Regarding the GUIDE FORUM

[ritchynator0]

Thanks for deciding to improve this forum. However, it still needs improvements.

Most people are viewing the Guide Sales section rather than viewing the Verified Guide Sales section.

Instead, the Guide Sales forum should be called "Guides awaiting verification." This way ALL guides must be verified. In order to prevent from junk guides and scams, penalties should be in place if the guide does not match what they say.

The Verified Guide Sales section should be the main section for people to access.

The Runescape 2 Guides Archives should be a hidden section.

The Free Guides section should stay as it is.



A payment of no more than $0.50 should be in place to get guides verified - as if it were a listing fee.




At this very moment: Guide Sales (33 Viewing)
Verified Guide Sales (6 Viewing)

 

[Spazz]

Why should we have to pay to get guides verified? This isn't Ebay.

 

[ritchynator0]

We are paying for the time and effort of the person who verifies our guide.

 

[ritchynator0]

After one guide sold, there is surely a profit. This means that bad guides that people know will not sell will not flood the forum full of decent working guides.

 

[BaYBeeZ]

I feel like I've already read something about the payment thing, which got shot down. You would have a better chance if you just pushed the re-organization of threads idea.

 

[Wats Beef]

Why do we have to pay to verify the guide?

And btw, when the idea was chosen to make a verified section, alot of people volunteered to be a guide verifyer, so I don't think the time/effort matters, as alot of people wanted to do it, not to mention, they get the guide free.

 

[ritchynator0]

These are only possibilities. If it is hated by everyone, then it is perfectly acceptable to scrap the idea.

Edit: I.E paying to verify guides.







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Why do we have to pay to verify the guide?


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This is to filter the good guides and bad guides. People with useless guides will not bother to pay to sell them if they think no-one will buy it. This allows other sellers a higher chance of selling.

 

[Wats Beef]

50 Cents will not filter good and bad guides bro.

 

[Plznate]

Well done to staff on the improvements on the section, I think the verified subsection was a great addition.

 

[Sin666]

I don't even know why they brought the verified section back in the first place, and I obviously disagree with the decision. There are already a couple threads from users complaining about being unable to get their methods verified (probably because there seem to be even fewer mods willing/able to verify than in the past). Not mention, there doesn't seem to be any more regulation over what's being verified, and still no process for removing guides which no longer work. Must you really repeat the same mistake?

The system of simply having mods vouch for a method was fine.

 

[Plznate]

I don't even know why they brought the verified section back in the first place, and I obviously disagree with the decision. There are already a couple threads from users complaining about being unable to get their methods verified (probably because there seem to be even fewer mods willing/able to verify than in the past). Not mention, there doesn't seem to be any more regulation over what's being verified, and still no process for removing guides which no longer work. Must you really repeat the same mistake?

The system of simply having mods vouch for a method was fine.

The issue was that not enough mods are active/willing to spend their time and RS resources into verifying guides, which left a gap for dishonest people to sell a crap guide, saying "waiting for a mod to verify" which creates false confidence in the buyer.

With this new method, they have selected certain additional members and granted the ability to verify the guides themselves. Although it will still be a pain in the ass to get a guide verified, at least now the typical guide buyer doesnt have to sift through the entire section shooting blindly as to which guides may or may not work, they can now at least purchase confidently within the verified section.

 

[Sin666]

Users who jump to verify guides generally do it so they can take advantage of the methods themselves (and occasionally of reselling/leaking them). You'll notice that on any "GREAT NEW GLITCH" thread, users and mods alike will flock to verify it - and they don't all do it just to be helpful. I'm not accusing any verifier in particular of wanting to take advantage of their post, but unlike staff, they get no status, and little recognition for it. So, what do they get? Well, that's the problem.

Verification, when done properly, is time-intensive, and most of the guides are crap. (Although, in the past, some mods have verified on the basis of "oh, um, I won't try it, but it sounds like it might work") - that's why most staff don't do it.

Beyond that, there's even less communication between staff and non-staff, which makes it even less likely for the guides to be managed properly. All-in-all, it just seems like a bad idea.

 

[Plznate]

1. Users who jump to verify guides generally do it so they can take advantage of the methods themselves. You'll notice that on any "GREAT NEW GLITCH" thread, users and mods alike will flock to verify it - and they don't all do it just to be helpful. I'm not accusing any verifier in particular of wanting to take advantage of their post, but unlike staff, they get no status, and little recognition for it. So, what do they get? Well, that's the problem.

2. Verification, when done properly, is time-intensive, and most of the guides are crap. (Although, in the past, some mods have verified on the basis of "oh, um, I won't try it, but it sounds like it might work") - that's why most staff don't do it.

3. Beyond that, there's even less communication between staff and non-staff, which make it even less likely for the guides to be managed properly.

Numbered your sections for easier reference.

Regarding point 1, none of the members who were chosen to be official verifiers (in addition to staff) asked for their position, they they were nominated by a staff member then asked if they would accept their position. And yes, whenever those glitches come out (the D bolt glitch comes to mind), I see 5 new mods coming in to verify. That is why the guide verifiers are chosen. They are just there to assist.

