Removeal the whole pardon system.

Pardon system clearly not working out. I'm not gonna have to release my salt on this thread but let me go into failer of it:

• 1.Staff are slow to reply can take up to 2 weeks for one pardon to pass it's a bit of a joke.
• 2.it's pretty much, encouraging members to ban evade.
• 3.People who are no threat to the community are not passing pardons.
• 4.it's basically off the dislike or like the staff member's feel towards a person.
• 5.the fact people can't see staff replay to know why they voted no. means the person can't improve for the next time around.
• 6.The fact 2 admins can veto a pardon sort of stupid.

So what I'm asking for?

let's start with 1. I believe that we should bring it down from 9 staff member's needing to vote to 5 if my other suggestion's don't pass. As the waiting period is currently 2 weeks and their has always been staff members who would take a large period of time to vote.


2. 3. 4.
I believe we should remove the pardon system for offense's such as ban evasion, scamming and basically anything which can have the user process some form of repayment to fix the situation. For example black hatting you still need to pardon for. but lesser offence you need to repay victim and have a punishment waiting period before returning.

One a user repay's his debt he is unbanned after 6 months automatically (from the time his debts is paid or unrelated scam victim is paid). The 6 month period is a punishment for their wrongdoing.

This current system is keeping people out of market encouraging them to ban evade this is just making more issue's than it's worth, Anyone who not planning on pardoning atm is just going to ban evade anyway so why not give the people who wanted to return a chance?

5.
Basically, how are people going to know how to improve if they don't have any staff feedback. at the moment it's a flawed. I can understand the fact that pardon was taken too long with the 2 step system but current system is working either hiding the pardon from public eye.

6.
2 admins in a bad mood you pardon demined.

Sadly I'm in rush I will add more to this later

 

Admins can no longer veto pardons, and it's never been them in a "Bad mood"

Secondly, check the pardons results threads. Most pass. The ones that don't, don't for a reason.

 

Admins can no longer veto pardons, and it's never been them in a "Bad mood"

Secondly, check the pardons results threads. Most pass. The ones that don't, don't for a reason.

or they may dislike a member, didn't realize they remove the veto vote. but that's good new's anyhow.

I know most pass, still, think current system flawed. As pointed above. and dunworry you're saying not 1 pardon has never failed voted due to staff member's dislike towards a user? I highly doubt that. no offense.

 

or they may dislike a member, didn't realize they remove the veto vote. but that's good new's anyhow.

I know most pass, still, think current system flawed. As pointed above. and dunworry you're saying not 1 pardon has never failed voted due to staff member's dislike towards a user? I highly doubt that. no offense.

During my time, if a pardon was denied or had no votes, it wasn't simply because the staff member voting no disliked the member. I'm not sure why people who go through the pardon process feel that staff are corrupt emotional people. Any time a staff member had a personal connection to the user, they'd just abstain and that'd be that. People who are denied are denied for a good reason, simple as that.

 

2.it's pretty much, encouraging members to ban evade.

You don't think removing the pardon system will be an even bigger incentive to ban evade?

 

[Im Solo]

In some ways I think @A Broken man has a point, I got a TWC back in 2013 and attempted to get it removed on multiple occasions. At that point is was still a newfag (still am) and don't even know how to get it removed and many of the current staff were unhelpful in the appeal process. When I finally figured it out on my own it took over a month until someone even looked at my appeal. That was just for a TWC I don't even want to think about how horrible the full pardon system must be. Over a month of me messaging different admins/globals daily most of my messages being completely ignored. In the end I think it was superman who finally gave the okay to remove it. That's all I needed was one admins aproval and it took a month..... That's insane to me. Honestly the whole process should be streamlined. I Personaly think that there should be 1-2 staff members with their only duty being to work appeals and nothing else. If this already exists and I'm not aware I'll be the one to say the current staff in those positions are bad. Also ABM brought up that it currently takes 9 votes which is stupid, no matter how many times you tag a staff member they don't seem very motivated to do their job.


