Rules of In-Game Activity

[Jake]

Staff members and users alike currently have no idea what the rules are on scamming/luring in game. There are no solid rules.

From the site owner himself:

The matter involves no element of RWT therefore we don't handle it. Complain to Jagex if you think a player has scammed you in-game.

Sythe is saying that he will not interfere with what goes on in-game.

Luring runescape players is condoned and even endorsed here at sythe, because it has nothing to do with sythe. On the other hand, sniping names from runescape players is not allowed and is considered scamming, even though it has nothing to do with sythe.

What are the rules on in game scamming?
The sythe.org rules mention nothing about it. The only credible source I could find is from sythe himself, as shown in the quote above. However, dozens of people have been banned for admitting to scamming in game in the past.






Here are some recent examples:



A sythe member was banned for buying names that had been sniped by someone else (in-game) that had nothing to do with sythe itself (no names had been owned by a sythe member).
Thread: http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1603285-scammer-jake-kastle.html

It is my opinion that the user knows full well the names he sells are contraband, and chooses to sell them anyway. He should be banned.

Here's a sythe member being banned for selling a guide to scamming merchbots: http://www.sythe.org/other-services/1669226-tricking-merchbot.html

No. I've told you already scamming ingame is not allowed.

On the other hand, the would-be bot scammers received no punishment because it is considered the same as luring.

It's basically tricking/scamming bots? As far as in-game scamming goes, we do allow luring so I'd say they're alright.

Frenzy is only following Richard's own rules on in-game scamming by making this post. However, if these members got off scot-free, then why was the guide seller permanently banned? Makes no sense.


The rules need to be updated to follow Richard's own policies or staff should consult with Richard and come up with a clear set of rules regarding in game activity.

 

Agreed, it is a grey area. Personally I think any admittance of scamming of any sort is the same as scamming someone on Sythe. Just as we ban for powerbot scams, blackhat off-site etc etc

 

[Time To Buy]

The grey area is really confusing for me sometimes.

So luring is allowed, but scamming in a trade screen is not? Luring is no longer in the wildy like it used to be, now they trick you into dropping your items or cash, which is basically the same thing is scamming in a trade screen!

This guy was banned for this post a long time ago (I only remember since he was one of the first people to vouch me)

most i was ever scammed for was 45M from someone on sythe with 50+ vouches... shows you cant trust anyone. but the worst i ever scammed someone in real RS was for a D2H the very first day that they came out way back when. i use to scam by offering a ridiculous number like 9900k, then i would remove some gp right before they clicked accept and it would really be 99004gp, so i ended um scamming him for a lot because i turned around and sold it to a guy for 15M. (which i ended up using to buy my first santa hat, which were only a little more that 15M at the time if im correct).

What he did is probably around the same concept that the guide would make you do in 2007scape to scam the merchbots-- tampering with the trade screen. So if connorf43 is banned for that, shouldn't all the people interested be banned for it too?
Yet at the same time, when people scammed green dragon bots before EOC, that was considered okay....isn't that the same thing as this???????? (People would do some shenanigans to get the bot into attacking them and then they would kill the bot and take its loot) Why are there so many conflicting areas?

[This post is going to turn into me rambling, sorry]
So I agree that the green dragon bot killers should remain unbanned, as that's just part of the game. But then, we have to allow the merchbot scamming too, right? But that opens up a whole new can of worms with allowing luring, trade scamming, ect, so we have to just put our foot down and decide completely one way or the other- Either allow in game scamming and consider it as part of the game, unbanning all that have been banned for it in the past OR disallow all forms of in game scamming, including glitching at Duel Arena / Luring, and all offenders that are currently on sythe would be allowed to remain as long as they don't continue to partake in such activites.

I've really put a lot of thought into this subject, it's been on my mind since 2011 when I made a thread to ban luring from sythe. I'm completely against luring, trade scamming, ect, and I hope that we decide that as a community we don't want to be associated with those who partake in such activities. However, I think it is of utmost importance that we are CONSISTENT with our rules, no matter which way we go. We can't ban people for some variations of things and then let it slide for others. Some might say he lured years ago ect ect, but that's what the pardon system is for! Ban them all and then let them pardon, that's where staff judgement into individual cases can come in. Whichever way we go, be it all ingame things allowed versus all of them being bannable, we just need to be consistent.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

When the forum is used to scam another user in-game, I believe it then becomes Sythe staff's business to intercede. As with my call on your previous ban, it was established that the names sniped were those posted on name-sales threads that were posted here at sythe. You were selling them and knew full well the illicit nature of the contraband, and was therefore labeled an accessory to the scam.

Now, if the in-game scamming-- name sniping, luring, etc.-- DOESN'T happen as a result of sythe.org interactions, then it's not staff's territory.


