The "War" in Iraq

[Quint_Force]

I personally think that it is a useless war now, we got the objective done we wanted to: Get Sadam, now US should just leave, Bush is seriously wrong about this Iraq will probably never improve, even with our "help" if they cant get a stable government and social system, it is just a hopeless cause. And its costing the US trillions of dollars which is being cut from other areas in our country, such as education to name one.

 

[Shredderbeam]

why are gas prices so high?

Control the supply, control the prices.

 

[Search]

A coalition of countries invaded Iraq in 2003, with the goal of removing Saddam Hussein from power, and ridding the country of alleged weapons of mass destruction. I'm sure most of you know this.

After Saddam was removed from power, the country was thoroughly checked, and no weapons of mass destruction were found. None.

Sometime last spring, Yahoo! news reported that the Pentagon had admitted to twisting the Iraq data in an "unethical, but not illegal" manner. I couldn't find a link for this, so look it up yourself.

The Downing Street Memo's reveal that Bush had wanted to invade Iraq for many years, was willing to provoke Saddam into aggression, and that the actual war began almost a year before the 2003 invasion.

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

So. The government knew that there were no WMD, yet they invaded anyway, costing 3,615 American lives, and up to 785,000 Iraqi civilian lives (http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html). It has also cost around $450 billion, and has helped to hurt the dollar in its competition against the Euro.

Yet, we still invaded. Why is this? Could it be that Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world?

Think about it: We left Osama bin Laden in the mountains of Tora Bora to go invade Iraq. Clearly, this is not a fight on terror, as Osama and Saddam were sworn enemies.

We've also changed the reason for the war numerous times. First, it was the WMD. Second, it was "freeing the Iraqi people". Then, it was part of the war on terror.

Allow me to digress for a moment. What is a terrorist organization? Is it an organization with clearly defined borders, set bases, and an easy-to-locate army? No, it is a network of people who use "terror tactics" (hence the name "terrorism") to achieve their goals. Can you really wage a "war" (using tanks, B-52 bombers, etc.) on such an organization, or is it something that you combat using intelligence, spies, etc.? Methinks the latter is more likely.

So, the facts have been laid bare. To those of you who still believe that we should have invaded, please, discuss your views here.

I completely agree with what you said. My main problem with the slaughter was, as you mentioned, the fact that we're using a club to kill ants, so to speak. There is no way we can snuff out the terrorist regime, but when we've gotten a few more key members of their organization, a few oil wells sure would be lovely trophies wouldn't they? And we only had to pave the way to them in blood and shrapnel. Golly jeepers, Bush, you sure are strong!

Fuck All You Fags Not Supporting The War. I Was There. Support Us All You Fucking Pussys Too Afraid To Go Yourself

how about you guys do something useful instead of bitch about the war.
be the change you want to see in the world

What do you think is the ratio of civilians' lives lost to civilians' lives saved from terrorists? And the ratio of oil wells saved to civilians saved? Both are probably a lot higher than you may think. If only we still had Nikola Tesla around..

 

[AkA_Stoney]

i was just having this conversation with a 79 year old man that runs 5 miles everyday. how long have we been there now 5 years? what exactly have we been doing there for 5 years.?
we cant just leave now.
whos next for guiding this somewhat, atrocious scene?
what do other nations think about what we have done.
when was there a weapon of massive?
.
great topic shredder and im sorry.

 

[:: Aiarina ::]

okay....i know this thread is about the war in iraq and we got people against and for it....
some of you say that the iraqi people want the us army there others say that they never wanted them there ever....

I am in Somalia (for those who don't know where that is, try watching Black Hawk Down.) As I am typing this reply, American troops are based at port and flowing onto the land. AND THEY ARE NOT WANTED HERE...
and guess what!! I am white and a white person found in this country by the Western governments is called a TERRORIST.

So i don't agree with any war in a country in which the "SAVIOUR" is not invited...

That's my bit

 

[DropKick Murphys]

we cant just leave now.

Sure we (America) can.
Why not?

 

[0wn_dem_rune_rocks]

I truly believe America invaded for Oil. Why else would they go after Saddam, when he clearly hasn't done anything as bad as 9/11 to America, yes, I know. Weapons of mass destruction... Why would America go after a known American-hater (Osama), when they could go for Oil? They abandoned 'the war on terrorism' for 'the war on higher-profits'.

 

[jaysimons]

humans are their own destruction

 

[/B/lackup]

Also, I pose this question to you pro-warists:

Why spend your trillion dollar per year budget to invade Iraq, supposedly to take down a dictator killing tens of thousands of people, when you could more easily and for much less, move into an African country in the third world, and take out a corrupt leader who, by the cause of hoarding aid, has caused the death of millions by starvation?

What does Iraq have that these third world countries don't?

Oh wait, that'd be oil.

Wow, you basically took the words right out of my mouth. This definitely makes me angry, we go in and kill THOUSANDS, of course we were attacked by extremists, and yes they were from Afghanistan/Iraq. But I don't think it justifies us to go in an kill people who do not believe in that.



