Staking Services Pt. 2

BMW just made a VERY good point, if this was allowed people could just do it with a friend, even on video, and that would mean whether they won or lost, they'd win the guys money, or some of it. Think about it, it would be so simple. Just have your friend sitting there, hell you could be streaming and on Skype at the same time. Very easy to rig it. Even if you could lose more than gain sometimes, the odds are in your favor, as if you win you get double, and if you lose, you lose less than the staked amount.

I don't see how a staking service is any worse than a dicing service, given the correct precautions and good communication.

 

[Lee Sin]

BMW just made a VERY good point, if this was allowed people could just do it with a friend, even on video, and that would mean whether they won or lost, they'd win the guys money, or some of it. Think about it, it would be so simple. Just have your friend sitting there, hell you could be streaming and on Skype at the same time. Very easy to rig it. Even if you could lose more than gain sometimes, the odds are in your favor, as if you win you get double, and if you lose, you lose less than the staked amount.

User can request to stake someone else if it seems fishy. Just as everyone else has said, its a give take service, and 'trust' per say is needed. Even with that said, Dialatics first post covers everything as to how it can be proven legitimate, avoiding any discrepancies and or scams.

 

[Ohhburned]

Sorry to "bump" this back up, but really any service has 50/50 chance of ending good or bad. Might as well close out the whole market threads. As you have a 50/50 chance of getting scammed with items,accounts,moneys,memberships, etc. Any Service on the market involves giving certain "trust" to the other trader. If people don't "trust" the Staking service; than dont use it. Simple as that, but again. I do think the ban on Staking Services should be talked about a little further as this does need addressed.

 

Sorry to "bump" this back up, but really any service has 50/50 chance of ending good or bad. Might as well close out the whole market threads. As you have a 50/50 chance of getting scammed with items,accounts,moneys,memberships, etc. Any Service on the market involves giving certain "trust" to the other trader. If people don't "trust" the Staking service; than dont use it. Simple as that, but again. I do think the ban on Staking Services should be talked about a little further as this does need addressed.

Exactly my point. Staking services are IN NO WAY riskier than any other service here on Sythe.

 

[BGlave]

I'm going to have to support this. I was shocked myself seeing a few peoples Staking Services get terminated because of this new "rule". Any method used on sythe whether it be account/money/virtual money/etc has its positives and negatives, If what Dialatic and a few others had said "strict rules" be implemented than i dont see no harm in it. But, as a few others said. We have barely any say, if Admins dont want it, than I guess we dont get it.





Okay g4u, some people dont feel like maxing out an account just to do some stakes. If the Service has a reputable amount of Vouch/Rep than I dont see no harm no foul.

Why would I give you money to stake for me, and you can somehow throw the stake by putting the style on defensive the whole time. Just an example, while you're facing your friend. There's so many ways to throw a stake without the user doing the service even knowing. This is just idiotic and I can see a lot of problems just coming from this alone.

 

Why would I give you money to stake for me, and you can somehow throw the stake by putting the style on defensive the whole time. Just an example, while you're facing your friend. There's so many ways to throw a stake without the user doing the service even knowing. This is just idiotic and I can see a lot of problems just coming from this alone.

Request video evidence of the duel.

What other objections do you have?

 

Why would I give you money to stake for me, and you can somehow throw the stake by putting the style on defensive the whole time. Just an example, while you're facing your friend. There's so many ways to throw a stake without the user doing the service even knowing. This is just idiotic and I can see a lot of problems just coming from this alone.

How many times do I have to say it...

VIDEO PROOF IS/SHOULD BE REQUIRED.

 

[BGlave]

You're saying it's impossible to fake a video?

There's just too many problems that can come of this.

 

It's not impossible, but it would take a lot longer than a real duel I would assume...

 

[0x Trinity]

Simple as this...

A staking service is just as risky as any other service. Almost all service's involve trusting another user with your money/items etc.

I don't see why this should get banned. If you don't trust the person providing the service, then just don't use it.