On a side note this is like the 5th suggestion that relates directly to upper staff, clearly something is wrong with upper staff that needs to change @Sythe @Shin @FireZ @video @Astro

Won't list other two cuz they won't see it anyway.

 

[Sun]

Pardon system clearly not working out. I'm not gonna have to release my salt on this thread but let me go into failer of it:

• 1.Staff are slow to reply can take up to 2 weeks for one pardon to pass it's a bit of a joke.
• 2.it's pretty much, encouraging members to ban evade.
• 3.People who are no threat to the community are not passing pardons.
• 4.it's basically off the dislike or like the staff member's feel towards a person.
• 5.the fact people can't see staff replay to know why they voted no. means the person can't improve for the next time around.
• 6.The fact 2 admins can veto a pardon sort of stupid.

So what I'm asking for?

let's start with 1. I believe that we should bring it down from 9 staff member's needing to vote to 5 if my other suggestion's don't pass. As the waiting period is currently 2 weeks and their has always been staff members who would take a large period of time to vote.


2. 3. 4.
I believe we should remove the pardon system for offense's such as ban evasion, scamming and basically anything which can have the user process some form of repayment to fix the situation. For example black hatting you still need to pardon for. but lesser offence you need to repay victim and have a punishment waiting period before returning.

One a user repay's his debt he is unbanned after 6 months automatically (from the time his debts is paid or unrelated scam victim is paid). The 6 month period is a punishment for their wrongdoing.

This current system is keeping people out of market encouraging them to ban evade this is just making more issue's than it's worth, Anyone who not planning on pardoning atm is just going to ban evade anyway so why not give the people who wanted to return a chance?

5.
Basically, how are people going to know how to improve if they don't have any staff feedback. at the moment it's a flawed. I can understand the fact that pardon was taken too long with the 2 step system but current system is working either hiding the pardon from public eye.

6.
2 admins in a bad mood you pardon demined.

Sadly I'm in rush I will add more to this later

1. The extension of voting isn't always because enough staff didn't vote; split votes are also a cause. Considering your pardon was extended due to lack of votes, I can understand your post. There has already been discussion regarding removing extensions of voting where it is not necessary.

2. This is not an accurate statement at all. We obviously don't encourage anyone to ban evade so trying to make it our fault for users doing so is silly. It's just another reason why those people shouldn't be let back into the community. You break the rules, you face the consequences. You continue to break the rules, you clearly aren't a reformed member who should be allowed back.

3. Everyone who gets denied is denied for a reason. Whether or not you personally see someone as a threat, obviously a majority of staff did.

If you're banned, you're admitting to an offence and requesting forgiveness from the staff to be unbanned and return.

Pardons aren't meant to be just for repayment. Pardons are especially necessary for things like scamming and ban evading. Regarding scams, a user took advantage of someone, lied to, and/or tricked someone and stole from them -- the biggest problem in a market. Regarding ban evasion, not being truthful about who you are and about your past is potentially dangerous in the market & community. Many users who scam once ban evade just to scam again. Pardons are meant to help judge whether or not a person will commit another offense at a later time. Most people who pardon twice will get approved the second time. Essentially, what you've suggested is the way it already is (waiting six months after repayment is parallel to waiting another six months to pardon a second time and being likely approved if no other offenses were committed), but it still has to go through review & get approved which is how it should be to make sure nothing was missed.

Pardons are for users to prove reform, not for staff to punish users. Denying a pardon is not punishment, but rather a way to ensure efforts will be made to be a legitimate user of the forums (which often times they are not).

4. This is also not an accurate statement. I have yet to see any staff vote based on their personal emotions. I also don't ever expect to see any staff vote based on their personal emotions. I have only seen staff abstain due to conflict of interest.

5. A lot of the pardons I see denied have votes that include, "I would support in six months if the user doesn't ban evade." And then what does the user do? Ban evade. Because we didn't directly tell them not to ban evade it is now our fault they ban evaded? That's a bogus reason that I'm not interested in entertaining. A denied pardon does not mean ban evade. A denied pardon means stay clean from breaking any rules & come back in six months. Users break rules because they choose to break rules. They aren't showing any reform, or guilt for breaking rules in the past. Instead they break more rules just because they weren't pardoned. It just further proves why they shouldn't yet be allowed back in the community.

