The Good that comes from religion

[The 2g]

Most people would say that some religious beliefs cause people to do "evil" things, like commit murder for example. But, there is also a lot of good that comes of religions. The mass majority of these religions are good hearted people, who follow the religions by its true guidelines. Why do people think that getting rid of all religion is a good thing? I personally know people that, without religion, would probably be in prison by now because they would have nothing to hold them back from committing crimes.

What are your opinions on the good that religions bring vs the evils that they bring?

 

[RLdiamond]

I'll simplify it for you... its HUMAN who kill human, not religion...

Human nature have a unique way of turning beautiful things into weapons against each other... its how it have been since millions of years, ever since human nature existed on this earth... Similarly, Its not guns who kill people, its people who kill people.

another similarity,our nature itself on earth talks and supports the above statement.. we are sick bro...

 

[The 2g]

I'll simplify it for you... its HUMAN who kill human, not religion...

Human nature have a unique way of turning beautiful things into weapons against each other... its how it have been since millions of years, ever since human nature existed on this earth... Similarly, Its not guns who kill people, its people who kill people.

another similarity,our nature itself on earth talks and supports the above statement.. we are sick bro...

Yes I know, I'm not saying that religions create violence, infact i am saying the exact opposite, but im wondering why people would think having NO religions whatsoever would be a good idea, even if you don't believe in that religion, it helps millions stay on a "straight" path

Also, yes guns don't kill people, but it helps people kill a lot more people.

 

[RLdiamond]

Yes I know, I'm not saying that religions create violence, infact i am saying the exact opposite, but im wondering why people would think having NO religions whatsoever would be a good idea, even if you don't believe in that religion, it helps millions stay on a "straight" path

Also, yes guns don't kill people, but it helps people kill a lot more people.

My point is, even if you take religion from people, they will still find something to give them a reason to do those "evil things" you talked about. If you still don't understand me I am simply saying that I agree with you and religion is not bad, we make it bad... Guns are not bad, self-defence, hunting, etc... we make it bad

Nature was never bad...we MADE it bad... get the point brah?

 

[The 2g]

My point is, even if you take religion from people, they will still find something to give them a reason to do those "evil things" you talked about. If you still don't understand me I am simply saying that I agree with you and religion is not bad, we make it bad... Guns are not bad, self-defence, hunting, etc... we make it bad

Nature was never bad...we MADE it bad... get the point brah?

Exactly, plus if you take religion away from people, they don't "fear" a higher power, other than the government ofc.

 

[SmokeHut]

Where I agree with what diamond is saying. It's not the stand point for most people who are against religion to remove it completely. It's secular, and to remove it from schools and government.

Religion has no place of authority over the masses, it is simply a fairytale a lot of people believe. Kids shouldn't be forced to learn about these things as truth, and it should be more referred to as fictional history.

 

Yes I know, I'm not saying that religions create violence, infact i am saying the exact opposite, but im wondering why people would think having NO religions whatsoever would be a good idea, even if you don't believe in that religion, it helps millions stay on a "straight" path

Also, yes guns don't kill people, but it helps people kill a lot more people.

I'm a strong atheist, I have no religious and few superstitious beliefs.

Yet I have principles, which I've come to through an in-depth study of ethics.

 

[tMoon]

Religion is not some inherently evil institution and good values can be found throughout various religious works.

Now, religion may give people a purpose, something to live for, whatever, but it is not a sole factor in keeping people moral and ethical. I know plenty of people (myself included) who do not let religion factor in their morale code in anyway and I consider them (and myself) very good, morale & ethical people. A lot of religious beliefs require individuals to not do things that in many cases would not even be illegal/immoral. Ex: Christianity tells people to stay abstinent. Having sex is no way immoral or unethical and IMO it is a shit doctrine.

Religion may provide motivation for people to give to the poor, help the needy, that kind of thing, but I would argue that without religion the same people, doing those same acts, would continue to do so. They just choose to do said acts in the name of their religion. As for the fundamentalists in religions whom are literally killing each other, I'm not-so-sure they would be doing the same without their (skewed) religion.

