[DENIED] Pardon system

i see a lot of DNT’d users have a very strong stigma attached to them. So I’d like to see a change to users who are looking to pardon.

Lets say I get dnt’d and I’m looking to pardon. When I’ve paid my debt back I should be given a new rank which proves I’ve paid debts back and have an active ongoing pardon.

Atm the Pardon system makes ppl vade, because it could take months for a pardon to be accepted/denied.

Also the stigma attached to DNT makes ppl rather want to vade.

How this would work is that a Pardon user would be allowed to trade, with certain section restrictions which staff would have to agree on.

A pardon user would have to aquire vouches within x amount of weeks/months to return as a normal user.

This would work like ppl looking to get their TWC removed. Also they would be allowed into the market faster than how it works for the time being.

Certain people here remain dnt’d for months after having paid back their debts. And a user who pardoning and paying debts back is no immediate threat to the community in my opinion.

 

[Pain]

No_no_no_no

Imagine that in a descending tone and you have my answer.

Lots of manual staff work, pardons are already done quite quickly.

 

[Program]

Yeah I see your points and I like incentives to remaining on the "straight and narrow" for our members.

I feel like it's a narrow period of benefit that adds a bit more work on the staff. Maybe it takes us a minute to add the new rank and that'd defeat the purpose of getting a quicker solution.

So support if it's an easy implement and it's easy to add the rank once implemented.

 

[Buyacc]

I support the suggestion, great idea nothing more to add.

 

i see a lot of DNT’d users have a very strong stigma attached to them. So I’d like to see a change to users who are looking to pardon.

Lets say I get dnt’d and I’m looking to pardon. When I’ve paid my debt back I should be given a new rank which proves I’ve paid debts back and have an active ongoing pardon.

Atm the Pardon system makes ppl vade, because it could take months for a pardon to be accepted/denied.

Also the stigma attached to DNT makes ppl rather want to vade.

How this would work is that a Pardon user would be allowed to trade, with certain section restrictions which staff would have to agree on.

A pardon user would have to aquire vouches within x amount of weeks/months to return as a normal user.

This would work like ppl looking to get their TWC removed. Also they would be allowed into the market faster than how it works for the time being.

Certain people here remain dnt’d for months after having paid back their debts. And a user who pardoning and paying debts back is no immediate threat to the community in my opinion.

As much as I hate being a dnt, I already asked Alex about this, he doesn't like the current pardon system and said he would get around to discussing it with mods til then it will stay as it is. I talked to him about punishment after ban/dnt 1-3 months, time to repardon after a failed pardon case by case but likely 1-2mo. Just let @Shin get around to it, he is a busy critter.
Edit: And as of right now, most users who pardon take forever to actually pay debts or can't contact the person they scammed, etc. Personally it seems fine besides time to repardon, although it would require more staff input. Maybe a thing to consider is a limit to 1 week of voting regardless of the amount of staff that have voted, which sounds stingy, but if you lower time to repardon you probably want a faster system in general.

 

The main issue with the current pardon system is @Divine says he made it

Okay being serious Sythe has pushed in the direction of bringing back past, "reformed", scammers into the community. This has been pretty positive as lots of banned users returning had scams that were petty and made as children. Moving into the future I think this would be a good idea, to empower current members to stay and avoid them evading a ban and possibly scamming again. Once you're ousted from the community you lose attachment and may come back and do it again.. and again without remorse. This would keep users as part of the community and empower them to rebuild their credibility, pay back their victims and reach out for forgiveness. A much better alternative to getting a ban, a heartless apology thrown at their victims, and potentially coming back to scam again. I'm not saying I like this exact suggestion as some users who don't use the market regularly wouldn't be able to get the vouches as fast, and vouches aren't required ever so it could theoretically never happen... I like where its going though,

Support.

A better alternative I believe would be for them to keep track of all trades they make successfully (not vouches and excluding those made with paypal for obvious reasons) and use those numbers.

EDIT: Instead of a ban remove their permissions to reply to all threads and pms for the time being so they cant scam again (if possible) EXCEPT somewhere to communicate with the staff member handling their scam report? To work out a repayment maybe in a repayment plan if they dont have it all at the time. Then have them repay before they can trade at a limited level.

 

[Chival]

Getting x amount of vouches in weeks/months would just allow bad trades in order to farm vouches and get rid of TWC

 

[S]

Atm the Pardon system makes ppl vade, because it could take months for a pardon to be accepted/denied.

The point of a pardon is to admit, and to move forward, and to not re-offend. If said user is unable to adhere to their own want to get unbanned and instead return to ban evading, that's their own doing.