 

[BGlave]

Simple as this...

A staking service is just as risky as any other service. Almost all service's involve trusting another user with your money/items etc.

I don't see why this should get banned. If you don't trust the person providing the service, then just don't use it.

Yes, but this could involve a lot of money.

More money more problems.

I cannot create a strong argument against this just because it's just a service that's more risky than gambling itself.

 

In the last thread FireZ said there was a staff lounge discussion on the matter. Are we allowed to know what has been decided? Or has it still not been decided yet?

 

[Ohhburned]

Yes, but this could involve a lot of money.

More money more problems.

I cannot create a strong argument against this just because it's just a service that's more risky than gambling itself.

You pretty much contradicted yourself with that statement. Staking is a form of Gambling, its a win or lose. Just as dicing, just as any other service.

Accounts = Win or Lose, you can either Have a successful trade and not get scammed, or get charged back or lose rsgp and get scammed.
Buying RSGP = Win or Lose, You can sometimes put your hands into a "trusted" seller, but sometimes people get hacked; thus its still not safe. But Again, You buy gold, the buyer gets the gold, and his money back = Win win for the buyer and a negative balance for the seller.
And amongst those: Items, Skilling, Questing, EVEN MMing. You have a chance at losing something.

Say for Ex. You are having someone do some Skilling and questing, The Person Skilling sees an opportunity to steal someones bank; say like 400M cash and alot of others adding up to 1b+. He steals it, your gain = none the Person doing the service = Gained alot. MMing, same deal(Especially account/Money/Item Trades), Although MMing should be completely safe, there are those still looking for a gain. Thus, no service remains Safe.

Whats different about Staking, you either have a win/lose opportunity. You can either both make a gain, or lose. (Gain as in 10% fee for the person performing the service such as Folt, and so on).

On the Market, you for the most part are looking to get a gain out of any service, none of them are completely legitimately safe. Its all about a risk factor. You either go to someone whom you believe is someone "safe" to do your trades with, or you get scammed like the rest of the poor saps in the "Report a Scammer" section.

It needs to be readdressed.

 

Let's bump this up, please.

 

[just un dude]

I don't see why anyone would use a staking service with someone that they don't trust in the first place. If you're even the slighest bit suspicious or skeptical just don't use it right?

 

[Ohhburned]

I don't see why anyone would use a staking service with someone that they don't trust in the first place. If you're even the slighest bit suspicious or skeptical just don't use it right?

^ This exactly. If you dont feel safe with the service, dont use it.

@Admins/Mods

As Dialatic wanted to know, when will we hear about the closing statement of Staking Services.. Will they be returned? or Still Banned from sythe.

 

[BGlave]

You pretty much contradicted yourself with that statement. Staking is a form of Gambling, its a win or lose. Just as dicing, just as any other service.

Accounts = Win or Lose, you can either Have a successful trade and not get scammed, or get charged back or lose rsgp and get scammed.
Buying RSGP = Win or Lose, You can sometimes put your hands into a "trusted" seller, but sometimes people get hacked; thus its still not safe. But Again, You buy gold, the buyer gets the gold, and his money back = Win win for the buyer and a negative balance for the seller.
And amongst those: Items, Skilling, Questing, EVEN MMing. You have a chance at losing something.

Say for Ex. You are having someone do some Skilling and questing, The Person Skilling sees an opportunity to steal someones bank; say like 400M cash and alot of others adding up to 1b+. He steals it, your gain = none the Person doing the service = Gained alot. MMing, same deal(Especially account/Money/Item Trades), Although MMing should be completely safe, there are those still looking for a gain. Thus, no service remains Safe.

Whats different about Staking, you either have a win/lose opportunity. You can either both make a gain, or lose. (Gain as in 10% fee for the person performing the service such as Folt, and so on).

On the Market, you for the most part are looking to get a gain out of any service, none of them are completely legitimately safe. Its all about a risk factor. You either go to someone whom you believe is someone "safe" to do your trades with, or you get scammed like the rest of the poor saps in the "Report a Scammer" section.