Religion has just brought a lot of strife into the world and is something used to comfort people about death, and as something to control people by the masses into believing what is right and wrong.

Also, one gripe I have with religion is that every religion thinks they are THE religion. Their religion has it all right, the millions-on-millions of people following other religious are completely ignorant and are all going to hell (or whatever).

 

Put simply, the ideas and morals behind religion are good. They're simple but meaningful one liners "Treat others as you wish to be treated" and whatnot. The problem lies in the dedication some people have. This runs true for politics. Differing ideas, albeit not a bad thing in the slightest, tend to arouse arguments, especially heated when it is over a topic that so many people invest a lot in, religion, politics, etc.

A prime example: I was in a friends chat yesterday when someone randomly said "Question: abortion. murder or no?" you had 3-4 people respond yes or no, and immediately someone said "yes it is you sick fuck". People are very dedicated and invested in some things, and sometimes are unable to comprehend and listen to other opinions. For that reason, our own shear inability to be understanding, is why religion is a downfall.

 

[SoSoX]

My personal view is that humans are the issue, not the religion, it's like thinking about terrorism, why do a certain few do it? and not the rest? Is it not the same religion they are aspiring from? or is it those certain few human's that create their own viewpoint, their own aspect, their own extremism.

Yes, there are a few religions that have strict aspect as in, Adultery is sin, sex before marriage, etc, many of what religious aspect says is to keep humans in line, think about it, if we never had a way to "rid" of pre-marriage birth, or birth control, we would be drowning in ourselves, if abortion (not in all birth cases) never happened, or birth control, is what I mean. If people were to keep to the guidelines of religion, would we need to deal with that or the issues that arise from Adultery, etc.

I have come across a few people who have said to me that I am the reason why there are issues, depending on my belief, yet I don't participate in anything they have assumed to me being an issue of. For instance terrorism. The general view with these people, who are racist, or of different mind in believing Religion is an issue, is purely on the belief that they take the minority and relate it to the majority, therefore assuming it is all those who believe, and that religion is the reason behind their tactics in causing worldy issues (terrorism), but of course it doesn't make sense, because why aren't the billions of other religious people not doing the same?

It doesn't make any sense to me why people would want to rid of religion from life, when many are practicing, of good faith and healthy minded people.

I do understand that in schools and in curriculum it is a different story, but to depict these teaching methods as "fairytales" as Smoke Hut referred it too, is somewhat absurd in my opinion. Being as I do believe it sets good moral practices and principles, not only that, that parents teach their children, and learning about other religions as your own belief, makes us one with each other on earth, and not so discriminative against others, and their beliefs.

 

Religion doesn't cause bad things to happen, organised religion does. It draws lines and separates groups of people.

Religion should be purely personal.

 

[ilovegold69]

What do you mean by organised religion? You mean like church gatherings etc?

Church is far beyond the limit of unorganized religion.

If you want to believe in X just please don't try to impose the morals you derive from X on me or anyone else. This includes but is not limited to the following: drugs, abortion, gay marriage, religious shit on official government anything(money flags etc.). I don't care if 95% of your state is protestant, a poster of jesus in a classroom anywhere is wrong. If you pull your child out of class because they are being taught evolution you are doing your children a disservice and fuck you. If you don't vaccinate your children fuck you. If you hit your children fuck you (I don't care if you were hit as a child and you turned out fine).

I also do not care if you choose to be catholic and don't want your tax money to fund abortion programs for teenage girls, if you can't vote without removing your religious bias please don't vote at all.

This should be a global rule for everyone everywhere at all times on all laws and in the manner which you treat other human beings forever.

 

[The 2g]

Church is far beyond the limit of unorganized religion.

If you want to believe in X just please don't try to impose the morals you derive from X on me or anyone else. This includes but is not limited to the following: drugs, abortion, gay marriage, religious shit on official government anything(money flags etc.). I don't care if 95% of your state is protestant, a poster of jesus in a classroom anywhere is wrong. If you pull your child out of class because they are being taught evolution you are doing your children a disservice and fuck you. If you don't vaccinate your children fuck you. If you hit your children fuck you (I don't care if you were hit as a child and you turned out fine).