It's like saying, I wanted a loan from a bank, but they took too long, so I decided to rob a place instead.

Imagine that in a descending tone and you have my answer.

Imagine this is a condescending* tone. You're a moron.

 

[Pain]

The point of a pardon is to admit, and to move forward, and to not re-offend. If said user is unable to adhere to their own want to get unbanned and instead return to ban evading, that's their own doing.

It's like saying, I wanted a loan from a bank, but they took too long, so I decided to rob a place instead.



Imagine this is a condescending* tone. You're a moron.

No I definitely meant descending.

 

The main issue with the current pardon system is @Divine says he made it

Okay being serious Sythe has pushed in the direction of bringing back past, "reformed", scammers into the community. This has been pretty positive as lots of banned users returning had scams that were petty and made as children. Moving into the future I think this would be a good idea, to empower current members to stay and avoid them evading a ban and possibly scamming again. Once you're ousted from the community you lose attachment and may come back and do it again.. and again without remorse. This would keep users as part of the community and empower them to rebuild their credibility, pay back their victims and reach out for forgiveness. A much better alternative to getting a ban, a heartless apology thrown at their victims, and potentially coming back to scam again. I'm not saying I like this exact suggestion as some users who don't use the market regularly wouldn't be able to get the vouches as fast, and vouches aren't required ever so it could theoretically never happen... I like where its going though,

Support.

A better alternative I believe would be for them to keep track of all trades they make successfully (not vouches and excluding those made with paypal for obvious reasons) and use those numbers.

EDIT: Instead of a ban remove their permissions to reply to all threads and pms for the time being so they cant scam again (if possible) EXCEPT somewhere to communicate with the staff member handling their scam report? To work out a repayment maybe in a repayment plan if they dont have it all at the time. Then have them repay before they can trade at a limited level.

Instead of a ban remove permissions, aka give them a dnt? Scammers receive bans because they only show ill intent towards the site, users who pardon are meant to show remorse, and as i said Alex wanted to possibly introduce a system where users can't pardon for x time after an incident. Regardless, dnt is how it is to protect people, does that mean all dnt's are scum? No, but you can't reform the rank.

 

Instead of a ban remove permissions, aka give them a dnt? Scammers receive bans because they only show ill intent towards the site, users who pardon are meant to show remorse, and as i said Alex wanted to possibly introduce a system where users can't pardon for x time after an incident. Regardless, dnt is how it is to protect people, does that mean all dnt's are scum? No, but you can't reform the rank.

DNT allows them to still reply to threads so they can scam, temporarily remove their permissions so they can still access their account and resolve their case without being able to scam, if people need money they'll scam again. Obviously everything can be case by case

 

DNT allows them to still reply to threads so they can scam, temporarily remove their permissions so they can still access their account and resolve their case without being able to scam, if people need money they'll scam again. Obviously everything can be case by case

This could be either a great suggestion, or a terrible one. Take for instance @Jacky who has probably paid of his debts by now but will remain dnt for a while, even tho we know hes no threat to the community.

 

This could be either a great suggestion, or a terrible one. Take for instance @Jacky who has probably paid of his debts by now but will remain dnt for a while, even tho we know hes no threat to the community.

As far as I'm aware he had no debts to pay but has been hit with the DNT hammer due to some petty involvement with a ddos several years ago.

Annnnd swinging back on topic of the suggestion, a simpler alternative would to just keep the user's pardons in a "pending" section so they can be easily accessible to all forum users to make their own judgment.

 

[Champ]

A pardon user would have to aquire vouches within x amount of weeks/months to return as a normal user.

Regardless of vouches, they can still scam. What if the user is pardoning for the sole fact they want to just rejoin the community / interact with the community. Would them not being active in the market hinder their ability?

Certain people here remain dnt’d for months after having paid back their debts. And a user who pardoning and paying debts back is no immediate threat to the community in my opinion.

We do our best each and every voting to look at all aspects. Can we predict the future? Absolutely not. The pardon system is created to give users a second chance, and move forward, not go backwards. At the end of the day, some people pardon and go on and do great things, others may end up banned. We do our best to vote based of the scenarios we have been given.

Also the stigma attached to DNT makes ppl rather want to vade.

If these people are not patient enough to go through the system, they're the exact people we wouldn't want back in the community anyways. Committing another mistake just because things didn't go a certain way does not justify the actions.

This suggestion has been denied, the pardon system is the way it is for a reason and does not need to be changed at this time.