@Sythe/Richard Let's have a debate.

DebateVader · Oct 4, 2013

Okay, here's the deal. You're going to be like I don't negotiate with terrorist blah blah blah i'm sure and this will be a huge waste of time.

We can make a poll after this, majority wins?

No one is going to be bashing you here, just a simple fair debate and everyone will drop the complaints they have after if or anyone else on the staff team that is on your side wins.

If they do I vow, never to hack any skypes, sythes, or make another vader account.

@Staff, don't be stupid and ban this account when I can make 100's more it doesn't do anything.

Okay, Richard here is my problem.

1. Viou

I never read Viou's guide but from what I believe he bought gold from account recovers, hackers, ect.

He put so much time into your website, he stopped a freaking OMM before scamming, never scammed a dime, i'm sure anyone on here would still trust him more then 99% of your staff.

You made an example out of someone you shouldn't of, and that was pretty unfair of you, when I have always said to anyone on skype that talked badly about you, that you try to treat everyone fairly.
That was pretty ridiculous, it's ignorant to think that every gold buyer hasn't knowingly bought stolen gold.
He simply brought it to light, nothing he should of been permanently banned for especially not him. he really put effort into the site and loved it, if you had asked him for a loan to keep it up and running he would of done it in a heart beat. Pretty shallow I think to keep him banned.

2. Just un dude

He sold duped gold as A LOT of sythe users did including n4n0, but he was questioned about it.

At the time Karl was in a bad financial situation and still owes $ to Arcus Isidar.

They asked just un dude, is your money from the crucible dupe on runscape, he said no. That was the only thing ever asked, is your money from that dupe?

The answer was no he got it through another dupe, A LOT of people sold here and Karl needed the money and was mad Just un dude didn't tell him how to do it so he could have money. Karl made up rumors about him a global mod, and just un dude pm'ed him calling him a liar and was banned.

Every staff dislike him for one reason or another and hold a personal grudge against him because of it.

LOTS of big names also bought the duped gold at a very cheap price and never said they were selling duped gold.

3. R2P section 1 of many.

Businesses/Partnerships: Anyone running a business or partnered service implicitly agrees to share responsibility for the actions of their co-owners, as well as any workers they employ. Thus, if a partner or worker scams, all owners of the business will be banned until the debt is repaid. Workers, however, are not liable for anyone's actions but their own (although it is up to the staff to determine who falls into that category).

That is a NEWLY added rule added when I did this and scammed billions.

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1143231-onex-dalpra.html

So, in 2010 R2P can't be held responsible for that.

3. R2P section 2.

I can't honestly find the thread I'm sure some staff will remember.

R2P use to sell accounts and said anytime in the future you need the account recovered, I will do it.

2 years later, someone comes here, and R2P says sucks out of luck basically and staff rules in his favor because the recovery method has changed.

He didn't have to pay a dime back thats all fine but R2P specifically stated ANYTIME in the future.

3. R2P section 3.

Traxar

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1634712-r2pleasent.html

They are making a trade, r2p is on the account with the gold, the account is banned before gold is moved off.

R2P offers the kid a measly $300 after digging up some proof of the blackhat just to short him.

R2P says in that thread "the phat is most likely stolen property" and was trying to weasel his way out of paying. That was the point he tried to make the phat appear stolen, so he wouldn't have to pay.

But ass soon as the account got unbanned and the money was there R2P didn't care if it was most likely stolen property or not, he just bought it.
He didn't care if it was most likely stolen property or not, and I'm sure we can all agree it was lol judging by traxar's answers.

He tried to weasel his way out of it by saying its stolen, he didn't have to pay, he bought the most likely stolen shit.

3. R2P section 4.

I don't know all the information about this, but basically R2P fucked up a 50b trade with someone we don't know if on purpose or not but the seller lost 20k, Grave made a thread moved to SL and dismiissed because he is R2P and is above the rules.

3. R2P section 5.

After Viou was banned you gave everyone an amnesty period to clean up there workers stuff.

I clearly state " I hope my friend isn't mad his stuff is missing" thats pretty obvious that I'm not allowed to sell it and that I stole it from my friend.

the other chat disconnected but I should of videoed to begin with thats my fault.

She even agreed to give me $50 for it, because I didn't know the price, that's igorant of me but pretty shady of her to just be like yeah, I'll give you $50 for the stuff that's worth over $500 resale for us, she knew I didn't know the price and said that that's pretty sly to rip me off because of my ignorance of the price.

R2P always brings up the language barrier, but she has been working for R2P for 4 years, and she still can't speak English well enough to understand what I said?

He just uses that as an excuse anyone with a brain can realize that.

You gave them an amnesty period, that period is up. He hasn't cleaned up the act. If I had any gold I would of sold it to them it was just to prove that they are willing to take stolen property. There is no difference between being willing to and doing it, morally wise.

R2P should at least be serving a 2 week ban for his conduct and not cleaning up his act.

3. R2P section 6.

Hiring Graves worker when he was still under contract with Grave again, Grave can speak more about this if he wants too.

All in all, both those users should be unbanned and r2p be banned.

