Scammed and question

[fatgarbage]

Please move this if it is in the wrong section, I was unable to find an appropriate section.

So about a month and a half ago, I got scammed out of a red party hat through someone on here(And it has been bugging me ever since). I was blinded by greed and stupidly gave them the hat before picking up the cash promised from WU.

I have emails, messages on here, and multiple phone calls of them saying they will pay me etc. and WU having record proof of the buyer never making the trans action.

IS there anyway I can do more than just getting them banned from just Sythe?I just feel like a lawsuit, let a lone a international one can even work for me in this situation. And I am aware buying/selling RS items is against Jagexs' ToS, so I feel like, that just screws me over even more.

Thank you,
Ryan.

 

[Rabadooster]

Hiring a lawyer will be expensive, tracking him down will be hard and timewasting, what you're doing is illegal in the first place (rwt), and the judge will laugh at you for getting scammed a paper hat lol. Not worth your time just get him banned on sythe

 

[DMR]

Just can get him banned and sad to hear your loss. Hopefully, you continue trading and trade safely this time.

Rabadooster summed it up for real life court stuff although RWT is not illegal but against JaGeX's ToS.

 

[cosrob97]

In short, yes you can sue them, but by the sounds of it you bought it from somebody in another country and if that's the case it won't be worth doing so. If they're from the same state as you or you're willing to travel to his state you can sue them. Just represent your self in court with proof you traded the person in real life and he failed to fulfill the agreement and surely you will win. Btw, the Jagex Tos says you can't trade won't affect you in court, it's like stealing from a drug dealer - you can't do it because he's a drug dealer.

 

[malakadang]

In short, yes you can sue them, but by the sounds of it you bought it from somebody in another country and if that's the case it won't be worth doing so. If they're from the same state as you or you're willing to travel to his state you can sue them. Just represent your self in court with proof you traded the person in real life and he failed to fulfill the agreement and surely you will win. Btw, the Jagex Tos says you can't trade won't affect you in court, it's like stealing from a drug dealer - you can't do it because he's a drug dealer.

Jagex's Tos explicitly states that all property is owned by Jagex. Selling someone elses property is most certainly against the law.

 

[Deathsnova]

Unfortunetly, no.
I would just compile your evidence and submit a scam report to stop others from being scammed.

 

[-Arial-]

Just do the community a favour and have him banned from sythe.

Filing a lawsuit wouldn't be worth the time, effort, and costs.

 

[cosrob97]

Jagex's Tos explicitly states that all property is owned by Jagex. Selling someone elses property is most certainly against the law.

That wouldn't come up in the case. If jagex wanted to sue him for doing that then they would, but the scammer can't use it in his defence "I stole his money because a ToS said blah blah". Also, it wouldn't work for him because he agreed to the Tos stating he wouldn't violate it, but engaging in the agreement to trade the phat for rl money violates it.

If you go to judge judy or something (idk American court system) you will easily win (assuming you have enough proof).

 

[malakadang]

That wouldn't come up in the case. If jagex wanted to sue him for doing that then they would, but the scammer can't use it in his defence "I stole his money because a ToS said blah blah". Also, it wouldn't work for him because he agreed to the Tos stating he wouldn't violate it, but engaging in the agreement to trade the phat for rl money violates it.

True, but, you would be less inclined to sue should the other person threaten to counter sue. Also, you have no damages, you owned nothing and therefore you lost nothing. Violating the tos or not, the property is that of Jagex's not any other party.

If you go to judge judy or something (idk American court system) you will easily win (assuming you have enough proof).

It really wouldn't be worth the effort IMO.

 

[cosrob97]

True, but, you would be less inclined to sue should the other person threaten to counter sue. Also, you have no damages, you owned nothing and therefore you lost nothing. Violating the tos or not, the property is that of Jagex's not any other party.

They can't counter sue for nothing. It may as well Jagex's property, but that doesn't mean you can't trick somebody to give away an object which they only had access to.

It's a tricky case, but has happened in a Dutch court and the judge ruled in favour of the boy who had the items.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/busted_for_stealing_pixels

It really wouldn't be worth the effort IMO.

Tbh, it's not hard at all and for 1k it's worth it.

 

[malakadang]

They can't counter sue for nothing. It may as well Jagex's property, but that doesn't mean you can't trick somebody to give away an object which they only had access to.

If you let me use your car, and I sell it, I am at fault as despite it being in my possession, it is still your car. That being said, the other party cannot refuse to pay because of that.

It's a tricky case, but has happened in a Dutch court and the judge ruled in favour of the boy who had the items.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/busted_for_stealing_pixels
Tbh, the Ratio decidendi does not carry through IMO. Not only did the defense present an entirely different case, the perpetrator/victim knew each other IRL. It's no question the person has no right to steal, period. But, steal from who? Jagex, or the other trader.

Tbh, it's not hard at all and for 1k it's worth it.