It needs to be readdressed.

I'm not sure if you understand what I was trying to say. *FACEDESK*

I understand staking is gambling, but what I meant by "It's riskier than gambling itself" meant you have two things to worry about.

Either the person staking for you to win, or if they give you the money.

The reason why it's banned was because it's easy to fraud, not saying you guys did such a thing, but it's just another thing to worry about since it falls under investing.

I get that you guys are a bit mad since you could of made money without caring or losing without caring.

I'd rather dice even though the odds are against me, than use a staking service where there's 2 obstacles you must try to foresee.

The point is, it's just more trouble to worry about and goes against investing..

 

[Ohhburned]

I'm not sure if you understand what I was trying to say. *FACEDESK*

I understand staking is gambling, but what I meant by "It's riskier than gambling itself" meant you have two things to worry about.

Either the person staking for you to win, or if they give you the money.

The reason why it's banned was because it's easy to fraud, not saying you guys did such a thing, but it's just another thing to worry about since it falls under investing.

I get that you guys are a bit mad since you could of made money without caring or losing without caring.

I'd rather dice even though the odds are against me, than use a staking service where there's 2 obstacles you must try to foresee.

The point is, it's just more trouble to worry about and goes against investing..

Made Money? I don't own or operate a staking service.
From someone among the forums viewing peoples biases such as this.
People believe staking is some sort of Investment. Well, Gambling
is an Investment. You bet a set amount of money, and you expect to
see profit on that amount. If the person operating the service
loses during a Duel, than you both lose. Thats the only thing
I see as an investment. Its lesson learned. Its either you win or
lose. In anything really. Dicing, you win or lose. Staking,
you win or lose.

So before someone comes along and says, "Staking is an Investment/Gambling".

Gambling is an Investment itself..

Whether it be your doing it yourself, or allowing someone with
higher opportunity to possibly win you double minus 10% (In Which some services charge)

EDIT: And just to remain clear.
While you probably wasnt just pointing me out about operating the sevice.
But,

People look at it as if they're not actually risking something daily.

Say someone's buying/Selling an account. You have that risk of getting scammed.
Say someone's Buying/Selling some gold/items. You have that risk of getting scammed.

And I could go on, but it would be pointless.

Just for someone being against staking services doesnt mean take it away..

 

[BGlave]

Made Money? I don't own or operate a staking service.
From someone among the forums viewing peoples biases such as this.
People believe staking is some sort of Investment. Well, Gambling
is an Investment. You bet a set amount of money, and you expect to
see profit on that amount. If the person operating the service
loses during a Duel, than you both lose. Thats the only thing
I see as an investment. Its lesson learned. Its either you win or
lose. In anything really. Dicing, you win or lose. Staking,
you win or lose.

So before someone comes along and says, "Staking is an Investment/Gambling".

Gambling is an Investment itself..

Whether it be your doing it yourself, or allowing someone with
higher opportunity to possibly win you double minus 10% (In Which some services charge)

Gambling isn't an investment fellow.

Gambling, as defined by any reputable dictionary, is the act of betting on an uncertain outcome.

Investing means committing money in order to earn a financial return.

The definitions seem to indicate a higher element of chance or randomness in gambling, while investing appears to be more rational.

The best way to reinforce the investing vs gambling difference is to look at a simple analogy.

Let's consider the flipping of a coin. There is an equal chance (or probability) of "heads" or "tails."

But what if the coin were biased? In other words, what if the coin were weighted such that it had a much higher chance of showing us "heads"?

Now the coin flipping is no longer random. Picking "heads" greatly increases your odds of winning.

Although they are alike, they aren't the same, but can be considered the same under conditions.

 

[Ohhburned]

Gambling You put money up in hope to reach a gain.
Investment, again. You put money in hope to reach again.

Your "Analogy's" may say different. But your putting a risk factor in each.