Pardon Changes

[G3722]

Certainly does, but even now they currently get away with it. We pretty much allow most old blackhat offenses in unless we find something new (in which case they wouldnt be eligible). So really, we already do that, so why not write in the rule.

then I guess the only problem I see with the reform, is currently a problem, I wish I could offer a solution, other than being stricter on blackhat offenses but thats a problem because there not being no proof doesn't mean there is proof.. so support!

 

[SuF]

Agreed on all counts. The conditional rule was silly since it was added.

 

[Yousuckv2]

@Bus369 I know you're very outspoken about disliking the current system. I'd love to see some ideas you have to contribute for changes.

@Yousuckv2
1) There are some pardons where the user seems like a good guy but they're sketchy, they keep getting into messes, etc. The whole reason they were taken out was because we were told we need to either trust the person to be a full member of the site, or not at all. With the DNT parole system in place, that no longer makes sense when we offer a DNT system. So really, I don't see why not.

2) It would be 2 years upon being caught/admitting it. If any money is outstanding after those 2 years, they would need to refund it first. After that, they would be unbanned. With blackhat, look at it this way. There are users who just joined the site and have to pardon not a week later. Do you think they're wanting to return if that is the case? Some of these users haven't participated in ages and it's some mistake they made back in their youth. That's what this rule is attempting to cater to. Realize, 2 years is a lot of time online.

3) I would venture to say that a good portion of scams are by one and done people. Not every single scam is a from a vader. That being said, these users have considerably less offenses than said vaders. They should be allowed some form of easier passage through the pardon system. While our voting on their pardons certainly do reflect the significance of their offenses, I feel there should be something written into the system to allow them back easier.

4) Returning to the last point I made on number 2, six months online is a long time. A lot of pardons involve 3 or less scams. If they make an effort to refund those just to get slapped with a denial, why would they want to come back? They showed good faith in refunding, and we shoved them away with saying "come back in 6 months." I can't blame them if they think that we'll just keep saying that, so some of them give up. I think 3 months is a much better time frame. In comparison to all the pardons, returning pardons are pretty small. There is a reason for this, so let's get users to return and try to pardon again if they are denied.

1. If they're sketchy there's a reason and they're probably not a 'good guy'. With the DNT system in place they can return if they may be an asset but can't fully be trusted so I see no reason to give them a full pardon under the argument that "maybe we can trust them." They can just stay DNT and be granted a pardon if they actually deserve it.

2. Ok glad you cleared that up because 2 years upon being caught is far different than 2 years between the offense and the appeal/pardon. If they scammed someone and paid it back sometime within 2 years I don't see a problem but if they made no effort during those 2 years to fix what they did then I don't see why we should be catering to them and making things easier for them. There also are very few members that join the site and are quickly banned for blackhat that happened ages ago as most of them are either vaders anyways or are still very much involved in it and thus this would not apply to them so??? I also don't feel your argument that something 2 years ago could be a mistake made in their "youth" is actually relevant considering 2 years isn't a lot of time as you claim and most people don't undergo major character changes within 2 years. Like I said if they posted a few times about a RAT or something then they're likely to be pardoned anyways. If they were very deeply involved in cringeworthy skid or even illegal shit to the extent past an immature curiosity then it should be judged at face value regardless of how long ago it was. There are people who have been found to have HF/other blackhat forum accounts from years ago with all sorts of carding and highly illegal content but were banned outside of the 2 year range you're suggesting and you really feel those people should be granted the same courtesy as some idiot who was curious about booters or keyloggers 3 years ago?