I also do not care if you choose to be catholic and don't want your tax money to fund abortion programs for teenage girls, if you can't vote without removing your religious bias please don't vote at all.

This should be a global rule for everyone everywhere at all times on all laws and in the manner which you treat other human beings forever.

I agreed with everything u said except hitting your kids, kid should be taught discipline, and with some kids words are not enough.

 

[ilovegold69]

I agreed with everything u said except hitting your kids, kid should be taught discipline, and with some kids words are not enough.

If you are put into a position where your child will not listen to anything except physical abuse you have already fucked up. The only thing you teach your child by hitting them is that you are stronger than they are and they should listen to you or they will be in pain. This is neither nurturing nor a mentally stable position for any child to be in and will inevitably fuck up something later on in life. A society who relies on physical abuse for punishment is only teaching the younger population how to get their way with violence.

Do not ever ever ever ever hit your children for any reason at all. On the surface it seems to solve the problem but you're just painting over the problem with other problems.

Source: I am studying early childhood development

edit: if you need help managing a child who will not listen to you without corporal punishment please seek help from a counselor because the odds are that the problems are not with your child (they are with you)

and yes I am telling you how to raise your children and no I don't give a fuck

 

[The 2g]

If you are put into a position where your child will not listen to anything except physical abuse you have already fucked up. The only thing you teach your child by hitting them is that you are stronger than they are and they should listen to you or they will be in pain. This is neither nurturing nor a mentally stable position for any child to be in and will inevitably fuck up something later on in life. A society who relies on physical abuse for punishment is only teaching the younger population how to get their way with violence.

Do not ever ever ever ever hit your children for any reason at all. On the surface it seems to solve the problem but you're just painting over the problem with other problems.

Source: I am studying early childhood development

edit: if you need help managing a child who will not listen to you without corporal punishment please seek help from a counselor because the odds are that the problems are not with your child (they are with you)

and yes I am telling you how to raise your children and no I don't give a fuck

It's not fucking beating up ur kids its just a little spank here or there or a slap once in a while, your opinion is very close minded and i hope your kids turn out spoiled and you will see where you went wrong.

 

[ilovegold69]

It's not fucking beating up ur kids its just a little spank here or there or a slap once in a while

I never said anything about beating up your kids. If you 'beat up' your children you need to be put in prison, not slapped on the wrist and sent to counseling.

As far as just 'a little spank' or 'a slap here or there' it's still fucked up and you're still teaching your children that corporal punishment is okay. Your children are still developing in a hostile environment and won't learn proper anger control.

Your opinion is very close minded

How is saying that children should not be struck by adults close-minded? I think that it's savage behavior to take the easy way out of dealing with children by hitting them. Don't you think you're a little close-minded by thinking there are scenarios in your son/daughter's life where the only solution is to slap them? If you want to fling shit in your house go ahead but please don't subject your children to such primitive behaviors.

i hope your kids turn out spoiled and you will see where you went wrong.

Wow, okay well I hope your children don't grow up being abused by their parent.

 

Is it just me or is this going off-topic?

Are we relating child beating/abusing/punishment within the bad that religions can bring, or just your sole opinions on what you may or may not do with your children?

I don't think any religion allows it. Yet history teaches that the way to make a child listen is to punish in some way or form.. but that's still going off-topic.


I don't believe religion brings evil, it's the people that do.

It's like saying those who don't have a defined religion and they kill, or they do good, you can't relate it back to a religion because they don't have a defined religion

 

[The 2g]

I never said anything about beating up your kids. If you 'beat up' your children you need to be put in prison, not slapped on the wrist and sent to counseling.

As far as just 'a little spank' or 'a slap here or there' it's still fucked up and you're still teaching your children that corporal punishment is okay. Your children are still developing in a hostile environment and won't learn proper anger control.