Say a user is caught luring another runescape player, and that player happens to be a sythe user as well.... There would be the two possible scenarios:

The meeting was pure chance, and the scamming player was not targeting sythe users specifically using the forums as a part of their scam. This should NOT be a ban.

OR, the user posts on a gold sales or items sales thread posted here at sythe, pretends to be interested, and then lures the sythe user, knowing full well that they're currently carrying the items which they showed interest in buying. Subsequently, their death ingame would mean the scammer would get the goods before paying for them. This SHOULD be a ban.


I feel this is how all in-game scamming cases should be handled: check to see if the scam originates at sythe.

 

[Jake]

When the forum is used to scam another user in-game, I believe it then becomes Sythe staff's business to intercede. As with my call on your previous ban, it was established that the names sniped were those posted on name-sales threads that were posted here at sythe. You were selling them and knew full well the illicit nature of the contraband, and was therefore labeled an accessory to the scam.

Now, if the in-game scamming-- name sniping, luring, etc.-- DOESN'T happen as a result of sythe.org interactions, then it's not staff's territory.


Say a user is caught luring another runescape player, and that player happens to be a sythe user as well.... There would be the two possible scenarios:

The meeting was pure chance, and the scamming player was not targeting sythe users specifically using the forums as a part of their scam. This should NOT be a ban.

OR, the user posts on a gold sales or items sales thread posted here at sythe, pretends to be interested, and then lures the sythe user, knowing full well that they're currently carrying the items which they showed interest in buying. Subsequently, their death ingame would mean the scammer would get the goods before paying for them. This SHOULD be a ban.


I feel this is how all in-game scamming cases should be handled: check to see if the scam originates at sythe.

My ban must've been a mistake then as I never bought/sold a name that was directly sniped from another sythe user.

 

I closed his thread on two occasions because I deemed it was of low morale value and against the rules in my opinion. I did not ban the user for scamming because it was in that grey area.

 

[Jake]

I closed his thread on two occasions because I deemed it was of low morale value and against the rules in my opinion. I did not ban the user for scamming because it was in that grey area.

I'm not saying what you did was wrong. I'd just like Richard/the staff to come to a clear consensus on whether in-game scamming/other activity is ban worthy or whether it should be left alone.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

My ban must've been a mistake then as I never bought/sold a name that was directly sniped from another sythe user.

I'm not saying that ban was a result of my opinion posted above. That ban was issued because there was no standard on where to draw the line, therefore I was relying upon my sense of ethics. And at the time, my morals dictated that I'd rather not have users at sythe who are fine with selling stolen material. I still believe that to be true, but if users believe we should step away from punishing immoral activity outside sythe, then fine.


With all that said, I still support whole-heartedly that off-site scamming at other black markets should be bannable here at sythe. Why allow people who have already shown their true colors on other forums? But I recognize that's not what we're talking about here.

 

I'm not saying what you did was wrong. I'd just like Richard/the staff to come to a clear consensus on whether in-game scamming/other activity is ban worthy or if it should be left alone.

I just want to point out that this was taken to Richard (and the rest of the staff) a few years ago, but many of the current staff members are new and weren't around for when that happened.

 

[Jake]

I'm not saying that ban was a result of my opinion posted above. That ban was issued because there was no standard on where to draw the line, therefore I was relying upon my sense of ethics. And at the time, my morals dictated that I'd rather not have users at sythe who are fine with selling stolen material. I still believe that to be true, but if users believe we should step away from punishing immoral activity outside sythe, then fine.


With all that said, I still support whole-heartedly that off-site scamming at other black markets should be bannable here at sythe. Why allow people who have already shown their true colors on other forums? But I recognize that's not what we're talking about here.

I don't see how sniped names can be considered stolen material. A majority of the time they are made available by the player due to a name change or even released by Jagex due to inactivity. Even if they are sniped from someone trying to transfer, it's nearly impossible for the buyer to know (unless the seller specifically tells him that he sniped it from someone else).


Back to the main topic, I agree that blackhat/forum scamming should remain bannable. Those users are most likely coming to sythe to find more victims to scam.

While I don't support scamming, I personally have no stance on whether in-game activity should be bannable or not. It's established that scamming another forum user via the game warrants a ban, but the grey area of scamming another runescape player needs to be clarified.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

It's a case by case thing, and in that case the buyer did know, yet still sold them


Anyway, we're talking in circles on the main topic now, so I'll leave it at what I said above.

 

[SuF]

Richard means what he said. If it does not involve RWT or is completely in game then Sythe shouldn't care.

 

[Dave]

Sythe's statement basically covers it. And if things fall into a gray area, staff will deal with that accordingly.