3. No most scams aren't really one and done. There's always previous shit they've done or shit they do afterwards. Like %1 of users actually pardoning or less have actually scammed one person and only made that one mistake. When they actually pardon and have paid it back it's pretty much a sure thing that they get unbanned anyways. If they don't there's likely a reason which goes beyond that single scam and thus this wouldn't apply to them anyways so??? Need I remind you that PolarTrades, KingSwift and Sportsplayer12 only had minor scams but within days of returning each scammed a fuck ton more than they had previously? That's only the past few months as well and these 3 users were deemed fit even by the staff to return and you want to make it less of a judgement call depending on level of offense? Sportsplayer12 scammed like $20 because he wanted to leave Sythe the first time but you guys allowed him back and he ran off with hundreds of some kid's money and another large outstanding gambling debt? KingSwift wasn't even banned for scamming but a minor-ish offense involving some blackhat chat with retard Ooga and you guys allowed him to return and he ran off with someone's money? I see no reason for intentionally allowing more retards like them back especially when they're capable of doing a lot more damage the 2nd time around as has been shown many, many times in the past with pardoned users. Keep in mind it wont be your money that they'll be running off with but do you think the victim is going to be cool with the fact that you guys unbanned them because you thought they wouldn't scam again? I doubt it

4. 6 months online isn't a lot of time i'm not sure why you keep claiming things like this? I'm also not sure why you're white knighting scammers by saying most of them only scam "3 people or less" like it's some sort of courtesy? Again I fail to understand why you think we should be catering to scumbags. If they were denied the first time around 3 months likely isn't going to make a difference because they're still going to be scum 3 months later and likely 6 months later as well. The reason a lot of users don't repardon isn't because they have to wait 6 months, it's because they realize there's a low chance of them being allowed back anyways since nobody fucking wants them back after what they've done. Having a bunch of shitbags continually returning and trying to get unbanned does not directly correlate to allowing quality members back into the community, if they're truly deserving of a pardon they shouldn't have an issue waiting 6 months. Patience is a virtue mothafucka

You gave a fuck to read it. And I did read every bit he said I just kept my answer short and simple. Why would I require post count/attention lol.

I could've sworn I was being clear enough about this in the first post but nobody gives two fucks about your opinion retard go back to Powerbot

 

[Lean]

How about people voting based on what rules the user has broken and not their opinion on the user, that'd be great.

 

[Zogre]

I could've sworn I was being clear enough about this in the first post but nobody gives two fucks about your opinion retard go back to Powerbot

Nobody being you who once again read what i said and replied

 

[Yousuckv2]

Nobody being you who once again read what i said and replied

No nobody as in you could write a book and your opinion would still not be taken into account not that i'm not going to acknowledge an absolute retard like you posting and tell you to fuck off back to powerbot

 

[Zogre]

No nobody as in you could write a book and your opinion would still not be taken into account not that i'm not going to acknowledge an absolute retard like you posting and tell you to fuck off back to powerbot

Who would write a book on an opinion lol. Whatever im done with this stay on topic.

 

[Dunworry]

1. If they're sketchy there's a reason and they're probably not a 'good guy'. With the DNT system in place they can return if they may be an asset but can't fully be trusted so I see no reason to give them a full pardon under the argument that "maybe we can trust them." They can just stay DNT and be granted a pardon if they actually deserve it.

2. Ok glad you cleared that up because 2 years upon being caught is far different than 2 years between the offense and the appeal/pardon. If they scammed someone and paid it back sometime within 2 years I don't see a problem but if they made no effort during those 2 years to fix what they did then I don't see why we should be catering to them and making things easier for them. There also are very few members that join the site and are quickly banned for blackhat that happened ages ago as most of them are either vaders anyways or are still very much involved in it and thus this would not apply to them so??? I also don't feel your argument that something 2 years ago could be a mistake made in their "youth" is actually relevant considering 2 years isn't a lot of time as you claim and most people don't undergo major character changes within 2 years. Like I said if they posted a few times about a RAT or something then they're likely to be pardoned anyways. If they were very deeply involved in cringeworthy skid or even illegal shit to the extent past an immature curiosity then it should be judged at face value regardless of how long ago it was. There are people who have been found to have HF/other blackhat forum accounts from years ago with all sorts of carding and highly illegal content but were banned outside of the 2 year range you're suggesting and you really feel those people should be granted the same courtesy as some idiot who was curious about booters or keyloggers 3 years ago?