If you guys have ever seen Zeitgeist the Movie? I would suggest watching it, it changed my opinions about the war/government 100%. It is broken into three parts: Religion, 9/11 Conspiracy, and the U.S. Federal Bank.


If you aren't really interested in the other two parts, just skip to the third part, I was literally asking myself out loud WHY IN THE F^^k?!?!? I did a good deal of research on it and so far I have found it to be 100% percent accurate, although it does add some personal beliefs of the director of the movie in there that I can't really believe...but it would recommend it if you would like to know why the U.S. goes to war.




Edit: I'm actually going to make a thread about this, people might be very interested in seeing it.

 

[xx mdv xx]

What we should do is take American troops out of Iraq and put them in Afghanistan, unless we really need oil then we should stay in Iraq.

Yes, I have seen The Zeitgeist and it hasn't changed my views 100% but I'm very convinced that this whole thing might be a conspiracy and making a thread on it would be pretty cool.

 

[/B/lackup]

What we should do is take American troops out of Iraq and put them in Afghanistan, unless we really need oil then we should stay in Iraq.

Why would troops go to Afghanistan? all it is a desert filled with destitute civilians. IMO, all of those countries need to be left alone to fight amongst themselves instead of the U.S. going in there and killing them for no reason at all except for the extremist attack 7 years ago.

 

[clue elve]

Allow me to digress for a moment. What is a terrorist organization? Is it an organization with clearly defined borders, set bases, and an easy-to-locate army? No, it is a network of people who use "terror tactics" (hence the name "terrorism") to achieve their goals. Can you really wage a "war" (using tanks, B-52 bombers, etc.) on such an organization, or is it something that you combat using intelligence, spies, etc.? Methinks the latter is more likely.

True first off how it is now it didn't help any1. The USE losed tons of money there with a resul? Thousands of dead ppl who don't know even why? If i was president of usa i wud have stopped doing dumb shit there after i losed max 100miljon. And i agree with you that bush thought he could get free oil. And i agree with you that the ppl who get called ''Terrorist'' are just ppl who love there country. And now they fight for the place they love. Just see it that if u adult(im not atm lol) and u have a family in houde. And some1 with a (fire)weapon enter your house im sure u will fight to keep you're family/house save. But then ppl won't call u a terrorist and it's just the same.
I don't life in USA but idk how ppl could vote 2times for Bush. But yh that's how i think about it IDk about the rest.

 

[/B/lackup]

True first off how it is now it didn't help any1. The USE losed tons of money there with a resul? Thousands of dead ppl who don't know even why? If i was president of usa i wud have stopped doing dumb shit there after i losed max 100miljon. And i agree with you that bush thought he could get free oil. And i agree with you that the ppl who get called ''Terrorist'' are just ppl who love there country. And now they fight for the place they love. Just see it that if u adult(im not atm lol) and u have a family in houde. And some1 with a (fire)weapon enter your house im sure u will fight to keep you're family/house save. But then ppl won't call u a terrorist and it's just the same.
I don't life in USA but idk how ppl could vote 2times for Bush. But yh that's how i think about it IDk about the rest.

Well, when Bush was reelected it was during the middle of the war, people were rallied for the war and I think it was generally they didn't want to pull out just then and risk being attacked again. As for the money, 100 million is basically nothing to the U.S. government.

taking this quote from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/iraq-casualties-iraq-cos_n_92303.html


$5 Trillion - $7 Trillion: Total cost of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan accounting for continued military operations, growing debt and interest payments and continuing health care and counseling costs for veterans. [McClatchy, 2/27/08]


If you didn't see the date, that was from February.



About people dieing in Iraq..more people die from drunk driving accidents in a single year in the U.S. than the TOTAL amount of lives lost by soldiers. On the other hand, over 5 million deaths and refugees by Iraqi civilians.

 

[xx mdv xx]

Why would troops go to Afghanistan? all it is a desert filled with destitute civilians. IMO, all of those countries need to be left alone to fight amongst themselves instead of the U.S. going in there and killing them for no reason at all except for the extremist attack 7 years ago.

We need troops in Afghanistan for the "war" on "terror".

You see we're actually in Iraq for oil and to set up permanent military bases. The same thing is happening in Afghanistan. The U.S. government throws themselves into a war with any possible excuse to get in a war so the Federal Reserver can make money off the military which buys weapons but to buy those weapons the U.S. government has to borrow money from the Federal Reserve and the interest make the Federal Reserve money, plus we get oil. I wouldn't be surprised if we went to Venezuela one day. The U.S. gov. will attack themselves somehow, blame it on the Venezuelans and go in there.

So in the end there is really no war on terror, just the U.S. gov. and the Afghan gov. working together to make a few bucks.

 

[P.rojekt]

Bush is putting money into his family by invading Iraq. It has been shown that his family hold shares in several big oil companys.