It's not just about suing, who would you sue? You don't know who they are. You'd have to go through an arduous process to obtain the IP/contact details of the other party, by doing this you'd more than likely have to contact the police, or a company, perhaps the internet or telephone one. You'd then have to file, and the chances of it being international are quite high. A Language barrier may be a small issue, the fact that you're from out of town will be unless you present your case over Skype, you will rack up a bill far greater than the reward SHOULD you win + forgo your local employment, and even if the defendant lives in your state, what a waste of time!

 

[cosrob97]

If you let me use your car, and I sell it, I am at fault as despite it being in my possession, it is still your car. That being said, the other party cannot refuse to pay because of that.

It's a tricky case, but has happened in a Dutch court and the judge ruled in favour of the boy who had the items.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/busted_for_stealing_pixels
Tbh, the Ratio decidendi does not carry through IMO. Not only did the defense present an entirely different case, the perpetrator/victim knew each other IRL. It's no question the person has no right to steal, period. But, steal from who? Jagex, or the other trader.

It's not just about suing, who would you sue? You don't know who they are. You'd have to go through an arduous process to obtain the IP/contact details of the other party, by doing this you'd more than likely have to contact the police, or a company, perhaps the internet or telephone one. You'd then have to file, and the chances of it being international are quite high. A Language barrier may be a small issue, the fact that you're from out of town will be unless you present your case over Skype, you will rack up a bill far greater than the reward SHOULD you win + forgo your local employment, and even if the defendant lives in your state, what a waste of time!

Okay read this report on it. It proves "Apparently, the issue wasn't the assault on the lad, but on whether virtual items should be considered tangible goods that can be stolen. The prosecutor argued because the items have value to the owner, they should be considered real and tangible. He also noted Runescape objects can be sold for money in the real world."


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/22/teens_sentenced_for_runescape_item_theft/.



In my original post I stated if you live in his state or willing to fly to it (there are cheap flight) you could do it and if he lived overseas it's not worth it. A simple link people email he used on sythe and it links to his facebook account should be enough (not 100% sure).

 

[malakadang]

Okay read this report on it. It proves "Apparently, the issue wasn't the assault on the lad, but on whether virtual items should be considered tangible goods that can be stolen. The prosecutor argued because the items have value to the owner, they should be considered real and tangible. He also noted Runescape objects can be sold for money in the real world."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/22/teens_sentenced_for_runescape_item_theft/.

I read that the issue was solely on the RS items, however, just because something has value to you doesn't mean its yours or actually has value! I'm sure If I loaned you a Lamborghini it'd have value to you be it intrinsic, or extrinsic, still not your right to sell it.

In my original post I stated if you live in his state or willing to fly to it (there are cheap flight) you could do it and if he lived overseas it's not worth it. A simple link people email he used on sythe and it links to his facebook account should be enough (not 100% sure).

Didn't read that part. I could give you my Sythe email, but could you garner enough information to file against me? Most corporations don't disclose their customers personal information unless the authorities are asking for it. Overall, even if the person was interstate, it would still be rather time consuming, too time consuming for my likes.

 

[cosrob97]

I read that the issue was solely on the RS items, however, just because something has value to you doesn't mean its yours or actually has value! I'm sure If I loaned you a Lamborghini it'd have value to you be it intrinsic, or extrinsic, still not your right to sell it.

The item does have a value, hence there being a market for it with other people buying it for a similar price. Anyways the example with a car is slightly different: the car was given for limited time and wasn't worked for but the party hat was worked for and was meant to be kept for as long as he wants.

The link provided should be more than enough proof you can sue the scammer for the phat. I'm done debating it lol.

 

[malakadang]

The item does have a value, hence there being a market for it with other people buying it for a similar price. Anyways the example with a car is slightly different: the car was given for limited time and wasn't worked for but the party hat was worked for and was meant to be kept for as long as he wants.

The link provided should be more than enough proof you can sue the scammer for the phat. I'm done debating it lol.

The party hat too is kept for a limited time, until Jagex closes the game down. Alright, xD.

 

[fatgarbage]

Thanks all, yeah sucks since it was my only hat on rs2 ever :[
I will work on getting picture's of the emails and try to get him banned (even though the kid deserves a lot more), but a lot of the talk took place via the phone.
Thank you all for the help.
-Ryan

 

[Shin]

Thanks all, yeah sucks since it was my only hat on rs2 ever :[
I will work on getting picture's of the emails and try to get him banned (even though the kid deserves a lot more), but a lot of the talk took place via the phone.
Thank you all for the help.
-Ryan

If you had spoken to him on the phone for the majority of the time, a good lawyer would most likely be able to get access to those phone records, which would only help with evidence.

If you have evidence of giving the buyer the party hat and/or any conversations that went on, it would be very beneficial to your case.

As with this person being on Sythe, you may also be able to gain access to his IP, but I am unsure.

It's never a good situation to be in, but for future reference, don't risk your wealth without using a very good, trusted Official Middleman. Yes, you may encounter fees, but it is worth using one over losing it all.