Point 2, you are correct, I have even seen some GLOBALS doing that, which misleads the user into purchasing a "technically" sound guide, but doesnt work in reality. The new guide verifiers have strict guidelines to follow, and have agreed to the terms that if they inaccurately verify a guide, they are responsible for paying back every member who purchased the guide under their false verification. I would go so far as to say that stipulation will increase the number of accurate verifications, given that most of the verifiers do not care to pay for 15 copies of a guide they claimed was functioning, but didn't ; )

Lastly, I believe the process of a sort of private forum for the centralizing of all guide related information (who is selling what guide, what methods are working, etc) is currently being implemented, which I believe would more easily facilitate communication between the staff/non staff members, and allow staff to delegate out tasks which they do not have time or willingness to do.

 

[Sin666]

I'll re-verify if anyone wants me to...

This post was made by a mod on a glitch thread after another mod had just verified the method. "Re-verify"? There was obviously no need - he just wanted to find out how to do it. The same mod posted on a few of the other dupe boards as well; and nothing against him, he's an otherwise responsible staff member.

Although not one of the mods suggested on the board, this is why an official verification system is a mistake. People are simply going to abuse it, whether they are nominated or volunteer: as I said, the only thing they have to gain from verifying are the methods themselves, and no one works without some incentive. If they didn't see something for themselves in it, they wouldn't have accepted the job, and those who didn't think that far ahead will quickly tire of it.

Making a fundamentally corrupt system official is a responsibility the staff shouldn't accept.

 

[Plznate]

This post was made by a mod on a glitch thread after another mod had just verified the method. "Re-verify"? There was obviously no need - he just wanted to find out how to do it. The same mod posted on a few of the other dupe boards as well.

Although not one of the mods suggested on the board, this is why an official verification system is a mistake. People are simply going to abuse it, whether they are nominated or volunteer: as I said, the only thing they have to gain from verifying are the methods themselves, and no one works without some incentive. If they didn't see something for themselves in it, they wouldn't have accepted the job, and those who didn't think that far ahead will quickly tire of it.

Then I would say you have a very Hobbesian view of the verifiers, as I know 3 out of the 4 who were selected, and they are honest, altruistic people, and have always been willing to lend a helping hand, regardless of the existence of any sort of incentive. I guess only more time will tell. I will agree however, that finding a flawless solution in unlikely, I do think that this is an advantageous improvement, both for guide buyers and for staff as well given that they now have some "hired hands" to assist in the verification process, and it DOES provide some sort of buyer security, provided that they make their purchases in the verified sub-forum.

 

The Guide Sales should be divided in two sections, Non-Verified, which only moderators and guide verifiers can see. And the public one, which contains the guides already verified.

 

[RecoveryKing]

This post was made by a mod on a glitch thread after another mod had just verified the method. "Re-verify"? There was obviously no need - he just wanted to find out how to do it. The same mod posted on a few of the other dupe boards as well; and nothing against him, he's an otherwise responsible staff member.

Why that is nothing against whomever did that I have no idea. Shouldn't abusing your staff position be a punishable offense? Or are staff only disciplined for scamming?

 

[Sin666]

There's no rule against offering to verify a method, or even against mods using the methods they verify without paying for it. So, although it's obvious he was after the method for himself, he wasn't technically breaking any rules, and I've already pointed out that most people who volunteer to verify guides have the same objective. I would not single this mod out.

As another example, I hardly find it coincidental that the mod who created the rule requiring all guides above a certain transfer rate to be verified also ran a transfer service, and was policing guides to make sure his own method wasn't being leaked: although another good mod, there really are no illusions with him - he mods because it helps his business to do so, and it stands to reason that he'd verify guides for the same reason.

Put simply, there's a reason the mods who don't play RS anymore rarely verify anything: and it's not because they don't know how the game works. Most verifiers abuse the system, and that's why I took it down.

 

[RsProd]

The Guide Sales should be divided in two sections, Non-Verified, which only moderators and guide verifiers can see. And the public one, which contains the guides already verified.

Agreed to some extent, as I have a verified guide, over the last day or two... I have receive a lot less sales because of the minimal traffic going into verified guides, I like the idea that all guides are hidden until verified by a mod, admin or guide verifyer.
Hopefully this changes because at this stage, the benefits are minimal.

 

[RecoveryKing]

There's no rule against offering to verify a method, or even against mods using the methods they verify without paying for it. So, although it's obvious he was after the method for himself, he wasn't technically breaking any rules, and I've already pointed out that most people who volunteer to verify guides have the same objective. I would not single this mod out.

As another example, I hardly find it coincidental that the mod who created the rule requiring all guides above a certain transfer rate to be verified also ran a transfer service, and was policing guides to make sure his own method wasn't being leaked: although another good mod, there really are no illusions with him - he mods because it helps his business to do so, and it stands to reason that he'd verify guides for the same reason.

Put simply, there's a reason the mods who don't play RS anymore rarely verify anything: and it's not because they don't know how the game works. Most verifiers abuse the system, and that's why I took it down.

Then maybe there should be a rule against it. Obviously everyone (and I mean everyone for those of you who think someone is somehow above it) who verifies guides does it for themselves, either to get the guide for free or to make sure its not theirs, or whatever else there may be. However, that is still different than someone abusing their position to try to get free, already verified guides. The system will never be perfect, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and make it work as well as we can.