3. No most scams aren't really one and done. There's always previous shit they've done or shit they do afterwards. Like %1 of users actually pardoning or less have actually scammed one person and only made that one mistake. When they actually pardon and have paid it back it's pretty much a sure thing that they get unbanned anyways. If they don't there's likely a reason which goes beyond that single scam and thus this wouldn't apply to them anyways so??? Need I remind you that PolarTrades, KingSwift and Sportsplayer12 only had minor scams but within days of returning each scammed a fuck ton more than they had previously? That's only the past few months as well and these 3 users were deemed fit even by the staff to return and you want to make it less of a judgement call depending on level of offense? Sportsplayer12 scammed like $20 because he wanted to leave Sythe the first time but you guys allowed him back and he ran off with hundreds of some kid's money and another large outstanding gambling debt? KingSwift wasn't even banned for scamming but a minor-ish offense involving some blackhat chat with retard Ooga and you guys allowed him to return and he ran off with someone's money? I see no reason for intentionally allowing more retards like them back especially when they're capable of doing a lot more damage the 2nd time around as has been shown many, many times in the past with pardoned users. Keep in mind it wont be your money that they'll be running off with but do you think the victim is going to be cool with the fact that you guys unbanned them because you thought they wouldn't scam again? I doubt it

4. 6 months online isn't a lot of time i'm not sure why you keep claiming things like this? I'm also not sure why you're white knighting scammers by saying most of them only scam "3 people or less" like it's some sort of courtesy? Again I fail to understand why you think we should be catering to scumbags. If they were denied the first time around 3 months likely isn't going to make a difference because they're still going to be scum 3 months later and likely 6 months later as well. The reason a lot of users don't repardon isn't because they have to wait 6 months, it's because they realize there's a low chance of them being allowed back anyways since nobody fucking wants them back after what they've done. Having a bunch of shitbags continually returning and trying to get unbanned does not directly correlate to allowing quality members back into the community, if they're truly deserving of a pardon they shouldn't have an issue waiting 6 months. Patience is a virtue mothafucka

I could've sworn I was being clear enough about this in the first post but nobody gives two fucks about your opinion retard go back to Powerbot

My point is that not all of them are scumbags. There are a few staff members pardoned for scamming. Comparing the number of users pardoned and the users who returned to scamming, it is a pretty low percentage. But to respond to the "one and done" topic, a lot of scams actually are. From your standpoint, you tackle a lot of the ban evaders and mass scammers. So I can see why you believe that, but really. Do you think that 99 out of every 100 scam reports in the Report a Scammer section are from ban evaders who have scammed dozens of times? Handling a lot of those reports, some of them are just random people who want some extra RS gold and don't think about what they're doing. I'm not saying that every user should be let back, or that every user is just a one time scammer. What I'm saying is that there is a population of those users that do indeed exist, so why categorize them with the worst? We should write something in the system that allows these type of users back easier.

As for 6 months being a lot of time, it really is online. Unless you become really invested in a community or game, a lot of people bounce around. They go from game to forum to game. If they're told they need to refund to have a chance and they do so, just to be told "try again in 6 months" a lot of those users would just say fuck it. They'd probably rather just go to another forum and chill there instead. So rather than making it impossible on some of them, we should be making it a bit easier. Realize, I'm not saying we should make it easier for people like Alli, chris kane, etc. Those are people that shouldn't be allowed back, period. But for those users who maybe scammed a couple years ago and want to come back, why are we treating them like they committed murder? If they're lying in their pardons and trying to be deceitful, fair enough, but some of these users are genuine. We should have something written in that helps get these genuine users back into the site, rather than keeping them to the same rigorous system.