How is saying that children should not be struck by adults close-minded? I think that it's savage behavior to take the easy way out of dealing with children by hitting them. Don't you think you're a little close-minded by thinking there are scenarios in your son/daughter's life where the only solution is to slap them? If you want to fling shit in your house go ahead but please don't subject your children to such primitive behaviors.



Wow, okay well I hope your children don't grow up being abused by their parent.

Do you have kids? I highly doubt it. I know kids that have never been "hit" by their parents and only like grounded, or given a speech about something they did wrong. They turned out like little pieces of shit. People who were taught discipline as a child, including being hit and even yelled at turn out way better. The world is a fucked up place the least thing you will be worried about is that one time ur dad slapped you

 

[tMoon]

My personal view is that humans are the issue, not the religion, it's like thinking about terrorism, why do a certain few do it? and not the rest? Is it not the same religion they are aspiring from? or is it those certain few human's that create their own viewpoint, their own aspect, their own extremism.

I just want to touch on the terrorism aspect.

Terrorists are often not apart of said group because they truly agree with the fundamentalist religious principles the group teaches. There are a variety of studies on terrorism, what makes people join groups, etc. but many (including myself) believe it comes down to the social unit. Terrorist organizations are often filled with people who didn't fit in with mainstream society and felt like outcasts (even when wealthy, educated, etc.) There's a reason numerous members of terrorist groups cannot even recite passages from their holy book to which they're so devoted.

Is it just me or is this going off-topic?

Incredibly off topic, but IMO worth the response (but we should totally get back on topic.

Do you have kids? I highly doubt it. I know kids that have never been "hit" by their parents and only like grounded, or given a speech about something they did wrong. They turned out like little pieces of shit. People who were taught discipline as a child, including being hit and even yelled at turn out way better. The world is a fucked up place the least thing you will be worried about is that one time ur dad slapped you

Your argument is based on your - very limited - personal experience. You knowing someone who wasn't physically hit and turned into a "little pieces of shit" hardly prove your point. You can be taught discipline and respect without laying your hands on a child (or anyone for that matter). Physical (or any kind of) violence is quite often not the answer and it is certainly not the answer when dealing with children.

ILovegold is right and numerous studies have shown positive reinforcement and not hitting your children to "show them a lesson" is significantly more effective in raising children.

If you care to continue this discussion, may I suggest a new thread.

Ps. I lol'd at you calling Gold close-minded when you are the one arguing the generally conservative (and arguably close-minded) approach.

 

[ilovegold69]

Do you have kids? I highly doubt it. I know kids that have never been "hit" by their parents and only like grounded, or given a speech about something they did wrong. They turned out like little pieces of shit. People who were taught discipline as a child, including being hit and even yelled at turn out way better. The world is a fucked up place the least thing you will be worried about is that one time ur dad slapped you

Oh, you KNOW kids who are spoiled and didn't get hit? And you just decided that the reason they're pieces of shit is because their parent didn't hit them enough? Frankly, that's retarded and this is no longer an intelligent discussion. I am claiming that a parents should not hit their children because it isn't nurturing, it's an easy way to temporarily solve a complex problem that all parents need to deal with, and it's monkey like shit flinging behavior. You, on the other hand, are claiming that you know that kids are spoiled and the only way to stop them from being little shits is to slap the little shit out of them.

And no I don't have kids but what the fuck does that matter? I have already stated that I am studying early childhood development and if you are saying that having kids automatically makes you intelligible on how to raise your children, I have no business being in this conversation.

If you have kids and you think that hitting them is the only way to teach them discipline then you have failed as a parent as far as I am concerned. I don't care how many 'little shits' you know that 'weren't hit enough', and I don't know how many 'little shits' you have/hit frequently. Hitting a child is wrong just the same as fighting a child or having sex with a child is wrong. We have rules protecting minors for a reason, and that reason is that they're still developing and learning social behaviors (from their parents especially). And they haven't developed enough to be held completely accountable for their decisions. Any child who is parented correctly can go through childhood never being intentionally hit by their parents.

Parenting is hard. Don't hit your kids.

EDIT: OT moved to thread here