6. Admins can't deny pardons. It's a full staff vote for a reason.

 

[Sun]

In some ways I think @A Broken man has a point, I got a TWC back in 2013 and attempted to get it removed on multiple occasions. At that point is was still a newfag (still am) and don't even know how to get it removed and many of the current staff were unhelpful in the appeal process. When I finally figured it out on my own it took over a month until someone even looked at my appeal. That was just for a TWC I don't even want to think about how horrible the full pardon system must be. Over a month of me messaging different admins/globals daily most of my messages being completely ignored. In the end I think it was superman who finally gave the okay to remove it. That's all I needed was one admins aproval and it took a month..... That's insane to me. Honestly the whole process should be streamlined. I Personaly think that there should be 1-2 staff members with their only duty being to work appeals and nothing else. If this already exists and I'm not aware I'll be the one to say the current staff in those positions are bad. Also ABM brought up that it currently takes 9 votes which is stupid, no matter how many times you tag a staff member they don't seem very motivated to do their job.


On a side note this is like the 5th suggestion that relates directly to upper staff, clearly something is wrong with upper staff that needs to change @Sythe @Shin @FireZ @video @Astro

Won't list other two cuz they won't see it anyway.

As of right now, the dispute & pardon sections are almost always up to date by midday so I don't think this is a problem anymore but I could be missing something.

I don't agree that some staff members should solely be assigned to appeals. The staff team is a team; everyone should be working in every part of the forums that they're allowed to moderate so that the same people aren't doing everything (rather, to ensure everything gets done in a day's work).

 

Do you people actually understand what he's typing?

Can someone translate for me /:.

 

[tMoon]

The system is not going to be removed and it was recently revamped (with some of us hoping for more change to it). The pardon system is meant to forgiven individuals and pardon them for evasion and such. Pardons are not a stamp-approval process and if you're denied, there is a reason and there is the DNT option (which is easier to get, but still able to be denied).

Your post comes across as you being bitter that your pardon was denied and as Yankiee said, pardon's are denied for a reason. Staff does not know who you are and no biasness is taking place. It is also worth noting that in possible bias circumstances, staff often excuse themselves.

I see Firez on this thread so inb4lock (maybe??)

 

[Heads447]

this has been suggested so many times now, it's beggining to sound like A Broken record

 

[tMoon]

this has been suggested so many times now, it's beggining to sound like A Broken record

With this in mind, given that this has already been denied, and that the pardon system is here to stay, this thread has been closed due to the unrealistic nature of the suggestion.

Do note, some staff members are suggesting subtle changes to the pardon system in an attempt to make it move faster so hopefully we will see them processed faster soon!

• 1.Staff are slow to reply can take up to 2 weeks for one pardon to pass it's a bit of a joke.
• 2.it's pretty much, encouraging members to ban evade.
• 3.People who are no threat to the community are not passing pardons.
• 4.it's basically off the dislike or like the staff member's feel towards a person.
• 5.the fact people can't see staff replay to know why they voted no. means the person can't improve for the next time around.
• 6.The fact 2 admins can veto a pardon sort of stupid.

You filed a report asking to argue your points, I have rejected your report, but here's a full response.

1. Staff are not handling one pardon at a time, but I do agree the wait time can be a bit ridiculous and we are working on decreasing it.
2. See point 1. If someone ban-evades, that's on them and there pardon will be handled appropriately.
3. If they were no threat to the community, they wouldn't have needed to pardon in the first place. If someone didn't pass, staff had the reservations and may have wanted them to wait 6 months and pardoned again.
4. No, it's not. Staff do not care who you are and if we think we are bias, we will excuse ourselves from the vote. Staff do not know ever user on Sythe.
5. It's so staff are able to share their views without worrying about community blowback.
6. They can't.

So yes, this will stay closed.