 

[Yousuckv2]

My point is that not all of them are scumbags. There are a few staff members pardoned for scamming. Comparing the number of users pardoned and the users who returned to scamming, it is a pretty low percentage. But to respond to the "one and done" topic, a lot of scams actually are. From your standpoint, you tackle a lot of the ban evaders and mass scammers. So I can see why you believe that, but really. Do you think that 99 out of every 100 scam reports in the Report a Scammer section are from ban evaders who have scammed dozens of times? Handling a lot of those reports, some of them are just random people who want some extra RS gold and don't think about what they're doing. I'm not saying that every user should be let back, or that every user is just a one time scammer. What I'm saying is that there is a population of those users that do indeed exist, so why categorize them with the worst? We should write something in the system that allows these type of users back easier.

As for 6 months being a lot of time, it really is online. Unless you become really invested in a community or game, a lot of people bounce around. They go from game to forum to game. If they're told they need to refund to have a chance and they do so, just to be told "try again in 6 months" a lot of those users would just say fuck it. They'd probably rather just go to another forum and chill there instead. So rather than making it impossible on some of them, we should be making it a bit easier. Realize, I'm not saying we should make it easier for people like Alli, chris kane, etc. Those are people that shouldn't be allowed back, period. But for those users who maybe scammed a couple years ago and want to come back, why are we treating them like they committed murder? If they're lying in their pardons and trying to be deceitful, fair enough, but some of these users are genuine. We should have something written in that helps get these genuine users back into the site, rather than keeping them to the same rigorous system.

Comparing the number of users pardoned to users who returned and scammed it isn't a low percentage whatsoever, there's a fuck ton of pardoned users who ended up banned again. A lot of scams aren't one and done. Most of the people that get reported who just scammed wanting some extra RSGP will do it again, and again, and again. There are actually shockingly few people who actually intend to scam and only do it once as opposed to coming back and doing it again. Most of the people who do only scam once don't come back and don't pardon anyways. Take a look at Pardon decisions thread and let me know how many of these people are banned for literally only 1 minor scam? The only ones banned for even relatively minor offenses were successfully pardoned and most of them didn't just have 1 scam against them as well. You say a population exists but i'd label that "population" as maybe one out of every few hundred banned users on the website and most of them aren't coming back or attempting to pardon anyways. If they did, they'd likely not have a problem being successfully pardoned as is so again i'm pretty sure this would be pointless and only used as a loophole to allow back complete scumbags. The group of people you want to implement this to help don't need any help because they'd likely have no issue being pardoned anyways.

Once again 6 months isn't a lot of time and I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of people out there that just had one fuck up. 6 months shouldn't be an issue for them if they genuinely deserve to be unbanned as they will be. Allowing them to post twice as often won't make them any more or less deserving of an unban. Once again I feel you're only suggesting things to help people that probably wouldn't need it and will probably just be abused as loopholes by truly toxic elements.

 

[Pain]

Easy to say for someone who got his pardon through.

This is the same as DnT, those who haven't gone through it cant speak on behalf of it, its that simple.

I've never met a single person whos had a failed pardon who didn't feel the system was terrible, and rightly so.

It's easy to speak about how the pardon system is fine when you've gone through it or you know a pardon is going to pass because u report 50 ban evaders a day & staff like you, its a vastly different story for a lot of other people.

Your claiming its a "small population" and honestly its a small population that wants to come back BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO DEAL WITH WAITING 6 MONTHS AND GOING THROUGH THIS TERRIBLE ASS SYSTEM.

6 months is to goddam long, period.

Nobody on earth is going to wait 6 months and not ban evade which is the easier option unless they have something major to lose, if u look at those who ban evade and don't, most ban evaders are just ur average sythe user/average joe who ban evade because who the fuck wants to wait 6 months to just get denied again? the wait isn't worth it so its easier to ban evade, that doesn't make them bad people or rule breakers, but nobody has time for that(literally), 6 months is INSANE.


The only people who wait after their first pardons fail are those who have something major to lose, I personally stood to lose my living and a great deal more so ban evasion has never been my style, and it pays to be legitimate.


