The Placebo Effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

A placebo is a sham or simulated medical intervention that can produce a placebo effect. In medical research, placebos depend on the use of controlled and measured deception. Common placebos are inert tablets, sham surgery, and other procedures based on false information. In one common placebo procedure, a patient is given an inert pill, told that it may improve his/her condition, but not told that it is in fact inert. Such an intervention may cause the patient to believe the treatment will change his/her condition; and this belief may produce a subjective perception of a therapeutic effect, causing the patient to feel their condition has improved. This phenomenon is known as the placebo effect.

There's no two ways about it - the mind is capable of extraordinary things.

However, is the mind powerful enough to produce a therapeutic effect on it's own; or is it actually a pseudo-illness from the start? Keep in mind, only about 30% of all patients are susceptible to the placebo effect.

 

[Schnell]

This has a lot to do with how different people perceive their own condition. Two people with the exact same problem could act and feel completely different about it. While a placebo doesn't improve the physical condition directly, the psycological effect can have a strong impact on some people.

 

[Zulwarn]

This is a tough discussion, but I would have to say that the results can go half and half. It may have to be something in the mind of those 30% of patients that causes this phenomenon. That's the only deduction I can think of at this very moment.

 

[Karl]

I don't know enough of this subject to make a proper reply, however..

I do think that when A Doctor prescribes Placebo drugs to a patient, he/she would have studied their patient, Normally, from what I've heard, patients are given placebos when they have, for example, Stress-related illnesses, the only proper cure is rest, but if the patient sternly believes that he has something ill with them, they'll constant bother his/her doctor until they get a result.

By this time, The Doctor would have realised its stress, and will prescribe him the Placebo drug, As long as the Patient believes the Pill is the only alternative to make him feel better, the mind will, so to speak, also accept this drug, his conscience will change.

So yes, i believe its from a mixture of pseudo-illness, which is observed by the Doctor, and the mind, which is powerful enough to act on the emotion that the Patient feels after taking the drug, leading them to be less stressed.

However, I believe It's terrible Deception, If the Doctor poorly judged my illness, decided to give me placebo's and i hadnt recovered, and then found out about the placebo's, I would be furious.

 

This has a lot to do with how different people perceive their own condition. Two people with the exact same problem could act and feel completely different about it. While a placebo doesn't improve the physical condition directly, the psycological effect can have a strong impact on some people.

Such is the purpose of a placebo.

Why do you think the mind perceives it the way it does?

I don't know enough of this subject to make a proper reply, however..

I do think that when A Doctor prescribes Placebo drugs to a patient, he/she would have studied their patient, Normally, from what I've heard, patients are given placebos when they have, for example, Stress-related illnesses, the only proper cure is rest, but if the patient sternly believes that he has something ill with them, they'll constant bother his/her doctor until they get a result.

Real medication has proven to be effective against stress-related illnesses. For example, the anti-anxiety pill Lorazepam effectively treats tens of thousands of people for mental illness every day.

By this time, The Doctor would have realised its stress, and will prescribe him the Placebo drug, As long as the Patient believes the Pill is the only alternative to make him feel better, the mind will, so to speak, also accept this drug, his conscience will change.

Why do you think the mind & conscience accepts this "change"?

So yes, i believe its from a mixture of pseudo-illness, which is observed by the Doctor, and the mind, which is powerful enough to act on the emotion that the Patient feels after taking the drug, leading them to be less stressed.

I will agree that stress plays a very detrimental role on one's body and mind.

However, I believe It's terrible Deception, If the Doctor poorly judged my illness, decided to give me placebo's and i hadnt recovered, and then found out about the placebo's, I would be furious.

I'm sure you aren't alone. There have been extreme cases where cancer patients were given placebos without knowing so. It's frightening that we can become guinea pigs for the figures we trust most.. our doctors.

 

[Schnell]

Such is the purpose of a placebo.

Why do you think the mind perceives it the way it does?

Hard to tell why the brain works as it does, people spend their lives trying to figure that one out.

However, I believe It's terrible Deception, If the Doctor poorly judged my illness, decided to give me placebo's and i hadnt recovered, and then found out about the placebo's, I would be furious.

Why would you be furious because he gave you the treatment he thought you needed? I agree that you could be furious because he misjudged you illness though.

 

Hard to tell why the brain works as it does, people spend their lives trying to figure that one out.

Everybody has their own theories. I'm interested in yours.

I think a placebo's result on an individual is highly dependent on the chemical balance within their brain. Genetic makeup as well, many illnesses that seemingly inflict the body turn out to be illnesses within the mind.

Why would you be furious because he gave you the treatment he thought you needed? I agree that you could be furious because he misjudged you illness though.

Doctors don't accidentally give out placebos.

 

[Schnell]

Doctors don't accidentally give out placebos.

Noone said they do. They can however accidentally misjudge a pasient's condition, and then medicate the patient according to their flawed judgement of that pasient's illness. I don't see how placebos differ from other medication in this situation.