If anyone has any questions or concerns you should feel free to contact me at skype

Martinzemoney

Sythe · Oct 4, 2013

DebateVader said:
Okay, here's the deal. You're going to be like I don't negotiate with terrorist blah blah blah i'm sure and this will be a huge waste of time.

We can make a poll after this, majority wins?

No one is going to be bashing you here, just a simple fair debate and everyone will drop the complaints they have after if or anyone else on the staff team that is on your side wins.

If they do I vow, never to hack any skypes, sythes, or make another vader account.

@Staff, don't be stupid and ban this account when I can make 100's more it doesn't do anything.

Okay, Richard here is my problem.

You certainly think a lot of yourself. I'll address this but it's the last time.

1. Viou
I never read Viou's guide but from what I believe he bought gold from account recovers, hackers, ect.

He put so much time into your website, he stopped a freaking OMM before scamming, never scammed a dime, i'm sure anyone on here would still trust him more then 99% of your staff.

You made an example out of someone you shouldn't of, and that was pretty unfair of you, when I have always said to anyone on skype that talked badly about you, that you try to treat everyone fairly.
That was pretty ridiculous, it's ignorant to think that every gold buyer hasn't knowingly bought stolen gold.
He simply brought it to light, nothing he should of been permanently banned for especially not him. he really put effort into the site and loved it, if you had asked him for a loan to keep it up and running he would of done it in a heart beat. Pretty shallow I think to keep him banned.

He wrote a how-to-scam guide. Anyone who wrote and published such a guide would have been banned. It is your opinion that he was made an example of. But in actual fact he was banned because he published a how-to-scam guide. We had no choice but to ban him. I'm sorry that you and others feel for whatever reason that it is unfair. But, as you said, you didn't read the guide, so your feelings are frankly Free Hat.

We don't like banning people for honest mistakes. We generally give the benefit of the doubt. We generally bend over backwards to help people right their wrongs. Sometimes there's no way to make it right, and in that case a ban is necessary.

2. Just un dude
He sold duped gold as A LOT of sythe users did including n4n0, but he was questioned about it.

At the time Karl was in a bad financial situation and still owes $ to Arcus Isidar.

They asked just un dude, is your money from the crucible dupe on runscape, he said no. That was the only thing ever asked, is your money from that dupe?

The answer was no he got it through another dupe, A LOT of people sold here and Karl needed the money and was mad Just un dude didn't tell him how to do it so he could have money. Karl made up rumors about him a global mod, and just un dude pm'ed him calling him a liar and was banned.

Every staff dislike him for one reason or another and hold a personal grudge against him because of it.

LOTS of big names also bought the duped gold at a very cheap price and never said they were selling duped gold.

As I've said repeatedly before: If you lead the buyer to believe what you are selling is X and it is actually Y, and you know it is Y and Y is different to X in some fundamental and substantial way then this is fraud. And to answer the complaint that he was only ever asked if it was the crucible dupe: Fraud by omission is still fraud.

I have not heard a convincing argument as to why this member should be unbanned. His actions and deception caused many sythe users to lose money.

Further, if you can find victims of duped gold sold by other users and show that the sellers in those cases knew the duped gold was duped and therefore carried a higher risk of being reset, then by all means lets have those cases heard and adjudicated.

3. R2P section 1 of many.

Businesses/Partnerships: Anyone running a business or partnered service implicitly agrees to share responsibility for the actions of their co-owners, as well as any workers they employ. Thus, if a partner or worker scams, all owners of the business will be banned until the debt is repaid. Workers, however, are not liable for anyone's actions but their own (although it is up to the staff to determine who falls into that category).

That is a NEWLY added rule added when I did this and scammed billions.

Ok how about this: You give back the billions you scammed and then I'll respond to the rest of your stupid post.

DebateVader · Oct 4, 2013

1. I do think a lot of my self.

2. Can you post the guide, since Viou was going to.

3. Not a single person lost a penny, not a single user he sold gold to was banned. Anyone that bought gold for .15 cents a mil from just un dude's PA knew it was duped there was doubt. Sometimes there's something called logic mate.

Not a single person lost out on him doing that expect karl who wanted $.

Oh, okay ignore the section about R2P because you know I'm about to crush you.

Edit: IF you can actually find out how much $ I owe to you guys with proof, I'll heavily consider it since at this time my financial situation couldn't be better.

Sythe · Oct 4, 2013

DebateVader said:
1. I do think a lot of my self.

2. Can you post the guide, since Viou was going to.

3. Not a single person lost a penny, not a single user he sold gold to was banned. Anyone that bought gold for .15 cents a mil from just un dude's PA knew it was duped there was doubt. Sometimes there's something called logic mate.

Not a single person lost out on him doing that expect karl who wanted $.

Oh, okay ignore the section about R2P because you know I'm about to crush you.

I've had very little to do with any R2P cases or staff discussion, as you probably know. I wasn't even aware there were so many complaints until today.

I will be doing my own investigation, but I don't trust you for a second.

In fact I'm not even going to read your wall of text on him because you're a scammer. I'll let anyone who believes they have been wronged come forward and have their case heard again. And R2P will be given an opportunity to respond.

Ok fair is fair. You had your go, now please leave.