But paying back victoms who were innocently scammed or loaned money to is a first priority, right?
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
- Thread starter R2Pleasent
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scam [skæm] Slang
n
a scheme for gain; a swindle
It'd just put us at the same level as the person who is pardoning. Plus, it undermines the entire pardon system. When someone is pardoned, we assume they're changed. If they only pay back because they might get unbanned, then do they really deserve to be pardoned? And if the person does pay back as a result of this scheme pulled by staff to trick him into paying back, then that also undermines the system in a different sense: the staff can't just deny his pardon. He paid the people back, and they said he could get unbanned! Then there's going to be outrage, and another stupid thread like this.
The current system, without mandatory "shh, pretend he can get pardoned so he pays people back," is terrific because:
1) The person knows he may or may not be banned, even after he pays
2) If the person pays, we know (almost) certainly he was not guaranteed a pardon for paying back and did it on his own accord
3) If the person doesn't pay, he's not deserving of a pardon, because he's not willing to correct his wrongs with the results of still being banned
Well, if someone corrects there wrongs. I don't see why to keep punishing them either.
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Except we gain nothing, all that happens is the victim regains his loss.
By the logic of someone who is pardoned we assume is changed, changed but would you still trust them with an amount of 4 digits? There's a handful or so of people on sythe that I would trust with that much, you being one as I trusted you with just as much at one point. But simply because the staff believes someone has changed, I dont see how that means they can be trusted or should be trusted. Trusted, maybe, but to a point.
I think the point of this suggestion is not to give hints of a possible outcome until victims are paid. In other words dont say anything apart from paying the victims back. I dont think r2p meant that weasel would have been told to fuck off even after he paid back, but the staff could either do that or support his pardon after he paid. Weasel chargedback $2k, and I highly doubt that many people would pay that back if the staff were hinting they wont be able to come back. If anything that could be a message for the scammer to keep his money, if he chooses to take it that way.
i still support you for mod
You're putting the priority of the pardon above the victims being repaid. This is money that the pardoner STOLE from other people. Who cares if he is tricked into repaying it. It was never his in the first place. You're worried about how it's unfair to the pardoner? Why does the person who stole $1000+ from our members deserve to know the outcome of their pardon before repaying their debts? The only person that benefits from that is the person making the pardon.
Nobody is gaining anything. For one party to gain, another party needs to take a loss as well. The stolen money never belonged to them in the first place, so they can't take a loss. The money going to the victims was stolen from them in the first place, so they GAIN nothing. They simply are back on even ground.
As for assuming people have changed, this is an online forum. A pardon is nothing more than text uploaded to the server. You want to see if people really changed? Let them prove it through actions. They can repay victims before expecting to even get their pardon looked at. I can tell you that if Weasel truly did go to the effort to repay all his debts, it would certainly change everyone's views about him. But for him to apply for a pardon while owing out over $1000 is just ridiculous.
Furthermore, no one says that you will be unbanned once you repay your victims. It is simply a requirement to have your case heard for being unbanned. This truly separates the real from the bullshit. If you want to have the staff rule on your pardon, all debts must = 0. Honestly, you're supposed to be a smart guy, this is pretty basic stuff.
To further elaborate.
"The staff has found that you currently owe debts to other users. We will not rule on a pardon until you have repaid all debts on record to the users affected. If the affected users are no longer reachable, our staff will assist you in getting in touch with them. If you require a list of your owing debts, post here and our staff will assist you."
In Weasel's case, he has a daunting amount of people to which he owes money. We would need to provide him with a list of his debts. For $1000+, you can't expect them to pay it all back at once. Start by asking him to make a $100-200 payment towards the debt. Once he has made an initial payment, he has amply more reason to continue paying. Money should be disbursed fairly amongst victims. The staff member in charge of disbursing the money could take 5-10% of the total for the time / effort (deducted from the victims).
should remove the pardon system, and re-instate all previous bans on people who were pardon, thus including myself. imho. if you fuck up once you should be gone for good.
With that logic over 3 quarters of the current staff would be banned off if a "fuck up once and you're out" policy.
Not many change but enough do.
people don't change because they think its the right thing to do, they change because they think they can benefit from it, which is i guess the point this thread is trying to prove.
I think this is the route we should be going. Stop letting Delta troll you, guys
i'm not trolling i'm just expressing my opinion on the pardon system. and the fact that people will only try to pay others back if they think its worth it to them, i'm agreeing with you on what you are saying, i'm just saying i don't like the current system.
The Infamous Spam Forum King
Bump.
Sure, we disagree on some stuff, but we both agree that there is certainly no way someone should be allowed back on the site before they repay their debts. That is what we are arguing on this thread.
Legend
I believe the same way. Staff needs to re-think their ways of handling pardons and quit being so naive. You aren't hurting just one person by saying "fuck off" you are hurting the people they were going to pay back and possibly a great member who wants to return to this community.
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