I think you'll find if you stopped pardons from being 6 months and went to 3, the number of ban evasions and scams would drop DRAMATICALLY.


You guys bitched about DnT, guess how many users I saw online today? FUCKING 385!
We were down to like peaking 200-250 max.

This pardon system time being nerfed will boost the numbers even higher.


Also nobodys scammed or anything and the community & forum is booming again, so what exactly is the negative of DnT atm besides an insanely bigger community/more activity?


Making pardons easier will have a similar effect.

 

[Wonderland]

How about people voting based on what rules the user has broken and not their opinion on the user, that'd be great.

That's already done. We also have to decide if that user is a threat to the community based on the rule that was broken, reimbursements made, effort put into the pardon, and the persons demeanor. Not accounting for ones opinion is asking for a non-human interactive system which isn't possible.

 

[Drimble]

I'll be honest I feel like 6 months is a bit much. I have trouble staying away for a week without at least browsing lmfao.

People see other people refund their victims and still get denied twice being over a year at that point and then they get banned themselves. TheY have to think at that point "why refund just to be turned away.... way easier just to vade. ....."

Just my 2 cents tho

 

[Yousuckv2]

I'll be honest I feel like 6 months is a bit much. I have trouble staying away for a week without at least browsing lmfao.

People see other people refund their victims and still get denied twice being over a year at that point and then they get banned themselves. TheY have to think at that point "why refund just to be turned away.... way easier just to vade. ....."

Just my 2 cents tho

Other people will still get denied and that will still happen regardless of how often they get denied so??

 

[Drimble]

Other people will still get denied and that will still happen regardless of how often they get denied so??

Im not saying your wrong, its gunna happen nomatter what cuz scammers are scammers.
However, what im saying is that the rediculously long wait might push some people that are actually trying to turn it around over the edge into just vading instead. If the wait time is more realistically i think more people would try.

 

[Yousuckv2]

Im not saying your wrong, its gunna happen nomatter what cuz scammers are scammers.
However, what im saying is that the rediculously long wait might push some people that are actually trying to turn it around over the edge into just vading instead. If the wait time is more realistically i think more people would try.

Most of the people getting denied are going to get denied anyways no matter if it's once every year, 6 months, 3 months, month, or week. Shortening the time limit is only going to be useful to scumbags instead of people who it would actually benefit

 

[Pain]

Most of the people getting denied are going to get denied anyways no matter if it's once every year, 6 months, 3 months, month, or week. Shortening the time limit is only going to be useful to scumbags instead of people who it would actually benefit

Lol that is such a lie, your saying only scumbags or bad people get their pardons denied and them getting denied is never going to change?

That is so not true, I personally was denied once and then let back in, theres a TON of others like that that don't get a pardon through and then eventually do.

Lowering the timeframe will just let those people get back faster, which is good.

 

[LandScape]

Support.
Sounds good

 

[Fire]

I'm actually ok with the system as it currently stands. I get that some people will get discouraged having to wait 6 months between pardons, but really, isn't that on them? If they were denied, it's likely for a good reason. The 6 month timeframe does seem rather arbitrary, but I don't believe it absolutely NEEDS to be changed.

Honestly, any user who isn't a direct threat to the site seems to be able to get DNT. If theyre that desperate to return to Sythe, that route is always open while they wait for pardons.

 

[Yousuckv2]

Lol that is such a lie, your saying only scumbags or bad people get their pardons denied and them getting denied is never going to change?

That is so not true, I personally was denied once and then let back in, theres a TON of others like that that don't get a pardon through and then eventually do.

Lowering the timeframe will just let those people get back faster, which is good.

You weren't banned for your level of offense nor was your first pardon denied because of it. You were banned for a rather minor rule infraction but since you had previous issues staff kept you banned for 6 months. There was never any major risk of you staying banned forever because of a small RSPS dicing scam. Comparing your situation to those of many others - most of whom are repeat offenders - isn't logical.

 

[Dunworry]

Locking as no longer relevant, new system out soon TM