes mistakes sometimes. Things slip through the cracks or aren't seen. That's only human and happens. I don't believe that is the case here though and I'm rather confident high-profile cases like this are investigated much more. They should be.

All I'm trying to imply is that decisions made by the management here should be respected. It is not our call to call them out if they make a mistake. They will feel the burden of mistakes in the future if they occur. I've not seen any thus far and I think it has a lot to do with the public pushing things. It's not a negative thing to push an opinion, and I honestly think management likes to hear them. It is however a negative thing when you push it to the point where it's not constructive, and then just comes down to principle.

 

[Apith]

- Snappie account trade (Some kid trying to flip an unsafe account to someone I was involved with in an account shop).

That wasnt the point. You told him he was your associate, let him bump your thread, then weeks later say he isnt? r2p is dishonest.

I've not posted my opinion on this matter because I didn't feel it was needed up until this point. I don't quite see what all the fuss is about. Sythe pays for the forums to be here through hosting and his time, and his decision should be final. It's kind of like a "you don't like it, leave" type of situation.

As for R2, I've done many trades with him. I think he's a respectable person who got caught in a very tricky situation. If he had paid right away, he would have lost 750$, and the other party would have still gotten his gold back. The point of waiting might not seem right in this situation, however giving it a day or two is always a positive thing. Being honest, he could have ran off with much more then 750$, and we all know that. We've had similar situations in SM that panned out in a similar way.

I'm posting this because it seems people are biased for some reason. I'm not sure what it is. Whether it's jealousy or some form of hatred, I think it's being overplayed and it's rather silly.

You have done many trades with him, and you believe your opinion isnt bias?

The bias started growing on people when r2p threads pop out. In the time I have been on Sythe, there were at least 4 spam forum threads, separate situations, about r2p's situations. And every time he got away. At first people would think, oh he is trusted he will do this since it isnt much. Then he gets away, it happens again, same results. Then the next time it happens, people starts thinking r2p is walking on thin ropes. Nope, he gets passed it again and at that point people started saying you cannot perm r2p.

Arcus would never have a thread like this where people would be against him. He has always handled situations properly. Arcus donates for the site and gets nothing but a rank in return, he doesnt brag about it. R2P pays for an ad, then tells people he has donated more than everyone else even if he was getting something in return. R2P brags how he makes 6 digits a year and all that. It is not jealousy, it is him showing off and then the way he handles the reports.

 

[Xier0]

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1635602-sythe-richard-lets-have-debate.html

^ That thread sums it up nicely.

And @SmokinShop, my issue isn't with Richard or the site staff as much as it is with R2, ESPECIALLY with the Traxar dispute. At first he claimed he shouldn't have to pay for the gold because it was likely stolen, then when the gold is available to him again, he buys it and says that he had no reason to believe the gold was stolen.

 

[Apith]

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1635602-sythe-richard-lets-have-debate.html

^ That thread sums it up nicely.

And @SmokinShop, my issue isn't with Richard or the site staff as much as it is with R2, ESPECIALLY with the Traxar dispute. At first he claimed he shouldn't have to pay for the gold because it was likely stolen, then when the gold is available to him again, he buys it and says that he had no reason to believe the gold was stolen.

Just like the snappie thing. R2P posted on his thread to contact his associate, james, and gave his email. Weeks later r2p says james wasnt his employee. James was bumping r2p's thread.

He says 2 different things that contradict each other, and gets away with it without any repercussion.

 

[Syed]

 

[SmokinShop]

That wasnt the point. You told him he was your associate, let him bump your thread, then weeks later say he isnt? r2p is dishonest.



You have done many trades with him, and you believe your opinion isnt bias?

The bias started growing on people when r2p threads pop out. In the time I have been on Sythe, there were at least 4 spam forum threads, separate situations, about r2p's situations. And every time he got away. At first people would think, oh he is trusted he will do this since it isnt much. Then he gets away, it happens again, same results. Then the next time it happens, people starts thinking r2p is walking on thin ropes. Nope, he gets passed it again and at that point people started saying you cannot perm r2p.

Arcus would never have a thread like this where people would be against him. He has always handled situations properly. Arcus donates for the site and gets nothing but a rank in return, he doesnt brag about it. R2P pays for an ad, then tells people he has donated more than everyone else even if he was getting something in return. R2P brags how he makes 6 digits a year and all that. It is not jealousy, it is him showing off and then the way he handles the reports.

Yes, I have done many trades, but no I am not biased. Don't you think it would probably be better for me that he were banned so I could possibly progress in the market and get more trades? Yes it would. Would I want that on someone who I feel doesnt deserve it? No. The point is the decision was made by management, and if management (based off of what you're saying) is "bending rules" for him, then so be it. I don't see how you view it that way, but you of course are entitled to your opinion. The point is, they run the forum.

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1635602-sythe-richard-lets-have-debate.html

^ That thread sums it up nicely.

And @SmokinShop, my issue isn't with Richard or the site staff as much as it is with R2, ESPECIALLY with the Traxar dispute. At first he claimed he shouldn't have to pay for the gold because it was likely stolen, then when the gold is available to him again, he buys it and says that he had no reason to believe the gold was stolen.

It was posted somewhere by management that R2 felt he has to purchase the gold off of traxer. He probably wouldn't have, but he felt pushed into it so he did. There was no proof of "theft" for the blue phat, so the deal went through.

I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about >.< That's all.

 

[R2Pleasent]

It's funny because the people who are so desperately against the fact that I received the gold after the ban, based on Traxar's reputation, are the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who said I should be responsible for the gold 100% when it was banned originally. This is absolutely contradictory. If I am responsible for the gold, then it's my gold.

I am yet to see a valid argument against this:

How can I walk away from the trade without taking a massive risk? If Traxar's account was banned, reset, or if he tried to claim it was banned / reset, what can I possibly do? Anyone who has any understanding of how the market works would realize that I had no valid way of separating myself from the transaction. Furthermore, I await any actual proof that the gold he was selling was hacked/stolen. Sure, I raised suspicions in my case over responsibility for the gold, but ultimately nobody found them to be relevant to the transaction.

I can guarantee that were the situation reversed, every single person on this forum would have acted the same way.

As for the Snappie thing, that's just hilarious that it's still being brought up. It happened literally 3 years ago. It was when rules on Sythe were not the same as they are today. Opening a shop with somebody didn't necessarily mean you were responsible for every single thing they did. If such a rule was in place at the time, I would not have opened the shop.

Furthermore, Snappie was trying to resell an account that he bought off someone from Estonia, who he had never met. If I recall correctly, he had barely been in possession of the account for more than a week. Who knows how many other people had the information to it. Snappie didn't even have any way to recover the account, since he had no recovery info / account details.

Let's add to the fact that there is no actual proof of anybody stealing the account. And that moderators looked it over very carefully 3 years ago. There were ~150 posts and the discussion was ongoing for 3 days. Ultimately a decision was made. You think that you are cracking this case 3 years later without half the information that mods had before?