 

Why would you be furious because he gave you the treatment he thought you needed? I agree that you could be furious because he misjudged you illness though.

You are implying that the doctor thought he needed a placebo. Since doctors do not accidentally give out placebos, nobody who passed medical school would think that a placebo was the correct treatment for a serious disease.

Noone said they do. They can however accidentally misjudge a pasient's condition, and then medicate the patient according to their flawed judgement of that pasient's illness. I don't see how placebos differ from other medication in this situation.

That's called malpractice, let's not stray off-topic.

 

[Schnell]

You are implying that the doctor thought he needed a placebo. Since doctors do not accidentally give out placebos, nobody who passed medical school would think that a placebo was the correct treatment for a serious disease.

This is what I quoted and responded to:

However, I believe It's terrible Deception, If the Doctor poorly judged my illness, decided to give me placebo's and i hadnt recovered, and then found out about the placebo's, I would be furious.

Wouldn't you say that in this example, the pasient was given a placebo because the doctor genuinely believed it was the correct treatment?

I should add that I take for granted that the one finding out about the placebo is the pasient and not the doctor. The text is horribly thrown together, but that's how I understood it.

 

This is what I quoted and responded to:


Wouldn't you say that in this example, the pasient was given a placebo because the doctor genuinely believed it was the correct treatment?

I should add that I take for granted that the one finding out about the placebo is the pasient and not the doctor. The text is horribly thrown together, but that's how I understood it.

Not necessarily. It's an inverted scenario, no doctor prescribes placebos expecting it to fully cure the patient.

 

[Rejection]

Not necessarily. It's an inverted scenario, no doctor prescribes placebos expecting it to fully cure the patient.

Surely if a doctor prescribes it (s)he is going out on a limb, what if the patient requires more serious treatment or even just a paracetamol, I have taken "Placebos" without knowing, then later I was told. I still felt ill, I don't really think they work as most of the time, people doubt the power of small tablets anyway and saying "It's a paracetamol" isn't really going to make me feel much better.
If the doctor prescribes it, couldn't it be a mistake?

 

Surely if a doctor prescribes it (s)he is going out on a limb, what if the patient requires more serious treatment or even just a paracetamol, I have taken "Placebos" without knowing, then later I was told. I still felt ill, I don't really think they work as most of the time, people doubt the power of small tablets anyway and saying "It's a paracetamol" isn't really going to make me feel much better.
If the doctor prescribes it, couldn't it be a mistake?

I posted in the beginning of this thread that only 30% of people are susceptible to placebos. It isn't a revelation that they didn't happen to work for you - in fact that's very common.

The purpose of this thread isn't to argue the possibilities of malpractice using placebos. It's to argue the actual effect they have on one's self; both mind and body.

 

[Rejection]

I posted in the beginning of this thread that only 30% of people are susceptible to placebos. It isn't a revelation that they didn't happen to work for you - in fact that's very common.

The purpose of this thread isn't to argue the possibilities of malpractice using placebos. It's to argue the actual effect they have on one's self; both mind and body.

Yes, and my answer shows my opinion on whether they work. I don't think they do, considering when used on me, they didn't.

 

[Karl]

Why do you think the mind perceives it the way it does?

I presume, that the mind would perceive it the way it does because of the deception played by the Doctor, The Patient believes they are receiving something that will genuinely help them. This, obviously, would relieve the patient, as they think they're on the road to "recovery" from such illnesses. Because the patient is relieved, stress levels was naturally decrease, causing the mind to ease up, so to speak, and genuinely curing the body, From stress.

Real medication has proven to be effective against stress-related illnesses. For example, the anti-anxiety pill Lorazepam effectively treats tens of thousands of people for mental illness every day.

I guess one effective variable on the administration of Placebo's must be the severity of the patients illness. If it is obvious Either Stress from Work, or other activities, then the Placebo would most likely be a better solution than Lorazepam, which will most likely have a collection of side effects.

Why do you think the mind & conscience accepts this "change"?

The Mind & Conscience accept this change because of the relieved thoughts and emotions of the Patient, as they think they're receiving drugs that'll help them from their so-called illness.

Why would you be furious because he gave you the treatment he thought you needed? I agree that you could be furious because he misjudged you illness though.

Making the assumption that I had a stress-related illness, I would prefer for him to tell me Its stress, and try and help me recover through other methods rather than the method of deception. I believe Placebo's that, if DIRELY needed, a very last resort, especially if other practice exist to help recovery.

 

[bennytheberry]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17425538

I think it's both.

 

[Rejection]

Wouldn't you find it a bit strange being told "By the way, It's a real paracetamol", otherwise I think that you must be unaware of pretty much anything around you, the effect of placebos is for minor cases such as a headache, not for things where you actually experience insufferable pain. I guess a doctor knows the difference and would know when to give out such medication.